Aracan Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 I had good results with the flo liners wearing them in the house two or three times for an hour or two each time. Whichever way you go with flo liners, definitely take Beckmann's advice and get them foot-shaped BEFORE you hit the slopes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawiboy Posted October 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) On 9/27/2017 at 7:57 AM, Technick said: I think the F2 RS are better for EC. It's better to run flat, no cant, no lift and soft lateral flex. http://www.alpinecarving.com/ec.html So I have bindings narrowed down to the F2 Intec RS and F2 Carve RS. From what I've read in the forums that are older, guys have run the Intec RS for EC with minimal problems albeit being stiffer yet somewhat flexible at least. I've read that it's best to get the Bomber Fin-Tec heels vs the F2 Intec heels, so I'm planning on the Fin-Tecs if I go the step in route. However, I just read another post that you can get the Carve RS and then buy all the appropriate Intec parts and can completely convert them to step ins. Keep in mind I'm 205lbs so I have weight to "flex the less than flexible parts" if that makes any sense. Is the base plate lower and more flexible on the carve than the intec? If that's the case, it seems better to get the standard bail carve RS then convert em to step in for "the best of both F2 worlds", plus I'd have the parts for both and can choose what I want depending on the vert of the hill. Also, since I have my Burton Prime, would the 3D discs in my Burton step in bindings work on the RSs? Thanks. Edited October 20, 2017 by kawiboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 At 205, you'd be better of with F2 Ti Race, bail version. On Burton 3 hole boards use the Race Plates or Ibex bindings, they are similar in flex to F2. Probably right in between RS and Ti. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) Burton disks do not work on F2 bindings, btw. Edited October 20, 2017 by BlueB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawiboy Posted October 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 So there isn't a 3D disc option for the F2s? I'm planning to change my board late this year or next year so I wanna be able to use new bindings with the old board for a little while. So if I went to the Ti Race which is stiffer, wouldn't it stand to reason that it should be similar stiffness with the F2 Intec RS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 Ti has metal base plate, while RS has plastic base. At your weight, metal is safer. At 180, I ride RS for pow, moguls and park, but stiffer bindings for carving. If you used Intec on RS, you'd worsen the stress on the plastic base, as all the flex would have to happen there. With bails, some of the movement/flex happens at the bail too. Thus, you'd get the optimal flex and safety with bail version of Ti. There is no 3D option for F2. PhilW has explained how to improvise something, in the past... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technick Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) F2 Carve RS with Intec Heel: F2 Intec RS The only difference is the metal center disk on the intec RS model... The base plate is pretty much the same. From F2 web site: F2 Carve RS`: "Free carve front lever binding for beginners and advanced riders.Nearly indestructible, very comfortable and forgiving due to soft side flex. more flexible base plate for maximum comfort | extremely sturdy due to extra thick 5.9 mm stainless steel bails | variable canting and heel lift " Edited October 21, 2017 by Technick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technick Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 ... So if you want to save money and upgrade later, you can start with standard bail F2 Carve RS. You can upgrade later with the Intec heel receiver and Intec or Fin tec heels for your boots. Use the saved cash to get your EC board sooner! ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technick Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 19 hours ago, kawiboy said: So there isn't a 3D disc option for the F2s? I'm planning to change my board late this year or next year so I wanna be able to use new bindings with the old board for a little while. So if I went to the Ti Race which is stiffer, wouldn't it stand to reason that it should be similar stiffness with the F2 Intec RS? Why would you need to change the bindings on your old Burton board, they still work with your new boots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawiboy Posted October 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 This whole flex/lateral flex/stiffness for your weight thing definitely has me confused. I'm sure you've seen it before but these are my bindings posted below. From what I've read about "lateral flex" and not to use intec is the fact that the heel is a solid piece of metal whereas the bail has flex in the rear bail also vs the front bail. It seems as though since my Burton step in bindings actually have 2 bails vs a front bail and rear intec like current models, it would stand to reason that I may already have similar flex to a standard bail binding. I REALLY want step ins but of course concerned about the EC capability. Sorry for beating a dead horse guys. Wanna get the set up right the 1st time. I'm starting to think the best thing for now is to just change the setup for my board and bindings to be more EC, keep saving the money and buy my EC board and bindings together. Hell, if I end up getting a board from WJHolm, there very well may be bindings with it. Or my Burton step ins may just be the ticket even though some say they're junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technick Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 IMHO, Leave the Burton bindings with the Burton board, get F2 bindings with your new EC board later.... Bindings flex for EC is not that much important, the guy that got me into EC (witch is now a very good friend, and local rep for Swoard Snowboards) rides with F2 Titanium Intec witch is supposed to be "too stiff for EC", doesn't seem to limit his EC ability! I changed from F2 Titanium Intec to Carve Intec RS on my EC board because I needed a second pair of binding for my new Coiler Nirvana and wanted to save money on new binding. I found the F2 RS softer and more forgiving, but it's with practice and someone else helping me with my technique that I got better. My 2 cents about important stuff for good EC: 1st - Technique 2nd - ... technique... 