Intec binding purchase

[bdurgin]

My wife and I both have hard plate setups. Currently we have Burton race plates on the front and we and Burton bear trap step in bindings on the rear. I’m sure that “bear trap” isn’t the official name for these step in bindings; they have a lever that you need to cock to set them, then you need to stomp down on them and then the bail snaps up to lock you in. We have had this type of step-in bindings for about 5 years now. It has been working ok, but the misfiring at step-in and falling over while getting out once I get tired toward the end of the day is getting old. We saw someone on the hill with the Intec system last year and he recommended that we check out bomeronline after we asked about his setup. After doing some research I would like to keep our Burton race plates on the front and mount Intec step-ins on the rear of our boards. Here are a few more facts about our setup: she has a 3 hole board and my boards are 4 hole. We both currently use universal cants (plastic disks that you can dial from 0 to 8 to set up the desired cant angle), she currently uses her ski boots so we need to get her new boots. Based on this I have some questions about the best Intec binding to meet our needs:

1. TD2 look really nice, but seem limited with the canting. Also, since I plan on buying one set of bindings to use on the rear of both boards, is it possible to get one 3-hole and one 4-hole binding?

2. CATEK Olympic step-in seem to be the most adjustable and they look really nice. However, if we put these on the rear of our boards, would we be level with the Burton race plates and universal cants on the front? It looks like these fit both 4 and 3-hole set up without any additional hardware. Is this true?

3. Deeluxe X Bone seems to be the most basic, but might meet our needs just fine. Would these work well mounted on universal cants? If so, would they be level with the Burton race plates and universal cants on the front? Are they durable?

4. I currently have Burton Fire boots, are these Intec compatible?

5. Can you set up Intec heel kits to be both left? We are both goofy so we would want to have the cable on our outside left. Do I need to buy 2 kits for this?

Also, we really don’t need to keep our front bindings. We could buy the matching front standard binding if that made the most sense. Since our front bindings are working fine I would like keep.

Sorry for the long message. Since I can’t actually go to a shop and look at this stuff and ask questions I want to make sure that we get the bindings that will work the best for our setup. I would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks in advance.

[Steve Dold]

Using a Burton Race Plate in front and a Bomber TD or a Catek on the rear might feel really odd. The Race Plate is a very flexible binding laterally, and the Bomber/Cateks are very stiff. They are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

I would suggest buying one set, and letting both of you take turns trying them out. It would give you more options, for example if you like them but she doesn't, you could keep them on your board and she could use both Race Plates on her board., or vice versa.

The X-Bones are a little more flexible, but I wouldn't suggest them for anyone who rides hard or weighs more than about 180 pounds. The interface is a plastic disk with a single nut in the center holding the binding on

[philw]

I don't think it's a good idea to mix & match bindings - get a pair and use them like that. I think this is not a profitable line of thought.

As far as the X-bone things, I'm not sure I'd go for anything other than the FE race bindings (or whatever they're branded these days). These come with wedges so you can set the cant etc up the way you like, then forget it. Again, you don't want to be thinking about micing one manufacturer's cant with another's binding, imho.

[Gtanner]

You could also contact Dave at http://www.yyzcanuck.com/ He has a series of F2 and Phiokka bindings that are available and are not as rigid as the Bomber/Catek combination. Give him a ring and maybe you can work something out.

I also agree that you will have a very odd feeling if you have Brtn race plates in the front and a rigid binding in the back...I wouldn't mix/match. You should also check out the carvers almanac (www.alpinecarving.com) to see what they have to say regarding the anchor points between standard bails and intec step-ins before you make a purchase.

good luck,

Gord

[Jack M]

Originally posted by bdurgin

1. TD2 look really nice, but seem limited with the canting.

Hi bdurgin, welcome to the site. The TD2s give you about a thousand more canting options than Burtons. The way it works is you select either a 3 or 6 degree disc (or 0 if you want flat) and then you can rotate the disc in increments of 5 degrees. This rotation is of the cant disc only - your binding angle (aka stance angle) can stay the same.

As you rotate the cant disc with respect to the board and to your binding angle, you get varying amounts of cant and/or heel/toe lift. You can arrange it so you have pure lift and no cant, pure cant and no lift, or anywhere in between.

