forward lean adjust instead of heal or toe lifts

[VWBrian]

first post here.

Picked up some older head strato and burton steppin bindings from Dennis at White pass WA. Thanks Dennis. 1st day out last Sunday front leg quad was killing me. I usually ride soft boots with no forward lean on high backs. Hardboots have a lot of forward lean. I adjusted stance angles and no change for quad soreness. Modded bindings to intec heals and added some toe risers on the front foot and heal riser on rear foot changed stance angles to 51 and 48 from 60 and 55,  Put on boots and could feel the same quad pain. So I took the front boot and adjusted forward lean all the way back and left the rear foot with lots of forward lean and put them back on. Leg pain is now gone on carpet test. Will be riding this weekend Sat/Sun to test it out. Anyone else just mod the boot lean instead of the bindings?

[SunSurfer]

I ride with front toe lift, rear foot heel lift and the cuff my front boot set near vertical, with minimal movement allowed by the spring system. I currently ride UPZ RC10S but had Head Stratos Pros set up the same way before the shells cracked from use and age. However, I ride at around 60 degree angles and weight the edges more with the sides of my legs/feet.

Boot and binding setup has to complement  YOUR riding style. It should also be comfortable. Hopefully you'll get comments from people whose style is similar to yours. 

Welcome to the community, if your experience is like mine you're about to make some new friends.

[philw]

I have Head SPs and I set the front all the way upright, and the back all the way cranked forward. So that's three of us. I use a small (F2 little wedge) 1-degree toe lift and larger (F2 other wedge) heel lift and 45 degree parallel. Other boots rode differently - I rode flat it most of them, but these definitely needed the wedges.

The forward lean on all the boots I'be used have tend to follow this same pattern. You can tell if the front is leaning too far forward because you can't quite pressure the front edges correctly. I can't remember what out-of-alignment back felt like - possibly that's leg pain, as the reason the back is cranked over is to make the stance comfortable.

I'd say that this is all fairly normal - F2 bindings ship with those shims, and most people who use them will probably use them this way. I would not modify boots for lean - that's better done on the bindings in my view. Once you have it dialled you can forget about it. Just make sure if you move the bindings around that you put them back in the right place. And if the boots slip into "walk mode" then this goes to cock and it feels a bit funny until you notice.

[ursle]

Welcome, you don't mention how far your feet are apart, the amount of lift underfoot will be determined by the distance between feet, if you are 18" apart, not so much lift under the front toe or the rear heel, if you're 22" apart, more lift.

Most riders ride with the front more upright than the rear, most riders find the front leg burns when it's leaned to far forward.

Canting and lift are different for everyone.

The boot cuffs can be "canted" slightly, if you are pronated or supinated, adjusting the cuffs to the natural angle of your shin to your foot is simple. Canting the bindings is different, canting the bindings moves your whole body in whichever direction you cant, I cant my forward foot outward so that I have to get my body slightly off the board before my rear edge engauges, for cat tracks and flats.(eliminates that headed for the woods feeling)

All that matters is that you adjust your bindings to allow you to get the board as high on edge as possible, on skis it's simple, on a board you have physical limitations, and cants and lifts allow you to fold yourself into position.

On soft snow you can cheat, on hard snow and ice, getting into a "balanced" position to get the board vertical is critical. 

 

 

[Jack M]

Welcome @VWBrian!  Only adjusting boot forward lean usually isn't enough for most people.  Even if you could achieve zero forward lean in the cuff, the boot sole is ramped forward. I'm glad you thought to modify your bindings, this is common and it allows you to use a slightly wider stance for better stability.  There's more reading on this and other technique subjects here: http://alpinesnowboarder.com/tech-articles/

Good luck!

[Buell]

Your goal is to find a balanced stance in carving position where you are best able to switch edges on both toe and heelside, make micro adjustments during the turn, absorb terrain imperfections, and be able to carve easy or aggressive turns. Your riding style and body mechanics will largely determine your personal set up.

