Prior Khyber vs Burton Fish?

[kjl]

So, a friend in Aspen pretty much convinced me that I need to go ahead and get a Burton Fish for the powder. The regular carving board (even a 21cm wide Swoard) just isn't cutting it, and amazingly enough for me the softies on my freeride board are starting to bum me out (as soon as the powder gets ridden out and I want to start leaning the board over everything feels all floppy and stupid; people who ran into me at the first day of the SES at Snowmass trying to carve my freeride deck down Ute Chute can attest to my growing suckage on softies).

The Fish looks like the ideal situation: sidecut centered on the bindings so assumably you could still carve (kind of) a little bit in chop or soft groom back to the lift, but you can ride with your weight centered and still ride powder. Obviously you would not be using it to carve down something steep in hard-snow conditions.

My main two issues I see are:

1) Stupid 3-hole pattern is teh suxx0r.

2) Sidecut radius is really, really small.

Anybody know how the Khyber is compared to the Fish? Is the sidecut also centered on the location of the bindings? How well does it float? I don't care if it's "as floaty as the Fish" as I've never actually ridden the Fish - I just care that it floats at pretty slow speeds if my weight is centered on both feet. How does it handle the chop after everything has gotten tracked out?

Thanks!

[gdboytyler]

Originally posted by kjl

My main two issues I see are:

1) Stupid 3-hole pattern is teh suxx0r.

2) Sidecut radius is really, really small.

Anybody know how the Khyber is compared to the Fish?

Get the O-Sin 4807. 4-hole pattern, bigger sidecut (9.5m), carves better, handles powder and crud better. There have been plenty of raves in BOL about the 4807.

If you still want the Fish or Khyber, check out the local BOL Fish advocate's reviews of both boards. Some of the best written reviews that I've read about the Fish, Khyber and heli-boarding.

http://www.wigglesworld.klebos.com/sports/snowboard/reviews/fish/index.asp

[Jim]

My seasons done (clavicle) and I have a 156 Fish to sell. I'm in Santa Cruz for a p/up or short ship.

[tpalka]

Hey Ken! I have no experience with softies, but have been trying to enjoy powder on my custom Donek -- the 23cm waist twin-tip.

Anyways, I heard it said that the Prior Pow-Stick is an awesome board -- that it is amazing in powder, and that it also carves quite well. I cannot attest to it personally, but it might be worth your time to investigate it some... Others on this forum will probably have a more definite opinion on the subject :)

http://priorsnowboards.com/boards_powstick.php

Hope this helps,

tom.

[Guest Randy S.]

Ken,

If you want to try out a 4807, mine is collecting dust at my cabin. I'm done for the season and you are welcome to try it out any time. You couldn't possibly do any damage to it that I haven't already done. Let me know if you want to give it a shot. Its the big one, which will mean bigger turns for you, but you definitely won't have to worry about float!

It looks like I'll be up there this weekend if you want it. Let me know.

I'd choose the Khyber over the Phish for a number of reasons. #1, its not burton. #2 Its a mfg that makes carving boards, #3 it has 4 holes/binding so no add'l base plates.

I also think the Prior split swallow (that sounds somewhat suggestive if you read it fast) sounds like an awesome board that I'd love to have in my quiver if $ weren't an object.

[JoelP]

I am assuming you are talking about Joey. Well he has tried everything under the sun since he basically rides every day of the damn season and he happens to be up in Canada on his yearly trek heli-boarding right now on his Fish. He talked me into getting one and then I've let 2 friends use mine who then immediately went out and got one for themselves.

If you are a friend of his then you know he speaks what he knows and what he knows is usually pretty darn right.

yes it sucks that it is a Burton, that it has a 3 hole pattern and all but they are on e-bay for $225 and they do the job very very well

Joel

FYI, I had a Rossi Undertaker (Swallowtail), Nitro PowderGun (Swallowtail), F2 Swallowtail. Now I ride just the Fish on powder days.

[kjl]

Heh, actually it was Walter, who was test-driving your board, Joel :P He really, really liked it in the powder.

Thanks for the responses guys - I think I still need to do more research. I don't think I'm that interested in the big split-tail powderboard thing so much - I don't really ride huge untouched powder fields on glaciers - I'm more about a few runs through untouched powder and then the rest on tracked up chop or winding through the trees.

[gdboytyler]

Originally posted by kjl

I don't think I'm that interested in the big split-tail powderboard thing so much - I don't really ride huge untouched powder fields on glaciers - I'm more about a few runs through untouched powder and then the rest on tracked up chop or winding through the trees.

The only powder specific boards I've ridden have been the O-Sin 4807 168 cm and Burton Fish 156 MD. I bought and rode the Fish first. After riding the 4807, the Fish went back on EBay. I've ridden both boards in separate 20" powder days at Mammoth. If you've been to Mammoth, you'll know how fast the powder gets hacked up.

The 4807 is super versatile. The best board I've ridden in powder, chop and moguls. The 4807 and Fish are equals in the trees. According to Nils, the local BOL swallow tail expert, the 4807 doesn't even qualify as a "real" swallow tail. Length is too short and the split tail is too short.

At $100 for a new 4807 168 cm on EBay, it's just about the best deal going on in the snowboard world.

[philw]

Originally posted by kjl

Anybody know how the Khyber is compared to the Fish? Is the sidecut also centered on the location of the bindings? How well does it float? I don't care if it's "as floaty as the Fish" as I've never actually ridden the Fish - I just care that it floats at pretty slow speeds if my weight is centered on both feet. How does it handle the chop after everything has gotten tracked out?

[/b]

To answer the question, yes I do know, having ridden both a fair amount in heli terrain. I wrote some stuff on the Fish a year or two back here, and there's a link on that page to some stuff from this season on the Kyhber.

