Atom Ant Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Hello all, I am looking to buy a plate this year. Despite the previous forum posts on BO regarding plates, i still feel there is no clean-cut way of gathering concrete information on them, let alone seeing them in person. I have ridden plates however, and want one for racing this coming season. Budget wise I am able to spend what I have to. I ride a Rev 185 World Cup flex, which is the board this plate would be going on. I weigh 192 in-season, very aggressive rider. Plates I know about (feel free to add to the list) Hagle Bomber Boiler Plate (4mm or light) Donek Plate Apex Plate (http://www.apexsnowboard.com/) Apex BOB snowboard plate (http://apex.snowboardcontest.com/09/boards/boards.htm) Coiler plate (heard it was happening) MK plates A JJA plate VIST All I can think of off for now. Thoughts on the best fit for my intended use and set-up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 We'll have two new models for next season. http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?37146-Spring-summer-2012-video-updates http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?37545-Board-and-plate-quot-System-Boards-quot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 My recommendation to you would be to try as many as you can before you buy. If that is not an option buy a 4mm boilerplate and tune it to your desired ride by slitting it with saw cuts as outlined in posts from Oldsnowboards. Since the boilerplate is of monocoque construction, glass and epoxy throughout little internal damage will result from modifying the plate.I would recommend you drill relief holes at the start and finish of each saw slit to prevent stress cracking. UPM mount is the best option so any new board purchases should include this as a priority. Lowest stack height is the ultimate goal. Good Luck ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon08 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) see http://www.sgsnowboards.com not listed at the moment, but available SG Plate system Edited June 19, 2012 by dragon08 URL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 see http://www.sgsnowboards.com not listed at the moment, but availableSG Plate system http://www.sgsnowboards.com/ Works fine. Close out on SG Cult and Soul snowboards!! http://apex.snowboardcontest.com/09/boards/boards.htm I would like to see better photos of this system. "BOB" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Hey Atom, I have a Donek 1st design plate I will part with at a good price. If interested, PM me. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tb Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Hello all,I am looking to buy a plate this year. Despite the previous forum posts on BO regarding plates, i still feel there is no clean-cut way of gathering concrete information on them, let alone seeing them in person. I have ridden plates however, and want one for racing this coming season. Budget wise I am able to spend what I have to. I ride a Rev 185 World Cup flex, which is the board this plate would be going on. I weigh 192 in-season, very aggressive rider. Plates I know about (feel free to add to the list) Hagle Bomber Boiler Plate (4mm or light) Donek Plate Apex Plate (http://www.apexsnowboard.com/) Apex BOB snowboard plate (http://apex.snowboardcontest.com/09/boards/boards.htm) Coiler plate (heard it was happening) MK plates A JJA plate VIST All I can think of off for now. Thoughts on the best fit for my intended use and set-up? Please take this with a grain of salt as I am a known Donek loyalist. Base on plate and board development in the last year, I agree with Jasey jay Anderson that boards and plates need to be developed to work well together as a system. With that said, and your statement that your board is the rev 185, I would highly recommend going with the new Donek AF plate. It was designed specifically around the rev boards and particularly the 185. That being said, I think the new AF plate will work well on other boards but it particularly shines on the Rev 185 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atom Ant Posted June 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 I have been busy on the border of insanity this week and last, so I only very quickly was able to look at the videos Sean posted on this thread. I must have missed the AF plate part, or perhaps it wasn't there? Anyway, no idea what this plate is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Adam Ant, What I would suggest, beyond the obvious of try as many plates as you can, is break down what you are looking for in a plate and also what each plate offers. First question: are you looking for a Full Isolating plate or Semi Isolating plate? On your list the Vist, Hangle, and (not 100%) the Apex BOB are semi-isolating. My definition of this is that means the plate in some way has to bend or give with the board. They tend to be lower and lighter but do not isolate the rider 100% and do affect the flex of the board. Side note: the Hangle don't really change the flex as much as it is more like two separate plates under each foot and not bridged between them. Full Isolating plates use pivots and sliding mechanism to fully isolate the rider from the flex of the board. But at a cost of some height, weight, and complexity. But maximum smoothness is