Some people ride with flat bindings so the only adjustment available to them is the boot cuffs.

I have found that I use the binding toe and heel lift (or flat) to control how much pressure I apply to each foot while carving and initiating turns and to make sure my body is in the correct fore/aft position to initiate and then drive through turns.

I use the boot forward lean to put my lower legs in the correct place to initiate turns. In other words, when there is no load on the boot, is your lower leg and lower body in the correct location to initiate your turn without awkward upper body movement? You will possibly have to strike a balance with forward lean between heelside initiation and toeside initiation. You will also need to balance the forward lean to work for both mellower carving and aggressive carving.

[nigelc]

My understanding is that the boot articulation should be roughly set in the centre of your range of motion. Then the bindings are adjusted for cant & lift so that in a "neutral" stance pressure in the cuffs and on the soles is evenly distributed so that on a flat surface at moderate speed the board wants to go straight. Fine tuning can then be done with boot cuff adjustment, necessary because binding cant and lift adjustments are usually in 3 degree increments or similar

If you do it all with the boots you are missing out on flex or extension that may be useful

 

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by nigelc

[MarkJeangerard]

^^

I ride steep so boot forward lean translates to fore/aft pressure pretty directly. More upright front foot equates to faster pressure at the nose. More forward lean on the rear foot equates to quicker tail pressure. 

The more you flatten the stance, the more boot lean will affect edge to edge pressure. 

My experience has been that while boot lean is great for demoing or dialing in a little forgiveness, say, on a powder day, you can quickly remove range of motion. Range that will help you be more able to match whatever the landscape throws at you next. 

[Buell]

26 minutes ago, MarkJeangerard said:

^^

I ride steep so boot forward lean translates to fore/aft pressure pretty directly. More upright front foot equates to faster pressure at the nose. More forward lean on the rear foot equates to quicker tail pressure. 

The more you flatten the stance, the more boot lean will affect edge to edge pressure.

I thought about adding I ride 53/50 to my post above. Yes, lower or higher angles will make a difference in how different set ups affect your riding

[VWBrian]

Thanks for all the replies. I am currently riding an old Airwalk Force67 and just trying to get a feel for hardboot riding. The first day out was fun but my forward lean limited the amount of runs i was able to make. I only was able to adjust stance angles the first day. During the week I made some lifts for the binding and then tried them on and had the same leg fatigue. So once I looked closer at the boot I adjusted forward lean and that seemed to make the board more comfortable to stand on. I am headed back up to the Mt this weekend and should be able to make some more tweeks to the boots and stance angles. I read about the gilmour offset and will try that also. I think the only way to really make any improvements to my stance is to do it on snow. Also my stance is at the narrow end of the board 18 1/4 inches. I can try a wider stance this weekend but will go with what it is set at to start the weekend.

[Buell]

As you touched on, I ride hardboots and softboots with a moderate to high amount of forward lean. Riding it is good, standing on the board it feels awkward. 

My quads would burn like crazy when I first started carving hardboots. It wasn't the set up though, it was the activity.

Boot forward flex can also be pretty important. The harder you can push the boots, the stiffer set up you need. As someone just starting out on hardboots, I expect you will want more flex in your boots, if possible.

[VWBrian]

Just got home from 2 days of riding. Leg pain is gone with the adjustments I made to the boots and bindings. Rode most of the day on Sat and Sunday. Made adjustments to the Stance angles went to far forward 60/60 Deg then went to 54 and 51 felt better, kept the stance width, 18.25 inches, the same for now. I will have to keep working on Stance next season when I have more time. I switched back to Soft boots late in the day on Saturday and it felt very loose. Really am liking the hardboots. the boots will need a bit of fitting to make more comfortable but they are not too bad as I rode a solid 4 hours each day with them. Had to take breaks to go see if I was needed to teach. Had to switch out equipment every 1.5 hours. We only teach in soft boots.