Hello says the new guy!

[Johnny]

Hello everyone! I've been lusting for an alpine board for over a year now, as I don't jump much, or do much jibbing, and I want to go faster. I was looking at the Donek Pilot super package from YYZ, but it seems that's for smaller people than me. I'm 5"11, and in the ~175 lb area (it varies due to time of year by a few pounds). I also saw another place that had some demo Kessler boards and plates for a pretty good deal, obviously more than the Donek. For a newbie, what would the experienced people recommend? I've been carving as well as I can on a 09 Ride Control 158, but I'd like to get a hard boot setup. I'm in the Ottawa area, and most of the hills nearby have more ice than anything else.

So, thoughts? What do you think for a relative newbie who knows the mechanics of how it all works and is looking to take the leap to hardboots?

[lafcadio]

The best advice I can give is to get to a carving event. There are a couple of Pure Boarding events this year relatively close to you.

I cannot stress it enough. It's easy to mistakenly believe that since you're new you may not get much out of an event, but this cannot be further from the truth. I started on hardboots in January 2010 and the biggest mistake and regret of my life (well, my carving life) was missing the 2010 East Coast Expression Session. I only later realized what a HUGE mistake it was after attending weekend events at Berkshire East and then finally the 2012 ECES at Stratton. Can't wait for SES this year!

In terms of looking for a board to start with, I still think it's good advise to start with an All Mountain board (e.g. Donek Axxess or Prior 4WD). It'll be a good board to get the basics of carving in hardboots and will allow you to have lots of fun. When you're ready to move on to a race board or dedicated carver, the AM will still be a good standby for when conditions are not ideal or during the beginning of the season when your carving legs are still coming back.

But do yourself a favor and go to a carving event.

EDIT: oh... and by the way... WELCOME! :D

Edited December 28, 2012 by lafcadio

[Jonny]

Welcome!

First thing I think is to get boots which work, and if you're not used to skiboots and haven't worked much with hardboots the big risk is that you don't go SMALL enough. The boot needs to be snug or it wil really hold you back. A good method is to pul the inner out of the shell and slide your foot all the way into the bare shell. If there's more than about 3cm between your heel and the shell the boot's too big. Typically you'll go about two sizes smaller than your street shoe size - so a US 11.5/EUR45 would likely go into a 27 mondopoint shell. I don't think I'd go with intec heels just yet, although as you get more experience you may want them - they give a much stiffer ride.

Once you have boots you can likely beg a ride from a lot of guys - most of us bring more than one board to the mountain and are usually delighted to have someone try out a spare.

If you're looking to buy, realize that this isn't likely to be your long-term ride, so don't go crazy. Boards which were $850 five years ago are $200 now, lightly used, often with bindings, and they'll be great to get you going, so that you can make an informed decision about your next board. I'd look in the 165-175cm range, with a sidecut from 10.5-12.5m and a waist width around 20cm - a little narrower than most AM boards, but the narrower the board the more likely you are to get comfotable quickly on a true carved heelside, which is the biggest difference between hard and soft boots - heelside is incredibly positive with hardboots.

[NSSage]

I personally think the first step should be boots and plate bindings, I know people who have put them on a stiffer freestyle board just to get used to the feeling of riding at such high angles (you could also crank your soft boot bindings up to a higher angle to get used to it). Some people carve in ski boots but I would strongly recommend some snowboard specific hard boots. Boots often pop up in the for sale section of the forum and you can get a good deal there if you don't want to spend the money on new boots, However, its very important that you get the right size, they should fit pretty tight and your toes should be touching the front (but not so much that its really painful, it will hurt a little bit at first though). You should measure your foot to find you mondo size if you don't already know you can search on google a guide for it its just your foot length in centimeters.

As far as boards go if you buy an all mountain board it should be easier to start and you can find great boards for good prices in the for sale section of the forum. It really depends on what you want for a board read up on the board you are buying or try to test one out if they do any demos near you. Board choice is all up to you and what you want, when I started to learn I bought a new 175 race board with intec bindings I would not say I recommend this but I did learn very fast :P

Oh and welcome!

