Putting it out there: board suggestions?

[markbvt]

Hey all. 

 

Little bit of history: I've been riding for over 20 years, started in softies with three-strap bindings, did lots of carving on my old Kelly Slopestyle freeride board, switched to hardboots and the usual succession of asym slalom board, symmetrical slalom and GS boards, and eventually wound up on a Prior 180 custom GS board, very stiff with lots of camber, super fun board, to the extent that I spent less and less time riding other boards. Eventually I became increasingly frustrated with crowds/etc, to the point that I would drive up to Stowe early in the morning to be there when lifts opened at 7:30, ride till 9ish when the human slalom gates started crowding the mountain, then go home. A season or two of that, plus a succession of very cold but not very snowy winters, combined with a lack of people to ride with, pretty much got me out of snowboarding for the better part of a decade.

 

But this season I've started to get back into it. I still love that Prior 180, but having been confronted with similar situations (crowded slopes, soft/uneven conditions, etc) I've realized that I really need to get myself on a versatile modern board when conditions no longer suit a race board. But I have two problems with typical current all-mountain/freeride boards: too wide, and too flexy. I'm 6'4"/260, but my feet are only size 11 and I prefer relatively steep stance angles (upwards of 45 degrees; I ride about 60 degrees on alpine boards), so even the 250mm waist on my old Kelly Slopestyle is a little on the wide side. I've got an elderly Burton Supermodel 68 that works okay, but it could definitely stand to be stiffer, and a damper ride would be nice too.

 

I'm thinking one of the current boardercross-inspired boards might be a good choice. Coiler BXFR, Donek Saber, Incline, or Phoenix, etc (I'd probably order any of the above with a 240mm waist). I'll leave the hyper-priced Euro brands out because this board will be directly competing with motorcycle farkles, and if it costs too much it will lose.

 

Am I overlooking any good choices? Anyone here own any of these? How do they stack up in stiffness, ride quality, and edge hold? (For what it's worth, I'd stick with my hardboots but use my old Burton Step-In Plate bindings, which are a little flexier than the Cateks I use on the Prior. Softboots have gotten a lot better, but I still can't stand strap bindings.)

 

Thanks for your input -- and for reading this far!

 

--mark

 

[purpletiesto]

Stiff coiler angrry 160?

[markbvt]

Stiff coiler angrry 160?

 

That's another narrow alpine board. Again, I'm looking for a more versatile all-mountain board, just one that still carves well.

 

--mark

[pokkis]

why you would not order that Agnry with 23cm center width if you want wide board?

[That Guy...]

You're not riding on some 500' landfill in Michigan, so I think a 160, regardless of stiffness, is on the short side for your weight.  I'm 170 lbs, and when I was in VT over Christmas, had no problems managing a 168cm Kessler on crowded days.  Add to the crowd the garbage conditions you guys had back then, and I totally understand what you're up against and the mountains you're riding at.  Coiler and Donek can build you something custom because I think whatever you find off the shelf is going to be a compromise.  

 

What about a BX style board scaled up to 175- 185cm with a waist width that'd match your boot size/ stance angle requirements, built stiff enough to handle your weight, a SCR in the 11- 15m range, maybe throw some metal in the mix to help keep the board quiet on the rough stuff, and some mild decamber at both ends to help with low speed/ close quarters maneuverability?  I don't build boards, but if I were in your boots, that's what I'd run by Sean at Donek or Bruce at Coiler and let their expertise make the final decision on what will work.

[slopestar]

^great advice... Working with Sean on my last two boards and one for the girlfriend has resulted in the perfect boards for conditions

[markbvt]

What about a BX style board scaled up to 175- 185cm with a waist width that'd match your boot size/ stance angle requirements, built stiff enough to handle your weight, a SCR in the 11- 15m range, maybe throw some metal in the mix to help keep the board quiet on the rough stuff, and some mild decamber at both ends to help with low speed/ close quarters maneuverability?  I don't build boards, but if I were in your boots, that's what I'd run by Sean at Donek or Bruce at Coiler and let their expertise make the final decision on what will work.

 

Yeah, I was thinking along similar lines, except with a board around 167-170cm and a shorter SCR for tighter turns. Part of the point would be to have the board still be fun when the conditions start to get bumpy and require quick turns.

 

And as for a wide Angrry, seems to me a wide alpine board would defeat the purpose. I'm looking for something that will carve well on groomers but will also work well when conditions get soft and choppy, and even in powder (within reason). Much like my old Kelly Slopestyle did, back when I was younger and skinnier. :) That's why I was thinking of a modified freeride shape, just with a stiffness that's somewhere between the Kelly/Supermodel and a typical race board.

 

--mark

[purpletiesto]

Just email Prof. Varsava, or Sean.

170 am vsr 11-13m scr with 16mm of taper in 21.5 width (you don't need to go wide for what you describe) and maybe a gradual nose for this powder you talk of, built for your weight. Doesn't seem like a huge conundrum,you might be over thinking it a little.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I have a 21 cm waisted Coiler Nirvana that I ride everywhere, including big bumps. It works so well as an AM board for me that I've relegated my Coiler AM to rock board duty. I ride 55/50 with 27.5 Raichles.

