Jutta Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Help - after spending about 20 VERY frustrating days trying to get my Alp to carve, experimenting with angles, cant, even buying new boots, I came across a dirt cheap Factory Prime, thought I'd try that and - surprise! - as of today I can carve!!! Upon inspection tonight it turned out that the Alp is edge-high. Barely, that's why I didn't notice it before, but anyway. Now I have two questions: 1. Can the fact that I can push the corner of a piece of paper about 3/4" under the middle of a truebar placed across the board really make such a difference? Or is it just the fact that the Factory Prime is much softer and has a smaller SCR (>8m) and therefore is simply much easier to maneuver for my 125lbs? 2. What do I do about the Alp? My husband bought it for me a few years back as a hardly-ever-used-bargain: it's the 99/00 model, light blue, with the wolf'd head and was collecting dust at a rental shop. Is it worth spending the money to get it level? Or do I just write it off? Thanks, Jutta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Houghton Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Something is wrong here - you are saying that the Factory Prime is softer than your Alp? It should be the other way around. Edge high is not a terrible thing like it would be on skis, so I can't say why you were having so much difficulty carving, but now you're carving on the FP, why not go back to the Alp and try again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutta Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Chris, thanks for your input - it's nice to know that I'm not the only nut posting on Bomber in the middle of the night... I certainly do not claim to be an expert on anything snowboard, but the 146cm 4.7 190s FP IS softer than the 151cm Alp. The Alp is the the board I learned on - I've never used a soft setup - and I always had trouble to turn the thing, which I assumed was just my lack of technique. But as soon as I got on the FP this morning, everything just felt "right", for the first time ever did I feel in total control about where I'm going. I'm so happy I can't sleep - and I'm calling in sick today so I can get on the slopes again! :D But I simply don't understand how by switching boards I can go from forcing the board around each turn to instant (fist run!) nice, even carves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinpa Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Hey Jutta..... Must be MAGIC..... you know, sometimes things just work! Who knows why!!!!! You aren't the only one up in the middle of the night, but for me it's morning..... I work 3am-9am at my regular job then go up to the mountain to teach for what I'm sure will be a busy holiday Monday. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ-PS Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 I wouldn't call that a regular job....what do you do? BTW I guess there is more than a few of us up at this hour. I'm off to bed, hopefully to get some sleep this time :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinpa Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 I work in Master Control at a TV station..... my hours are Monday 3am-9am, Tuesday, Wedenesday, and Thursday 3am-3pm..... Yeah, the hours pretty much suck, but the good thing is that I get to go up to the mountain on Mondays and Fridays which sure beats being there on the weekends!!! Jutta.... I had an Alp 5.0 .... it was the asym one that had a red wood grain finish on it. I had an Burton M5 prior to that one. I guess I got that Alp somewhere around '93 or '94. I liked that Alp so much that I got another one at a huge ski sale (at Giants stadium in NJ) real cheap. Same exact board.... It was funny to look at them side by side. You would never realize how much the sun faded the color on it. (But then again, I guess two boards even though the same model could be a little different). Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Jutta, the first thing might be to try getting a good base grind on it. I had the same problem with my board after being in storage for a few years. The guy said he had to grind the hell out of it, and probably took away a fair bit of it's useful life, but at least it rides again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Houghton Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Ok, it's a really short FP, so it probably is softer than the Alp, personally I;ve never seen one that short, I was going by the longer FPs compared to the Alps. Perhaps the position of your bindings on the board have changed, and that has an effect? But at any rate, who cares? If the FP works for you, ride it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdboytyler Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Originally posted by Jutta What do I do about the Alp? I think you should cut your losses and unload your Alp on EBay. I had an asym Alp 157 with the wood grain deck. I could carve the board well on easy blue runs, but once I tried anything steeper, I would lose the edge. If I tried any Euro-Carves I would lose the edge. When I tried carving short aggressive slalom turns, I had to really pay attention to not fold the nose. Once I switched to Oxygen Protons, my carving improved dramatically. Now, I can actually carve turns on black diamond runs. Some people like Burton Alps. IMHO, they're POS. A friend of mine could actually carve really well on his Alp (until he broke it). He thought the newer Alps were a big improvement over the older versions, but the newer Alps still weren't very durable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Edge high/slight concave base is not that uncommon - as was said before, a good base grind may help this. Alps work fine when used for what they were intended. Agressive carving on moderately steep hard-pack/icy piste is not where these boards will shine. The alps, as I've come to understand it (I've owned two) are better suited for chopped up crud, some off-piste/moderate powder and easy/moderate terrain carving. The board is easy to overpower, esp. if you're used to riding high-end race or freecarve decks. But they're great as beginner/entry level carving decks. Forgiving enough so you don't get your butt kicked during the learning process and still allow you to push 'em some as your confidence improves. I've reserved my alp in the past for those days after new (few inches - not heavy) snow and want to ride both on and off trail. No durabilty issues ever noticed with the two I've owned. If you can get a basic grind done for cheap, why not hang onto it for a back-up? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 I couple of things I can think of - 1) the wider Alp makes it slower to transition from edge to edge and 2) the rounded tail on the Alp keeps you from holding your carves (ie. the tail washes out). I'm assuming the Alp has a rounded tail. I could be wrong on this. I rode a borrowed FP this year. Loved it. I'm looking for one of my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulY Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 The Alps were square tails, the follow up model was the Coil with a round tail. I've had two, the 169 (the series with the animal faces), sold it and picked up the 171 which was a much better board. Still ride it occasionally for taking it easy and not pushing to hard. I have not seen any durability issues with it. Binding position might be an issue, start at the reference marks and shift the bindings back and forth - one at a time - and see if that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Morgul Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 What does edge high mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Houghton Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Edge high means that if you put the board flat on the floor the edges touch but the base does not. Ideally the edges should be slightly (1/2 degree) bevelled so that when the board is flat on the floor the base touches and the edges do not. Again there is some personal preference here, this is not as critical as it would be for skis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_stoll Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Hey, I've got a base-high Alp, maybe we could get our boards together... ;-) Sadly, mine is so worn that its no longer even base-grindable - the guys at the local shop made a single, light pass over their finest stone and chickened out. (The edges need some work, but w/ the base as convex as it is, taking anything off of the edges will make it look much like a canoe. On the plus side, it doesn't often catch an edge!! :-) Grind it flat and try it again - I loved my Alp and am sorry to see it go - great for lazy carves on moderate slopes (as long as you don't get too aggro on the nose or the edges), and skids the steep stuff w/ the best of 'em. Actually does reasonably well in moguls too! (carving ice isn't its strong suit though...) Don't give up on it yet though - its a fun little board if you're a lightweight and have the subtlety to ride it w/o overpowering it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutta Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 ...since that seems to be the general consensus. But where? Yes, I followed the thread about this subject a little while ago, but none of those suggestions are even remotely close to my normal habitat. I live in Colorado Springs and board in Summit County. Any suggestions? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdboytyler Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Won't a good base grind cost around $30? An Alp 5.0 probably goes for $50 on EBay. So, you could concievably say you save $80 by putting your board up for sale on EBay. You could get an Oxygen Proton 149 for $50 to $60. It will easily outcarve your Alp. But I suppose the Proton 149 would be about the same as your FP. You could get an O-Sin 4807 (168cm) for $100 that will put the Alp to shame on the groomed, the bumps and the powder. You could spend the money on getting your Factory Prime tuned up at the end of the season. But then again, I felt guilty when I sold my Alp. I almost felt that I should just give it away. But greed got the better of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutta Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Honestly, before it goes to Ebay, I'd rather give it away. And about the Proton - I have a new one of those that I haven't even used yet because my old Burton bindings don't fit and I haven't found any reasonably priced compatible ones yet. I guess the Alp just frustrated me. And stubborn as I am I don't want to accept that it's all my fault that I can't get the %$#@ thing to carve. But watch the classifieds: if a base grind doesn't help, someone will get a free board pretty soon...;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulY Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Originally posted by Jutta And about the Proton - I have a new one of those that I haven't even used yet because my old Burton bindings don't fit and I haven't found any reasonably priced compatible ones yet. All you need is a set of 4x4 retention discs, available from any Burton dealer or just ask here, someone will have an extra set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutta Posted February 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 All you need is a set of 4x4 retention discs Yes, but.... while an extra set of discs would indeed allow me to ride it, I admit to being lazy. I want to be able to switch boards without having to remount bindings, hence the eventual need for an extra set of bindings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 are decent boards for crud busting glad to hear that the FP is working out, I think that the prime is way better board and the narrow waist might be better suited for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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