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Another "what should I buy" advice request


kawiboy

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On 9/27/2017 at 7:57 AM, Technick said:

I think the F2 RS are better for EC. It's better to run flat, no cant, no lift and soft lateral flex.

 

http://www.alpinecarving.com/ec.html

So I have bindings narrowed down to the F2 Intec RS and F2 Carve RS. From what I've read in the forums that are older, guys have run the Intec RS for EC with minimal problems albeit being stiffer yet somewhat flexible at least. I've read that it's best to get the Bomber Fin-Tec heels vs the F2 Intec heels, so I'm planning on the Fin-Tecs if I go the step in route. However, I just read another post that you can get the Carve RS and then buy all the appropriate Intec parts and can completely convert them to step ins. Keep in mind I'm 205lbs so I have weight to "flex the less than flexible parts" if that makes any sense. Is the base plate lower and more flexible on the carve than the intec? If that's the case, it seems better to get the standard bail carve RS then convert em to step in for "the best of both F2 worlds", plus I'd have the parts for both and can choose what I want depending on the vert of the hill. Also, since I have my Burton Prime, would the 3D discs in my Burton step in bindings work on the RSs? Thanks.

Edited by kawiboy
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So there isn't a 3D disc option for the F2s? I'm planning to change my board late this year or next year so I wanna be able to use new bindings with the old board for a little while. So if I went to the Ti Race which is stiffer, wouldn't it stand to reason that it should be similar stiffness with the F2 Intec RS?

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Ti has metal base plate, while RS has plastic base. At your weight, metal is safer. 

At 180, I ride RS for pow, moguls and park, but stiffer bindings for carving. 

If you used Intec on RS, you'd worsen the stress on the plastic base, as all the flex would have to happen there. With bails, some of the movement/flex happens at the bail too. Thus, you'd get the optimal flex and safety with bail version of Ti. 

There is no 3D option for F2. PhilW has explained how to improvise something, in the past...  

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F2 Carve RS with Intec Heel:

2017-10-21 09.06.32.jpg

F2 Intec RS

2017-10-21 09.07.06.jpg

 

The only difference is the metal center disk on the intec RS model... The base plate is pretty much the same.

From F2 web site:

F2 Carve RS`:

"Free carve front lever binding for beginners and advanced riders.
Nearly indestructible, very comfortable and forgiving due to soft
side flex.
more flexible base plate for maximum comfort | extremely sturdy
due to extra thick 5.9 mm stainless steel bails | variable canting
and heel lift "

Edited by Technick
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19 hours ago, kawiboy said:

So there isn't a 3D disc option for the F2s? I'm planning to change my board late this year or next year so I wanna be able to use new bindings with the old board for a little while. So if I went to the Ti Race which is stiffer, wouldn't it stand to reason that it should be similar stiffness with the F2 Intec RS?

Why would you need to change the bindings on your old Burton board, they still work with your new boots?

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This whole flex/lateral flex/stiffness for your weight thing definitely has me confused. I'm sure you've seen it before but these are my bindings posted below. From what I've read about "lateral flex" and not to use intec is the fact that the heel is a solid piece of metal whereas the bail has flex in the rear bail also vs the front bail. It seems as though since my Burton step in bindings actually have 2 bails vs a front bail and rear intec like current models, it would stand to reason that I may already have similar flex to a standard bail binding. I REALLY want step ins but of course concerned about the EC capability. Sorry for beating a dead horse guys. Wanna get the set up right the 1st time. I'm starting to think the best thing for now is to just change the setup for my board and bindings to be more EC, keep saving the money and buy my EC board and bindings together. Hell, if I end up getting a board from WJHolm, there very well may be bindings with it. Or my Burton step ins may just be the ticket even though some say they're junk. 20170919_205302.thumb.jpg.750210ef1fcc554c360b03ce6879e7e5.jpg

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IMHO, Leave the Burton bindings with the Burton board, get F2 bindings with your new EC board later....

Bindings flex for EC is not that much important, the guy that got me into EC (witch is now a very good friend, and local rep for Swoard Snowboards) rides with F2 Titanium Intec witch is supposed to be "too stiff for EC", doesn't seem to limit his EC ability! I changed from F2 Titanium Intec to Carve Intec RS on my EC board because I needed a second pair of binding for my new Coiler Nirvana and wanted to save money on new binding. I found the F2 RS softer and more forgiving, but it's with practice and someone else helping me with my technique that I got better.