[NWboarder]

Love my 178 prior for what you are talking about but may be too soft for you... 

 

How about the F2 El Diablo. My buddy Loves his for do-all in any condition and he rails on it. 

http://www.yyzcanuck.com/store/F2-El-Diablo.html

[BlueB]

Ah man there are so many that would fit the bill... Priors ATV, 4WD, WCRM wide... Coilers AMT, wide Stubbies and Chubbies and Nirvanas... Doneks AX... Customs from those 3... ElDiablo... Cult... Steepwater...

[BlueB]

Oops double post.

Edited February 14, 2015 by BlueB

[markbvt]

Hmm. That F2 El Diablo looks like a really interesting choice. And it's not too expensive. Thanks for the tip!

 

I'll definitely have to email Sean and Bruce too when I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on this.

 

--mark

[scrapster]

Maybe BlueB can remark on how the sidecut feels on the ElDiablo, but I've found that anything below a 10 scr will likely feel pretty turny and potentially tiring--especially in hard boots. (Don't get me wrong, I love turny boards, but they can be limiting.) I imagine many in this forum would even say don't do below 11 or 12. Just something to think about when ordering custom. I'm sure Bruce and Sean will get the flex right, but sidecut choice seems to be a mix of your predominant riding conditions and personal preference.

[RCrobar]

Hello

 

When working with Bruce I had a hard time picking a SCR as I didn't have a good feel for how a metal board or a board with a Variable SCR would turn.  Bruce had already explained to me that metal boards turn WAY tighter than Glass boards and that I should forget about my past experiences with SCR numbers and Glass Boards.

 

What helped me was to do a YouTube search of guys riding Coilers.  When I found a guy making turns about the size and rhythm I was looking for, on YouTube, I sent the video link to Bruce.  Bruce knew the rider, the board and the SCR.  I too was looking for a turny board.  Bruce nailed the SCR right on, what worked for me was a 10/12/11.  For me this proved to be a fun turny SCR for busy or tighter areas but also pretty good at bigger turns when letting the board run.

 

Cheers

Rob  

Edited February 24, 2015 by RCrobar

[markbvt]

Maybe BlueB can remark on how the sidecut feels on the ElDiablo, but I've found that anything below a 10 scr will likely feel pretty turny and potentially tiring--especially in hard boots. (Don't get me wrong, I love turny boards, but they can be limiting.) I imagine many in this forum would even say don't do below 11 or 12.

 

 

True enough, but in this case I actually want it to be a turny board. If the conditions are smooth enough for carving bigger turns at higher speeds, I'll be on the Prior 180 anyway, or every so often I might pull out my old Burton FP 5.7-180 (still a fun slalom board to this day). This board in question would come out once things start getting bumped up, or on days when the conditions are really soft and my narrow alpine boards would just have a tendency to dig in.

 

Hmm. Speaking of wider, turnier boards, maybe I should dust off my old Burton Stat 5 and take that out one day, just for giggles.

 

--mark

[AcousticBoarder]

+1 for talking to Bruce or Sean (or both), and you will probably really like a VSR for navigating around the crowds. I have an Incline, but I don't think I am experienced enough to say how it rides and flex. I just know I like it 

[markbvt]

Update: Snowed a fair amount yesterday and overnight, so this morning I took out a board I'd never ridden before, a Burton Triumph 73 (I got it free because I worked on the graphics, but this was during the off-period when I wasn't riding so it sat in the barn collecting dust). Great board in soft conditions. But by 10:30 when the new snow started getting skied off and the trail ended up with mounds of soft fresh stuff interspersed with areas of boilerplate, that board ceased to be fun. It chattered way too much on the hard stuff, especially when transitioning from soft to hard.

 

Also, due to its width I was riding 45/42, and even so the board was sluggish edge to edge. Lower angles would have helped, but even those were too low for me (at one point I actually found myself thinking I should have brought my old PJ asym). I'd really rather keep the angles up in the mid 50s. And the 8.something SCR was TOO turny. 

 

So that El Diablo is looking like a better choice all the time. Or maybe a Donek Axxess or narrow Incline, or a Prior 4WD 169.

 

Decisions, decisions...

 

--mark

[icebiker]

Or maybe a Donek Axxess or narrow Incline, or a Prior 4WD 169.

 

After many years on a Supermodel 174 I moved to hardboots and found they overpowered the ol Burton, so after much research on BOL and with a ton of great input from many on here, I called Sean and ordered an Axxess 172.  I wanted something turny since, like you, I tend to ride narrow east coast trails (VT, NY, etc).  This is the one and only thing I've ever had tailored to me (not even all the suits and bikes I own are tailored to me ;-).  

 

To say Sean nailed it is an understatement.  From the very first turn it felt great.  Damp enough in the nose to cut through the chop, but enough camber in the midsection to hold a good edge, and enough taper to release easily.  Stock VSCR for this length is 10-12 IIRC, but I ordered it with 9-11.  A few years from now as I get better at angulation/turn initiation, I may go for something with a longer SCR, and a longer length, but for now it suits me really well. I have big feet (31 MP) so it was built with a 26cm waist. Back then I was riding shallower angles. I'm now at 55/50 and probably could have gone for a 23.5 waist.  I'll be keeping all these things in mind for my next board, but in the meantime, I can't recommend an Axxess enough for our terrain.  Hope this helps.