[Claude]

Here's an event not too far from you...

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?37773-Pureboarding-Event-Mont-Blanc-Quebec-%96-February-9-10-2013

And welcome :)

[TLN]

I second the idea of All-mountain board. It's not what softie allmountains are. It's tons of fun!

Boots are on a 1st place, try to get best: deeluxe 700 with thermoflex or UPZ. But likely you still not sure, will you get into carving or not: you either get everything used, ride it for 1 season, and get boots new, and all the rest. If you can pay for new boots right now - do it, you won't regret.

[Johnny]

I'll hopefully be attending the PureBoarding event at Mont Blanc in February, if everything works out.

Also, I've got my softie bindings at the highest angles I can get right now, I can hardly ride switch anymore, lol!

Edited December 28, 2012 by Johnny

[SEJ]

I agree about the AM board. Used 4WDs can be had rather cheap, and they're great boards. (I've had 3)

[Mike T]

Given that you ride "more ice than anything else" I might steer you away from an all-mtn board and more towards a forgiving freecarve deck. If money is no object then a brand new Coiler Nirvana or Donek Metal FC. If you're looking to not break the bank, then look for pretty much anything used and metal that's turnier than a GS board and not as turny as a SL board... if you are patient, you might see something come up in the classifieds... this Coiler for example: http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?38602-178-coiler-and-183-nidecker, which already sold, might have been a good fit for you.

[Johnny]

My current board is an all mountain board. I'm looking for something else.

[SEJ]

Good point Mike. Ice = metal

[BXFR70]

I just started carving in hard boots the very end of last year, I went to ECES at Stratton, tried some boards, and tried hardbooting for the first time, it was a little strange for the first half of my first run, after that, it was fun.

the first board I tried was a Prior FLC 177, I was riding in soft boots a Prior BX 168.

the main thing I noticed that was really fun was that I could make probably 7 turns in the space I could make 3 with the soft boots, and still carried more speed, I have always ridden with more of a race style, and stay down the fall line usually, but thats aside the point.

that day, I also rode a couple of all mountain hard boot boards, and they worked okay in the choppy fresh snow conditions we had, but the FLC was not much worse either, basically, I did not see the point of them compared to soft boots and/or soft boot boards.

I would also recommend getting a metal, carve board particularly if you are riding in the east on ice a bit. or, like others have said get boots and bindings and ride what you have now, to get used to it some, you could still use your soft boot board in powder and crud with soft boots or hard boots in the future.

another thing, I have gone through a bit with getting boots to fit, you really only have Deeluxe or UPZ, or Head if you can find some in your size each fit differently.

for me, this is what I saw with having both Deeluxe Track 700 and UPZ RC-10 in front of me at the same time:

Deeluxe 700 is fairly wide in the heal, narrower in the front (compared to back, not actually wider..), I would say a mid volume boot as far as top to bottom.

the UPZ was wider in front, narrower in back, but very low profile, there was almost no room for my higher volume instep, with the stock liner, which is pretty thin, the liner was popping out of the plastic with my foot in it.

between the 2, I would say the Deeluxe has better buckles, the lean mechanism is probably better on the UPZ, also, the UPZ with short sole length was a little funny while walking around, only ever had them on carpet as I returned them.

so I have the Deeluxe track 700's now, and had a bit of bootfitting work done, and they finally seem to be pretty good for me.

hope this helps.

[Johnny]

Thanks for the info Timeless, I have a narrower heel, and a wider fore-foot, so I'm thinking the UPZ's may be better due to that, plus they come in bright green.

[Tabatha]

Johnny,

You are in luck - there is a great community in Ottawa who have boards and are always willing to meet up with people and let newbies try our stuff (we have extra bindings too - all you need is to rent ski boots). Check out the Ottawa Ride listing - I am about to post about where we want to go for New Years Day.