On your specifics... I didn't look close enough to see where the sidecut's centered, but I think it's on the stance, if you see what I mean. You can check that in the shop I guess. It feels more floaty than the Fish as you might expect, although that's not necessarily a positive thing. I ride hard boots centered as marked (which on the Fish is slightly back by design). "Float" isn't really the same issue with these boards as with trad designs - yoy ride lower, but they work brilliantly anyway.

Having ridden a slalom board in heli terrain I think the problem there is more width and therefore stability rather than float. I don't care how far in the snow I am (so long as I can breathe every so often), but keeping a race board level is hard. Landing jumps is also hard because the stiffness makes the transition rough and the narrowness makes it hard to balance. I think. All that said, with trad design boards, you need to go big. The Fish stuff just works differently in the snow.

If you're paying the pilot you don't ride much chop, but I've ridden the Fish in tracked out chicanes which you use to exit some runs. It's much easier in those conditions than a trad (wide) powder board. I think this is simply becase it's no so wide so I don't have so much overhang (that is, board sticking out beyond where my feet stop). This is the opposite problem of most of my bling bling boarding bretheren. But then they're mostly sitting on their arses wondering what happened anyway.

I carry a Fish with my race board these days.. two boards is all I can manage to lug around. I ride the race board any day when there's a base, the Fish when it's bottomless.

Here's a Kyhber shot..

[D.T.]

Just my $0.02, but you should also consider a Rad-Air Tanker. I had mine in 12" of fresh stuff at Wolf Creek and the board was everything I could have hoped for plus more! Little speed was required to make the board planed out (182cm and I was set forward on the board). The board flat out rails!

The Tanker also does well on the groomers.

[JoelP]

Sorry Ken I didn't know that was you asking. You feel better?? We missed you on that last day.

Anyway after you left Sat. we hit the trees and Wally was still on my Fish. I had a hard time staying with him in the really tight stuff. That was where I think the Fish ruled. So with that said here are some things to think about.

Where exactly would this board go at any time or most of the time.

I've had and still have Swallowtails and although I have not ridden the Rad-Air Tanker, the boards have been in my house and used by others. Same goes for the O-Sin. Actually one friend does have both the O-sin and the Fish.

All of these are great powder boards and will work for anyone. It comes down to what and where they'll be used and by who. If I was powder riding only on the open runs or big bowls and then riding the groomed I would probably get the Rad-Air as it can really scream in the open and carve real hard too. But there is no way I could go where Wally was taking me on West Buttermilk and keep up with the length of the Rad-Airs. He was able to throttle that 156 Fish through some super tight stuff and find these unbelievable stashes. My 164 F2 even set back all the way was a bit to handle in those really tight spots. The O-Sin from my visuals, again I have not been on one, but it too rips powder as does my F2 Swallow and others. My friend from Beaver Creek found the O-Sin to rip the Vail Bowls but he now prefers the Fish because it rips too but he has an easier time in the really tight trees at Beaver Creek.

I have no knowledge of the Prior board other than I hear it is a bit stiffer than a Fish.

All that crap said I believe you can not go wrong with any of these boards some work better in the wide open and I believe the Fish works better in the trees BUT they all work in any of those situations. If I was to travel anyplace at anytime I would grab the Fish over my F2 Swallow because I know it works in the wide open and I know if I have to get in tight trees it works there too.

Good luck with your choice as you really can't go wrong with any of the advice in this thread..it's all good!!!!!

I'm getting a second Fish because it seems that when people visit me they will not give me back my Fish :-(((((.

See you next year???????

Joel

[jdgang]

Well I dont live anywhere close that has the powder that you guys are talking about but jersey was blessed with a couple of 12"+ days that I was able to get first tracks on . I have a 160 fish which by burtons standards is suppose to be "big" for my size 5'6" 170lbs. First I love this board and I ride softies on it . In the "pow" this boards is the best I have ever ridden. Used to ride a kelly 171 which I still would bring out if I didnt get the fish. If I let the board do what it was built for it turns on a dime and is effortless. I also did get to ride it on hardpack/packpowder and that where I found one its faults. I found that if you dont move the bindings up one notch from the refernce stance it loses some of the quickess on the turns but once they are moved up I would try my hard boots on it cause I can carve on it very well.

[TEAMFUN]

I like my Fish 160...I ride in stiff softies on it.:D

[kjl]

Originally posted by JoelP

Sorry Ken I didn't know that was you asking. You feel better?? We missed you on that last day.

Man, I tried to call Walter Sunday morning to have him pick me up so I could ride with you but my voice had given out completely! I wouldn't have even been able to whisper into the phone! I eventually had to walk to the nearest hotel with a pad of paper and a pen and get them to call me a cab to the airport. Dealing with airport security, calling an airport shuttle back in CA, etc., etc. was all a freakin disaster as I was coughing, sneezing, and couldn't actually speak. Looks like I missed out an a beautiful day, too, though I imagine it was probably too soft to carve. I'm no longer sick (and wasn't even really that sick Sunday) but my voice is pretty much completely shot.

See you next year???????

Yeah, you know it! I love it out where you guys are, and all the locals are fun to ride with ;)

I think I will probably end up with a Khyber, just judging from how I like to ride, and where the board will be riding most of the time. I don't need a super-ultra turny board for the trees as I mostly ride gladed out stuff that isn't so technical. And I don't think I need a big gun as I won't be riding the untracked bowls so much as chop and glades (though you all have me seriously looking at the O-Sin now).

And as much as I'd like to reward Burton for making an actually innovative snowboarding product (kind of like if Joel Schumacher made a decent movie you'd almost want to spend 10 bucks to encourage him to suck even less the next time), the 3-hole thing really is pretty much a deal-killer.