[breeseomatic]

Save yourself some money and buy my freeride deck:

 

http://forums.bomberonline.com/index.php?/topic/40843-steepwater-171-steep/

 

171 Steepwater Steep, ~11m side-cut, 25cm waist, very little camber so it's damp, the core is THICK so it's stiff like a carving board.  I believe it has P-Tex sidewalls and top sheet.  It's too stiff for me for a free ride deck, I needed something softer and now I ride it's little brother, a 164.

 

In comparison, the 164 replaces a Burton Supermodel 163 and the Steepwater is about 10x more capable as a carving board.  The bigger radius side-cut and the stiffness and dampness of the board allow me to pull off some really bad impressions of the Pureboarding/Eurocarve style all while being able to slide the board around like a typical freeride.  I have not taken it in the powder, but considering the original purpose of the board, I have no doubt that this can handle the task better than any mainstream board out there. 

[markbvt]

Save yourself some money and buy my freeride deck:

 

http://forums.bomberonline.com/index.php?/topic/40843-steepwater-171-steep/

 

171 Steepwater Steep, ~11m side-cut, 25cm waist

 

Thanks, but way too wide. Sounds like a fun board otherwise though.

 

--mark

[NWboarder]

So Mark, Whats the verdict? What board have you gone with? 

[markbvt]

None yet. I've been riding a few of the boards I already owned to experiment with options, and also try changing stance angles a bit. Last week I took out my old Prior 4WD 179 with Cateks at about 60 degrees; not bad, but at that length it's not a particularly nimble board, and the stance angles put my toes and heels a little too far inside the edge. Next soft-conditions day we have, I'll try it out with my Burton Race Plates at 54 degrees; I expect those bindings and angles will be better suited to that board.

This past weekend, I took out the Prior 180 custom because it hadn't snowed all week apart from a dusting here and there, and I was reminded once again how awesome that board is. It's so confidence-inspiring and stable, and holds an edge like it's on rails. I really want to try a Kessler or other metal board so I can see what all the fuss is about; but from the descriptions I've heard about the way they ride, I expect this Prior is fairly similar (though probably more lively because it's fiberglass and has a LOT of camber). I might have to email Chris Prior and see if he remembers anything about it -- it was a prototype he'd built to experiment with certain features, including lots of camber; I expect he also used plenty of rubber dampening in its construction, and it looks like the nose is slightly decambered. At any rate, I was having so much fun on it that I never bothered to switch to the Factory Prime 5.7 I'd brought along in case of crowds.

 

I'll do a little more experimentation the next few weekends as things warm up, but right now my gut is telling me that something along the lines of a Prior 4WD or Donek Axxess around 165-170, with a waist around 210-220mm and built to my weight with plenty of camber, would probably be a great choice for those softer/more crowded days. 

 

This season has been a huge success for me, first and foremost because it got me back on snow and interested and engaged in snowboarding again, but also because it confirmed that I was on the right track all along in terms of gear and setup. Over the past few weeks I've stopped second-guessing myself and realized that the solution is really a lot simpler than I thought. I don't need anything that's very different; for riding in the sorts of conditions that make the Prior 180 no longer be fun, I just need something a little nimbler and a little less likely to dig in when the snow gets soft.

 

Donek might still rack up another Incline sale though: I got a friend of mine to try out an alpine setup earlier in the season, and he loved the sensation of carving. He had a Burton Republic that he broke a couple of years ago, and switched back to skiing. As much as he liked the alpine snowboard, he was saying that if he was going to pick up a new board, he'd get something more all-mountain oriented, but for the time being wanted to concentrate on improving his skiing. But this weekend, since it hadn't snowed all week (he uses those fat skis and likes the trees and backcountry), I got him to throw his old softboot bindings on my Burton Supermodel 68, and he ended up having a blast. Commented several times that it carved way better than his Republic did, and that he'd forgotten how much fun snowboarding could be. I'd mentioned the Incline to him before as a board that would be ideal for what he likes to do, but when I mentioned it again on the skilift ride, I think he paid a little more attention. :)

 

--mark

[markbvt]

By the way, was meaning to post this earlier and kept forgetting, but here's the current collection. Most of it belongs in a museum.

 

 

Left to right: '94 Burton Kelly Slopestyle, '94 Burton PJ6, '94 Burton Stat 5, '97 Burton Factory Prime 5.7-180s, late '90s Prior custom slalom board (got it cheap heavily used), Burton Supermodel 68 (I forget what year -- first year they were available -- '97 maybe?), late '90s Mistral Sonic 167, 2000ish Prior 4WD 179, Prior 180 custom (looks shorter than the 4WD because it's leaning back), '08ish Burton Triumph 73.

 

I also have this season's model Burton Namedropper 58, but won't be riding it. Not my style of board. But several of my photos were used for the graphics so it's nice to have one on hand.

 

--mark