The only limitation is having to choose between a 3 or 6 degree disc slope angle, but these choices fill the bill for many if not most people. If you're used to the cant wedge that Burton supplies with its bindings, I'd recommend the 6 degree Bomber disc. Otherwise the 3 degree disc is a safe bet.

Mixing Bomber and Burton bindings on the same board is NOT recommended.

Also, it is important to note that TD2s have a unique dampening system where your binding is essentially "floating" on an elastomer ring. It makes for a much smoother ride than the first generation TD. There is a choice of soft, medium, or hard rings. Coming from Burtons, you'll want the soft.

Feel free to post questions like this, that's a big part of what this forum is for.

[bdurgin]

Thanks for all the responses.

Jack, just to make sure I understand you correctly; if I went with a TD2 with 6 degree, I could actually adjust it to be anywhere between 0 to 6 degrees of cant? If so, why do they make 0 and 3 degree cant disks?

Do you think there would be any problems using regular TD2 in the front and TD2 step-in in the rear? We have had this set up for the last 4 or 5 years with Burton and have been pretty happy with it.

[bobdea]

or whatever it is called those were pretty nifty

any idea what the angle is on it right now?

I would get get two pair of td2s with the soft bumpers and intec

you could also check out the snowpro bindings

if you want to stay with burton stuff Klugriding.com might have some physics left they were similar to the intec system and will fit any intec ready boot

yes, the fire is intec compatible in fact that and a minor change to the canting device on the side of the shell is the only difference from the older burton reactor and furnace

mixing bindings is something I would avoid though I have had to do it when I have broken bails and what not it just feels wrong

[Miguel]

Do you think there would be any problems using regular TD2 in the front and TD2 step-in in the rear?

I have two boards set up that way and have experienced no problems.

Miguel

[Jack M]

Originally posted by bdurgin

Jack, just to make sure I understand you correctly; if I went with a TD2 with 6 degree, I could actually adjust it to be anywhere between 0 to 6 degrees of cant?

No. The discs are machined to be either 0, 3, or 6 degrees. The only thing you can do is rotate them. So, you can aim the slope along with the long axis of your board, or along the angle of your binding, or across the board, or wherever, in 5 degree increments. The slope of the disc does not change, just its orientation.

I suppose yes, if you are using the Burton unicant (or whatever it's called) system that has two mating sloped plastic discs, then the Bomber system is not quite as adjustable. But the all-metal Bomber is a heck of a lot more durable and solid connection.

Do you think there would be any problems using regular TD2 in the front and TD2 step-in in the rear? We have had this set up for the last 4 or 5 years with Burton and have been pretty happy with it.

Shouldn't be a problem at all. Several people do this.

[bdurgin]

Great, thanks to everyone for the clarification and additional information. I do have the unicant set to 2 degrees on both front and rear. I stopped using cants when I stopped using my ski boots 3 years ago. However, I put them on again this year and I feel much more centered on the board so I want to continue the cants with the new bindings. My wife has hers set to 7 degrees, but she currently uses ski boots. Once we get her snowboard boots we will likely reduce this angle.

I am now thinking that I could go with 0 degrees cants and continue to use the unicants. However, it looks like the TD2 has a great deal of lift built in. Do you think this setup would have too much lift?

[Jack M]

In theory it's possible to mount 3-hole Bombers on top of Burton Unicants but you really don't want to. Too much stack height and it's just unnecessary - the TD2s adjustability will get you where you need to go. Also the plastic Unicant is much weaker than the Bomber, and you'd be cancelling or otherwise funkifying the effect of the elastomer.

If you've been using 2 degrees on the Burtons, the 3 degree TD2 will be just fine. For your wife at 7 degrees on the Burton, the 6 degree TD2 will do the trick.

[bobdea]

with Jack , the canting on the TD2 will work fine and if for some reason you need to change it you can do a trade with someone in the classifieds I have done this before

[bdurgin]

Thanks for everyone’s help. After doing some more reading I am leaning toward the Catek Olympic over the TD2. I think I would rather have the flexible canting options of the Catek over the suspension of the TD2. However, I am a little hesitant about going from a sloppy binding like the Burton Race to the Catek. Since Burton are the only bindings I have used I’m not sure how a much more ridged binding will work for me. I’m assuming I will be able to adapt after a few days and everything will be good. Does this sound like a reasonable assumption?