3rd - Boots... (confy with enough flex) 3rd and a half - EC Board 4th - bindings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technick Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 What is your current stance width on your Burton board? How tall are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawiboy Posted October 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I'm 5'9" without boots on. I'll have to pull out my board to check my stance. It's been a while but I know it's relatively narrow. I'll measure later and let you know. I do know I need to go wider, lower my angles, and take the cant and lift plates out. I'm gonna stick with your advice and wait on the bindings and get the board 1st. I'm close enough now to be able to get a new Coiler. I can just put the Burton bindings on a new board with 4x4 discs. I totally agree that technique is the key therefore I will get Intecs after the board since I know I can adapt and make it work. I just got my UPZs heat molded to my feet yesterday at the local store. Worked great and will definitely save me the few "initial" days of pain breaking them in on the slopes. Also, I'm assuming riding an asym with a 21.6cm waist width should be conducive enough for me to develop that technique? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technick Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 A good starting point for stance width is, when standing up, the distance between the floor and the center of your knee cap. I'm 5,11" and I have a 19,5" stance width. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawiboy Posted October 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) From center of binding disc to center of disc is 15 3/4". Ha, so way short from the 20.5" from ground to my knee cap. So definitely a big change there. The best I can do with the Burton discs is 19". The rear binding is made for their lift/cant plate, so the disc isn't set correctly to the tip/tail and side to side. 30° is my new zero. Edited October 22, 2017 by kawiboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technick Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Try 18" first, then 19", ... 20". It's going to be a big step from 15 - 3/4" to 20,5", you will probably hate it... Going slowly will help you find the sweet spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawiboy Posted October 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Oh yeah it's a big jump at 19". Just put the boots on and stepped in. Holy crap, especially with the cant plate out. So with the fancy new UPZ RC10s...is there really any reason to keep my Reactors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 I'd keep the old boots until you've had 3 or 4 successful days on the new boots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawiboy Posted October 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 So now I'm on Bruce's waiting list to get a Coiler. I'm trying to decide between an EC and Stubby. Versatility is important but I really wanna lock in the Extreme Carving. From what I've read both are excellent. And from descriptions the Stubby is just the older version of EC with more upturned nose. And the EC can be a versatile board also. I've decided to keep my Prime (for now) in case I wanna ride a board with lower scr for tighter turns. I have no doubt I'll be satisfied with both but has anyone really ridden both (even back to back) for a comparison? I've read the Kipstars Stubby review and others EC reviews on how versatile it actually is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freezer Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 31 minutes ago, kawiboy said: So now I'm on Bruce's waiting list to get a Coiler. I'm trying to decide between an EC and Stubby. Versatility is important but I really wanna lock in the Extreme Carving. From what I've read both are excellent. And from descriptions the Stubby is just the older version of EC with more upturned nose. And the EC can be a versatile board also. I've decided to keep my Prime (for now) in case I wanna ride a board with lower scr for tighter turns. I have no doubt I'll be satisfied with both but has anyone really ridden both (even back to back) for a comparison? I've read the Kipstars Stubby review and others EC reviews on how versatile it actually is. I have both and prefer the EC profile and tip upturn more. The Stubby has a longer, more rounded nose and larger transition from the sidecut to the tip and tail, resulting in a shorter effective edge than the EC. Similarly, the nose is more upturned with the Stubby than the EC. Overall, the EC looks like a slightly more modern design. Other than those points, how you spec the board with sidecut, length/width, and rider weight overrides any other differences between the EC and Stubby, IMO. Either way, prepare to be amazed; Bruce's boards hook up like you will not believe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 I haven't tried the version 2 Stubby yet. My favorite board in the mountains is a Coiler EC 175, 22cm wide. It's very versatile. I bought it with illusions of EC-ing the whole run, but it doesn't care what kind of turns I put it through. It rocks. Floats in soft stuff, digs trenches in very hard packed conditions, etc. It'll do EC turns for those that know what they're doing, but I'm not there yet. If you've seen Ryan Knapton's video "Snowboarding with guys that really really carve", I'm riding a Coiler EC (multi-color jacket) in the opening shot and the 3rd clip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawiboy Posted October 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) Well, the big thing for me is the versatility AND be able lay hooked up on rails EC. So it sounds like I should just run with the EC and be happier than a pig in s!#t. Just from watching the video under the EC on the Coiler website (quick edge to edge, riding all over, and tight as well as wide EC) sounds like it's the one I need. Corey, what are you running for SCR? Bruce says the 12/13 works well on the 168. Edited October 30, 2017 by kawiboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 I think mine is 14/15. Too big for narrow local runs unless they're steep. Once it's steep enough, it'll turn a REALLY tight arc if you ask it. Having said that, do whatever Bruce suggests. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technick Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 I ride the 175cm x 22cm EC Coiler Board with 14/13m sidecut. It's my main goto board, works well in almost anything. ... And I would trust Bruce for the specs, tell him want you want to do and you well get something awesome to do it! But be warned, getting good at EC is a multi season endeavor (for must of us mere mortals)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technick Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 We should start a thread for those of us working on EC, to exchange ideas and tips... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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