achieved. Look at the way the manufacturer does their pivots. Is it a true bearing surface or is it metal on metal? Smoothness and sticktion free are what you want in a pivot and sliding system. I am a bit amazed at what is being released and called a sliding pivot. Staineless steel dragging across bare aluminum is not, in my opinion, a good way to do a pivot and will be problematic down the road. Look at heights and weights. Racers don't mind as much but I have found recreational carvers are more sensitive to this. Ease of install and removal. How many tools do you need to install the plate and adjust. A plate that needs a small machine shop, several six-packs of beer, and 2-3 spare hours to install is no fun. Adjustability: can you change certain aspects of the plate to make it perform different for you. Models and flexes offered: some riders like a firm plate some like more torsional twist to allow for low speed control (pedal). Do you have options on what type of flex you can get the plate in. Offer in both UPM and 4 hole? For true performance and maximum output, I do recommend UPM. Warrantee? Is 90 days really a reasonable warrantee time period or is one year the norm? Cost. I would part way agree with Todd above. If you go with a semi-isolating plate, there is some merit to getting one designed around a specific board as the semi-plate works and bends with that board. For a full isolating plate, I believe this is not as necessary. The full-iso plate has a simple function, let the board do (flex) what it wants. So the design of the plate does not need to be completely tailored to that board. And the adjustments available to most plates will allow you to fine tune any changes you need. Keep in mind most board manufacturers have adjusted their boards to work better with plates as a whole. OK, now for the shameless plug: my suggestion would be look at our 4mm Boiler Plate with UPM. At your weight and on a super dooper board like that Donek Rev 185, this is a killer set-up. We do have the 4mm Lite coming next season but you are WAY past the weight it was designed for. If you have any question, drop me a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think Fin has given you the best advise so far. The AF plate is a bit secret right now. I know that is counter to what we typically do, but we are in the process of filing a provisional patent on the technology. Not because we want to go and sue everyone, but because the technology is so unique and we want some sort of compensation should someone decide to integrate this technology in their product. Once that we are at the patent pending stage, we will release pictures and details on the design. One thing we are moving towards with the system boards is racer and coach driven. The AF plate will only go on the board in one position. This is done for a number of reasons. The biggest is probably that most riders do not spend large amounts of time thinking about and manipulating their gear. As a result, they can mount some plates in a less than ideal arrangement, feel some improvement and think, "I've got it". Some of the coaches express concerns that there is so much gear between the rider and board now, that they can't be certain if the problems they are trying to address are the rider or the gear. By making it only possible to mount the plate in the ideal position, many of these problems disappear. Thorough and extensive testing with top riders allows us to narrow these factors down and really provide customers with an optimized system. That being said, the Rev probably has more development time under a Boiler plate than any other plate on the market, so you probably can't go wrong with a Boiler Plate or AF Plate on a Rev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apex Insider Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 It's not our style to criticise competitive products or get into feature-for-feature comparisons. Instead, we let our results do the talking: Since we designed and released the first composite snowboard plate for the 2010 season: 29 World Cup podiums, including 11 Gold 1 Olympic Gold 1 World Cup Crystal Globe The only other commercially available, slider-style plate with more than 1 podium is SG's product. If you're interested in what we decided to do about our patent back in 2009, it's in our blog: http://www.apexsnowboard.com/blog.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atom Ant Posted June 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Thanks all. To me, it sounds like this is a "wait and see" situation. Season doesn't start up for another five months or so, so plenty of time to see what next-gen products get put out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 I wouldn't necessarily put off a purchase waiting for whats next. Buying a 4mm BP and tuning it to your board will probably be as close to your ideal as you will get unless you want to make your own plate and hardware. The evolution will continue as it has till now. I've been at it a while now and every time you create a new plate you realize that the next one will be perfect except.........I'm now of the opinion that plate attachment is an issue as well as questioning whether the present UPM insert placement is the correct one since it was developed or evolved for vist which is a far different system than an isolation plate. At least get a plate and