My 2 cents about important stuff for good EC:

1st - Technique

2nd - ... technique...

3rd - Boots... (confy with enough flex)

3rd and a half - EC Board

4th - bindings

 

 

 

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I'm 5'9" without boots on. I'll have to pull out my board to check my stance. It's been a while but I know it's relatively narrow. I'll measure later and let you know. I do know I need to go wider, lower my angles, and take the cant and lift plates out. I'm gonna stick with your advice and wait on the bindings and get the board 1st. I'm close enough now to be able to get a new Coiler. I can just put the Burton bindings on a new board with 4x4 discs. I totally agree that technique is the key therefore I will get Intecs after the board since I know I can adapt and make it work. I just got my UPZs heat molded to my feet yesterday at the local store. Worked great and will definitely save me the few "initial" days of pain breaking them in on the slopes. Also, I'm assuming riding an asym with a 21.6cm waist width should be conducive enough for me to develop that technique?

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From center of binding disc to center of disc is 15 3/4".  Ha, so way short from the 20.5" from ground to my knee cap. So definitely a big change there. The best I can do with the Burton discs is 19". The rear binding is made for their lift/cant plate, so the disc isn't set correctly to the tip/tail and side to side. 30° is my new zero.

Edited by kawiboy
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  • 2 weeks later...

So now I'm on Bruce's waiting list to get a Coiler. I'm trying to decide between an EC and Stubby. Versatility is important but I really wanna lock in the Extreme Carving. From what I've read both are excellent. And from descriptions the Stubby is just the older version of EC with more upturned nose. And the EC can be a versatile board also. I've decided to keep my Prime (for now) in case I wanna ride a board with lower scr for tighter turns. I have no doubt I'll be satisfied with both but has anyone really ridden both (even back to back) for a comparison? I've read the Kipstars Stubby review and others EC reviews on how versatile it actually is.

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31 minutes ago, kawiboy said:

So now I'm on Bruce's waiting list to get a Coiler. I'm trying to decide between an EC and Stubby. Versatility is important but I really wanna lock in the Extreme Carving. From what I've read both are excellent. And from descriptions the Stubby is just the older version of EC with more upturned nose. And the EC can be a versatile board also. I've decided to keep my Prime (for now) in case I wanna ride a board with lower scr for tighter turns. I have no doubt I'll be satisfied with both but has anyone really ridden both (even back to back) for a comparison? I've read the Kipstars Stubby review and others EC reviews on how versatile it actually is.

I have both and prefer the EC profile and tip upturn more.  The Stubby has a longer, more rounded nose and larger transition from the sidecut to the tip and tail, resulting in a shorter effective edge than the EC.  Similarly, the nose is more upturned with the Stubby than the EC.  Overall, the EC looks like a slightly more modern design.  Other than those points, how you spec the board with sidecut, length/width, and rider weight overrides any other differences between the EC and Stubby, IMO.  Either way, prepare to be amazed; Bruce's boards hook up like you will not believe.  

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I haven't tried the version 2 Stubby yet.  My favorite board in the mountains is a Coiler EC 175, 22cm wide.  It's very versatile.  I bought it with illusions of EC-ing the whole run, but it doesn't care what kind of turns I put it through.  It rocks.  Floats in soft stuff, digs trenches in very hard packed conditions, etc.  It'll do EC turns for those that know what they're doing, but I'm not there yet.  

If you've seen Ryan Knapton's video "Snowboarding with guys that really really carve", I'm riding a Coiler EC (multi-color jacket) in the opening shot and the 3rd clip.  

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Well, the big thing for me is the versatility AND be able lay hooked up on rails EC. So it sounds like I should just run with the EC and be happier than a pig in s!#t. Just from watching the video under the EC on the Coiler website (quick edge to edge, riding all over, and tight as well as wide EC) sounds like it's the one I need. Corey, what are you running for SCR? Bruce says the 12/13 works well on the 168.

Edited by kawiboy
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I ride the 175cm x 22cm EC Coiler Board with 14/13m sidecut. It's my main goto board, works well in almost anything. ... And I would trust Bruce for the specs, tell him want you want to do and you well get something awesome to do it! But be warned, getting good at EC is a multi season endeavor (for must of us mere mortals)!

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