[Jon Dahl]

you shouldn't need the infinate cant of the Catek. That is, if you are not bow legged or knock knee'd. Bruce Varsava wrote a very good article about cant and lift, I assume it is on his (Coiler) site somewhere. The step up from the Burtons to the TD2/Catek type of binding is a big one, but precious few others offer the easy cant/lift options they do.

[Jack M]

There is an article on how to set up TD2s here:

http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/TD2_setup.cfm

and a partial matrix of cant/lift combinations here:

http://www.bomberonline.com/JackM/td2matrix.xls

[bdurgin]

Jon, thanks for the info, but I wasn’t able to locate the Bruce Varsava article on canting. I checked out coiler.com and tried googling with no luck. Sounds like a great article.

Jack, thanks for pointing me to the TD2 setup articles, now I get it (I think). “Lift” is referring to having the cant disk slop in line with the direction your boot is pointing, so it simply raises your boot heal above your toe for the rear boot and vice versa for the front, but doesn’t slope your legs to the front or rear in line with the board (to move your knees in (or out?)). I was thinking the term “Lift” was like a riser plate on a ski, just to get your boot higher off the board (level). Now I understand what you were talking about in your earlier post. I’ve never actually thought about just trying lift. Now I have another adjustment to consider tweaking...

[Gtanner]

Search this forum for more threads debating the Catek vs TD2 argument. There have been several different posts and responses from many experienced riders. The Catek website also has a few threads that are worth a look at.

Either way, the fact still remains that Catek and Bomber are premium carving machines and will take your riding to another level. Personally I switched from the Burton Raceplates to set of TD1's last year and couldn't get over the response. I was able to speed up my edge change and really dial in the different pressure phases of my turns. I am also a bit of a tweaker/tinkerer, thus Cateks fit the bill for me.

Good luck in your research,

Gord

[Daneille]

I am curious as to why people like the toe clip/step in combo?

Daneille

[gmarsden]

Dave Morgan had Bruce's canting article in the tech section at www.yyzcanuck.com

[bdurgin]

I am curious as to why people like the toe clip/step in combo?

I don’t know about the Intec system, but with the Burton setup, many times it was actually easier for me to get into the standard race plates on the front. The rat traps would frequently misfire especially on power days. However, once I have my front leg clipped in I have good leverage on the board and I am able to step into the rear binding with ease (usually). Also, I believe that the standard Burton race plates were cheaper than the step-in, and I only need to get into and out of the front binding a couple of times per day, not every run.

The Bruce Varsava article is outstanding. Thanks for the reference. Now I am thinking that I am not properly adjusting my bindings. I probably need more lift than cant…

[Jack M]

Originally posted by bdurgin

Jack, thanks for pointing me to the TD2 setup articles, now I get it (I think). “Lift” is referring to having the cant disk slop in line with the direction your boot is pointing, so it simply raises your boot heal above your toe for the rear boot and vice versa for the front, but doesn’t slope your legs to the front or rear in line with the board (to move your knees in (or out?)). I was thinking the term “Lift” was like a riser plate on a ski, just to get your boot higher off the board (level). Now I understand what you were talking about in your earlier post. I’ve never actually thought about just trying lift. Now I have another adjustment to consider tweaking...

Yup. Although specifically, the terms "cant" and "lift" are spoken of as being relative to your foot, not the board. So pure lift is as you say above - the disc slopes parallel with the direction your boot is pointing. Pure cant would be the disc sloping perpendicular to your boot direction. With TD2s, you can rotate the disc so it is is sloping in any direction, in 5 degree increments.

For example, I enjoy heel lift and "a little bit" of <i>outward</i> canting for my rear foot. My binding angle is 60 degrees, so I set the disc angle to 55 degress (nose of the board is 90 degrees). Get it?

This feature of the TD2 is simple to adjust and because all settings are quantifiable - you just read them off the binding. This is nice for experimenting and also for when you need to repeat a setup when you re-mount the bindings.

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by bdurgin

I am curious as to why people like the toe clip/step in combo?

I don’t know about the Intec system, but with the Burton setup,

Ive used both and the Intec stomps the rat trap all over the place. Rat trap is a neat idea, but...hair trigger, missing the heel, etc...all annoying

intec you just push down and go! keep the receivers lubed up and youve got years of use ahead of you it seems