play around with it carpet carving. Maybe Bomber will have a summer sale for conflicted riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apex Insider Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 The Apex Insert Pattern was developed by us with the thought towards backward compatibility with Hangl-ready snowboards. Vist is 2 holes right in the centre of the board. You can call it UPM if you like. We don't mind <G>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 The Apex Insert Pattern was developed by us with the thought towards backward compatibility with Hangl-ready snowboards. Vist is 2 holes right in the centre of the board. You can call it UPM if you like. We don't mind <G>. Funny point ! I would call UPM an arbitrary usless measurement as it applies to present day plates the discussion has been had before but i believe JP1 was the first to suggest that it came about by someone grabbing a piece of scrap that already had holes drilled into it and for the sake of expediency was used and reused so as to establish it as the defacto "standard" 12.9mm, rediculous ! Lets all agree that based on experimentation to date there is no one measurement that is best. Find a board you like, a plate you feel comfortable on and if you have to turn them into swiss cheese to put the plate where it feels rite do it and ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atom Ant Posted June 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Okay, lets toss aside any suggestions that I should mod the plate I buy. I am not that handy (and don't think most riders are) and not rich enough to screw it up and buy another to try again. I spend a lot of money annually on snowboarding because I love it, and because I believe I am good enough that I would be shortchanging myself and my development if I rode less than capable boards. I started training hard on gates riding a 168 Prior WCRM, and as wonderful as that board is it took about a week before it was just junk in the gates failing me when I needed it most (it would collapse during intense turns). The Rev solved this problem, but cost me a good chunk of change. I think I am like most die-hard riders... save all year for new toys, but when it comes to buying those toys its kinda a one-shot deal. Spend the money, hope it works out or take a loss in selling on Bomber, not to mention having to race/train on less than ideal equipment while the next plate is ordered/shipped. Winter is too short. So no mods... but all the more respect to those who do, I'm just not one of them. As always, deeply appreciate all the advice. Love this community. I think its still wait and see (although APEX of BOMBER would be the choice as of now, since I have no idea what the AF Plate is aside from Sean s hints), baring a hook-up or summer sale on an APEX of Bomber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) AA, Please explain (although APEX of BOMBER would be the choice as of now, baring a hook-up or summer sale on an APEX of Bomber. To be clear, APEX and Bomber are two very separate entities. Edited June 23, 2012 by www.oldsnowboards.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 It's not our style to criticise competitive products or get into feature-for-feature comparisons. Instead, we let our results do the talking:Since we designed and released the first composite snowboard plate for the 2010 season: 29 World Cup podiums, including 11 Gold 1 Olympic Gold 1 World Cup Crystal Globe The only other commercially available, slider-style plate with more than 1 podium is SG's product. If you're interested in what we decided to do about our patent back in 2009, it's in our blog: http://www.apexsnowboard.com/blog.html To be clear sir. You do NOT have a Patent , never did. What you had was a provisional application which has expired. Correct? Under United States patent law, a provisional application is a legal document filed in the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), that establishes an early filing date, but which does not mature into an issued patent unless the applicant files a regular non-provisional patent application within one year. There is no such thing as a "provisional patent". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apex Insider Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) We filed a United States Provisional Patent Application. I apologise for calling it a "provisional patent". We mention it only because Sean talks about it in his post. Lowrider, we agree - the 12.9mm is crazy, but I'll bet you can guess it came from conversion and reconversion from metric to US (imperial) measures. North American machinists still talk "thou" and " tenths". In any event send us an email or Facebook us if anyone wants to chat about our plates, snowboarding in general, Euro Cup or even golf for that matter. Probably not the best idea for us to post on here. Edited June 23, 2012 by Apex Insider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atom Ant Posted June 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Sorry, that was probably a little convoluted. I meant that those are the two plates I would purchase in a pre-season/summer sale. Otherwise, I would wait until the new plates have come out before making my pay-full-price decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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