What's the difference...?

[philw]

...About counter-rotation: Does anyone recommend counter-rotation? I think it's universally despised by everyone. The articles on Bomber tend to direct people to face the nose of the board on heelsides, which is a positive rotation.

My understanding of "counter rotation" is that it's an attempt to use conservation of angular momentum to torque the board into a turn. You twist your upper body in one direction and torque the board in the other. Hence it's not a carved turn, it's more akin to the park monkeys kicking their back leg around. I don't think it would work terribly well. Variants include swinging your arms about (your arms will likely move because of conservation of momentum, but it's an effect not a cause).

Note that "CERN French style" doesn't involve counter rotation.

Perhaps obviously, these are simplifications and no one rides in one particular way or the other. If you're riding longer radius turns then you will rotate; in trees or a mogul field you'll likely not.

---

Maybe this is obvious too, but...

I've ridden with a few instructors who're good riders, and clearly a few post here, but the best riders are not generally instructors at all. Schools are not standards bodies, they are just trying to teach beginners a solid foundation to the sport upon which they can build. So they may be useful reference points, but they don't have a huge amount to teach the better riders here in my not-humble opinion.

[SaffainSweden]

SaffainSweden, here is a question for you:

Do you think it would be helpful if the Bomber web site had tech articles on both (or more) techniques?

Absolutely! Especially for those of us stuck in a hard-boot/carving wasteland.

As many guys have already stated in this and other threads, knowing and switching between techniques is a desired skill many riders aspire to. In addition, Bomber bindings are used on boards designed specifically for many different techniques, but only one technique is represented on this web site.

Would this information help a new rider or is it just not necessary?

I think all information helps. Sometimes I have read an article and not really understood it until I have been on the slope and then it clicks.

Thank you for your thoughts. - Thank you guys for all the info!!

Rob

[SaffainSweden]

It looks like this guy relies more on the flex of his board to get him in to the turn. This is what I originally - and to some extent still do - thought of as the main difference betwen EC and "Bomber". The way I understood it was EC uses the body and legs to create the turn but Bomber uses pressure on the board to cause flex and thus turn. I must say the vid looks a pretty functional and fun way of riding. His body position reminds me of skiing.

I've posted this before, but this guy still impresses me. I "think" that this is some kind of French or Swiss style, but I don't know nuthin'. It sure ain't Bomber or EC.

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9LR3pN5mJng?rel=0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

[bruincounselor]

Maybe this is obvious too, but...

I've ridden with a few instructors who're good riders, and clearly a few post here, but the best riders are not generally instructors at all. Schools are not standards bodies, they are just trying to teach beginners a solid foundation to the sport upon which they can build. So they may be useful reference points, but they don't have a huge amount to teach the better riders here in my not-humble opinion.

While your genereal observation may be true; I'm guessing the cause is different. In my short time on the planet I've taught a few activities and every time I take on an instructor role I learn a lot about my own skills. Teaching motorcycling has saved my life - without it I would have made fatal mistakes on more than one occasion. My whitewater paddling skills grew exponentially when I began teaching others basic skills. I have briefly taught snowboarding and I'm not sure it improved my skill (it was a long time ago) - but I wonder if the differences between what the typical beginning snowboarder is looking for (and what the instructor should be providing) and what the typical hardboot rider is doing are so different there may be less parallel. I wonder what someone who taught at the SES would say about this idea?

I have read some of the reference material on this site and I can honestly say I find them confusing. If anyone is interested in writing more articles I support them 100%. Being forced to think about your riding and then translating those ideas into a way that someone else can understand them should be a very powerful learning tool.

[bigwavedave]

Surfstyle...coined by the Purecarve guys, smooth, relaxed, fluid, a mix of race/EC minus the aggression. Some great articles in the 2nd issue of Carving Magazine about the background. Those of us that came into carving from a surf/windsurf background will relate.

http://vimeo.com/10029545

[pogokoenig]

While your genereal observation may be true; I'm guessing the cause is different. In my short time on the planet I've taught a few activities and every time I take on an instructor role I learn a lot about my own skills. .

Very true.

I wonder if the differences between what the typical beginning snowboarder is looking for (and what the instructor should be providing) and what the typical hardboot rider is doing are so different there may be less parallel.

No, it's absolutely the same. It always comes back to the bascis. That's part of the magic in this sport. Has very much Zen in it. Do the basics, focus, leave out unnecessary things. That's it.

[RCrobar]

Below is a link to an archieved CERN web site, some interesting information and helpful animations from years ago.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080120053551/http://club-ski.web.cern.ch/club-ski/snowboard/tutor/frswiss.html

One of my previous posts has been edited as I used the word 'counter' where it should have been 'non', didn't notice this the first time through ... amazing how one word can so easily open a can of worms, this was not my intention.

Cheers