You may also want to send Ian MacKenzie a DM and ask him about Vorlage on Tuesday nights. I believe that most of us have night passes there and plan on making it a weekly get-together. The group loves talking gear and there is a full gambit of boot stories for the (short) chair lift rides.

Welcome to the Ottawa pose.

PS: I can't offer board advice - I can just offer boards to try! I have a new Donek (Free Carve), may be a too small for you - but you will get the feel.

[Hilux]

My current board is an all mountain board. I'm looking for something else.

Johnny, welcome welcome! Don't completely shy away from the "all mountain board". I've got a Coiler AMT 171cm (all-mountain titanal) and this thing sticks to our east coast ice no problem and is forgiving in other east coast afternoon crud. It was built with east coast conditions in mind focusing on ice first and 1pm crud second. As others have said, metal is your friend on ice and looking into a freecarve deck would also be your next best bet.

[Ian M]

Hi Johnny, welcome to the forum! There are a good number of us here it O-town, and we'll do our best to help you get set up :)

Gear-wise, I agree with a few other posters that a used metal board is a great idea, particularly a Coiler. They're so high-performance but wicked forgiving, making them an ideal first-alpine board to rule the ice with. I've been on a Coiler Stubby for a few years, and just bought a new Nirvana this season. You're welcome to try the Stubby, ideally on a firm day as it was built for me to ride on ice (it's pretty soft). I can pull my bindings and you can pop yours on. I plan to put it for for sale soon, so don't wait too long to get in touch with me if you're interested.

Learning-wise, we've got a six-week carving session going on at Vorlage Tuesday nights from January 15 to February 19th. This is a great opportunity to come and meet the locals and learn some key carving skills! Between the people who show up, we may be able to equip you with a 'loaner' setup for the following week. (My regular loaner gear is spoken for in the session already). Email me through the forum (by left-clicking my user name and 'send email'), and I'll add you to the email list for the sessions!

Cheers,

Ian

[Tabatha]

I have an Proton - anyone interested? No one is using it these days!!! Anyone? ;)

[Ian M]

^ burn that board

[Johnny]

Hi Johnny, welcome to the forum! There are a good number of us here it O-town, and we'll do our best to help you get set up :)

Gear-wise, I agree with a few other posters that a used metal board is a great idea, particularly a Coiler. They're so high-performance but wicked forgiving, making them an ideal first-alpine board to rule the ice with. I've been on a Coiler Stubby for a few years, and just bought a new Nirvana this season. You're welcome to try the Stubby, ideally on a firm day as it was built for me to ride on ice (it's pretty soft). I can pull my bindings and you can pop yours on. I plan to put it for for sale soon, so don't wait too long to get in touch with me if you're interested.

Learning-wise, we've got a six-week carving session going on at Vorlage Tuesday nights from January 15 to February 19th. This is a great opportunity to come and meet the locals and learn some key carving skills! Between the people who show up, we may be able to equip you with a 'loaner' setup for the following week. (My regular loaner gear is spoken for in the session already). Email me through the forum (by left-clicking my user name and 'send email'), and I'll add you to the email list for the sessions!

Cheers,

Ian

I'd be interested in that, but I'm currently transportation limited, ie, no car, so the only problem would be getting there.

[Tabatha]

Many of us have vehicles and do not mind car-pooling. Where in the Ottawa area are you located? Where can you get to?

[Johnny]

I'm on fisher near the experimental farm, and could get just about anywhere the buses go, but Orleans and Kanata may be a bit of a stretch.

[Tabatha]

I am sure we can help you out with rides. I would recommend that you look for when we are going out here:

www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?38392-Ottawa-ride-thread

And sign-up for Ian's awesomeness (don't tell him I said that - it will go to his head) here:

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?38724-Ottawa-Carving-Sessions-Jan-Feb

There have actually been a few e-mails regarding gear in the Ottawa Valley, so the sooner you contact Ian, the quicker you can get into the loop. Seems like there is a lot of interest here to try carving. And even though Ian says I should burn the Proton - it is ridable in a pinch if the other boards are spoken for.

Hope to see you on the hills soon