excarving Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) hello all.... :) http://youtu.be/Mjb5ipg2rg4 Edited January 11, 2015 by excarving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Small remark....your shoulders are facing downhill most of the time...for proper " by the book" EC, shoulders guide the rotation and thus, should precede the turn... check the first vids from Jacques and Patrice from 2002...especially on Patrice's backside you see his shoulder pull the rest of the body into the turn... Remember the main idea is to have upper body and lower body working together, hips "locked". http://extremecarving.com/films/demos/mov/virage_push-pull_j.mov http://extremecarving.com/films/demos/mov/virage_push-pull.mov Nils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 This is not.... wait - what is "bj style" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 lol... I guess BJ does not have the same meaning over there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpletiesto Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Incorrect title? As the focus is on cross-under turns and not rotation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Don't think so. Unless "rotation" and "extreme carving" also mean something completely different in Korea. Cross-under turns are no basis for EC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.free Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Totally not EC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Typically, a cross-under turn would/should involve a more complete separation of upper and lower body movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Hi Erik, how dependent is a 'cross under' on knee work or where the torso faces? Because I've run into two different strict definitions, where (1) you suck up the knees as much asyou can during the transition and extend them out during the turn (aka the extremecarving push-pull) regardless of upper body rotation i.e. torso alignment, or (2) where the torso pretty much faces downhill the entire time while the legs only do the work by swinging out irrespective of how much the knees actually work. Or is it both? Help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Both scenarios described make use of 'cross-under', which is a principle, not a turn. If the snow engagement device moves from one edge to the other by passing under the rider's center of mass, that's cross-under. This can be something as simple as rocking the board from one edge to the other while gliding straight down the fall line. Or more complex, such as a full-rebound medium radius turn across the slope. Generally, cross under involves both rebound, and leg flexion/extension (push/pull, if you prefer). If one wants to make a shorter radius turn, it helps to selectively isolate the upper body mass from the action at the point of contact, and to harness rebound as a means of driving the board from one edge to the other, from one turn to the other, in a shorter time frame. This suggests that at some point in the turn, the torso will not be facing the same direction as the feet. And, getting back to your opening question, there will be articulation at the hip joint, the knees and the ankles, the range of which determined by the size of the turn, variances in terrain, and the amount of rebound on tap. Does that help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Thank you, unfortunately the need for humans and ermm me to classify something as 'this or that' is quite damaging to aspects that can technically be both :) Nonetheless, if I may simplify then a cross-under may have rotation or even counterotation and varied amounts of extension/flexion depending on the the above variables (i.e. size of the turn, variances in terrain, and the amount of rebound on tap). The defining criteria is that I am 'over' the board when changing edges.. or the board is under me. On a personal note, then what the hell am I doing here? youtube.com/watch?v=-KJIAMymeCEI thought this could be considered a cross-over, but then if I'm over the board when changing edge regardless of knee work then it's a cross-through?? Edited January 19, 2015 by michael.a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Nonetheless, if I may simplify then a cross-under may have rotation or even counterotation and varied amounts of extension/flexion depending on the the above variables (i.e. size of the turn, variances in terrain, and the amount of rebound on tap). Yes. The defining criteria is that I am 'over' the board when changing edges.. or the board is under me. Well, not really. It's not a 'moment in time' thing. I could have described that part better. Cross over means the CM moves over/is moving over the board on a parabolic path as the board changes edge. Cross-under, the board moves under/is moving under the CM while changing edge. Both elements (board and CM) are traveling through space, so to speak, but its how they move/are moving relative to one another that matters as to classification. Here's your video embedded. Mostly cross-over, with maybe two edge changes in the latter part of the first segment easing toward cross-under. Definitely not cross-through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) That's what I thought, thank you, I want to create a little table in my mind linking correlations between our actions and how they effect the snowboard and vice versa, of course in a carved turn, so something like: control the radius of the carve = move weight towards the front, center, or tail of the board or modify the angle of the board in relation to the snow and move weight towards the front, center of tail = controls the radius of the carve, quickens or delays initiation of the carve, and modify the pop between turns Just I'm not always sure if I've correctly identified the causes/effects and appropriate definitions :) Edited January 19, 2015 by michael.a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Yrwlkm. Just make more turns, and the discoveries will follow. Definitions only matter when you want to share those discoveries. How you describe things has as much to do with who you speak to, as to what you speak of. Edge tilt= Pferdestärke Board Decamber = Torque Fore/aft Pressure management =brake &throttle. -Vroom- Edited January 19, 2015 by Beckmann AG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2O Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 This is not rotation!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff33 Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 This is not rotation!!! It's only contre rotation..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2O Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 It's only contre rotation..... Yesssssss !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmatic Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) Sorry, I was posting my text on wrong thread. Even if it can be an answer to this thread, I moved content to that tread. Edited March 22, 2015 by snowmatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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