corduroy in Japan

[dblbasscleph]

I wanted to get some discussion going on good alpine courses in Japan. So far I have been to Hakuba and Nozawa Onsen and while both have had wonderful snow, there was not much in the way of groomed runs. I'm looking to go to either Niseko or maybe Furano in Hokkaido in a few weeks, but I wanted to know if anyone had any experience finding groomed runs here.

From what I've experienced so far, a "black diamond" run in Japan is just a run that is steep and hasn't been groomed since the late 80s. I never see anyone going down these runs except the one or two mogul hound or lost boarder who are stopping after one or two turns all the way down. What a waste of great snow....

[Shred Gruumer]

Japan has a cool magazine named CARVE... I wonder if going there is worth it.. maybe NAGANO or something..

but with all this good stuff here is it worth a 20 hour ride or go to Europe or even summer in Chile..

those people in Japan are crazy carver happy.. looking at the magazine..

and the stuff they get there is twice of what we have.. whats. the dilly oh. with that...??

Second if there stuff is so good why are they ridding kesslers and Oxess and not the japanese stuff like BC Stream and Moss..

Interesting..

[dblbasscleph]

Hakuba and Nozawa are both in Nagano, Nagano is actually a huge area with a lot of different mountains.

I've seen a lot more alpine boards here than I do in the states, it seems like the japanese are fairly into it. Despite this I haven't seem any of them do rail to rail carving, I think it has just recently taken off and there are a lot of beginners. Maybe racing is more popular than freecarving though.

The most common alpine boards here are F2s and ogasaka, so I think they still like to buy Japanese brands. Even here though I think ogasaka is kinda overpriced...

[Shred Gruumer]

after reading and doing the conversion.. it almost makes it worth loading up a crate and bringing it over.. boots are 975US its insane after reading the mag.. crazy silly you can make a killing bringing over a crate of coilers....

RSS

[Hans]

Heard that the japanse alpine snowboard market is far bigger than the european. They really like F2, Virus, Kessler and SG Boards. Their SG site has even been updated yet to next year and they already ride those boards: http://www.sgjapan.jp/products/index.html

[Flywalker]

I am in Hokkaido.

There are many resorts that will have groomed runs... but you need to be on the first chair in the morning or ride midweek to find it.

Niseko, Rusutsu, Kiroro, Kokusai.... all within a maximum 2 hr drive from Sapporo... will have daily grooming programs. Even Teine, Sapporo's local mountain and the site of the '72 winter Olympics will have groomers, but only in the morning. By lunch time the runs have deteriorated to the point where you need to have some mogul bashing skills.

Today l was at Rusutsu. l saw several carvers there and when l stopped for lunch there were 4 SG race boards and 2 Kesslers lined up next to each other. l didn't see them ride because l was in the trees all day.

I have no idea whether Moss, Gray, BC Stream etc. are good boards or not, although l would assume that they are decent products. However, the locals have a combination of inferiority complex AND the notion that foreign is better.

ln any case, it's far more exotic for a local rider to be on a Kessler or SG than on anything made here. l haven't seen a single Prior, Donek or Prior, though.

[Miltie]

There is much groom to be had in Japan - you just have to get up early!

By far, the best groom I have ridden was at Rusutsu (Flywalker's home mountain). It was one day last March after a big dump and was just unreal.

BTW Flywalker - You missed the JSBA Technical Carving event which was held at Rusutsu this week. Matsui-san of SG won. Good guy. Goto-san on SG was like 5th.

dblbasscleph, Where are you based out of in Japan?

Dynaland in Gifu has good runs and groom but have have to get it early. Many alpine riders there including many of the SG team riders. They usually have Alpine training on weekends - gates or freecarving. This is currently my home mountain.

Echo Valley is in Nagano and popular among alpine riders. Access is realitively easy (near Suwa city). You might also check out Royal Hill not far from Suwa city as well.

The Hakuba area has some decent resorts. Sun Alipina Kashimayari has a solid alpine crew. Would recommend you go to top parking lot at mid mountain. Lower mountain is either steep and ungroomed or relatively flat.

Ciao Ontake - Decent mountian with groom. Usually they run into May as they are at decent altitude. A bit of a challenge to get to but worth checking out in the spring.

Good riders - many very talented riders here. I see a lot of mediocre carvers on the hill (myself included) but if you run into some of the top ranked local riders, you will be amazed.

Equipment - As Flywalker wrote - foreign is usually perceived as better. SG, Kessler and Oxess are popular. I have owned several Moss boards and a few Gray boards. Quality is primo. Everything is expensive here so many riders still support the local companies. Ogasaka and BC Stream are also good quality.

Hans, I got check out the new SGs today. According to Koji-san of SG Japan, they have a new camber profile. Construction is similar to last year.

Take care, Tom

[dblbasscleph]

I live in Osaka. I have yet to check out places in gifu (dynaland) but I did go to some small places in shiga-ken.

From what I've read Furano and Rusutsu are supposed to have the best groomers in Hokkaido, how does Furano compare? I am kind of pulling for that place because the town seems pretty culturally interesting as well. I'm thinking of staying for around 8 nights, so I'd like someplace that can hold my interest for that long.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but Rusutsu is more of a resort than an actual town, so maybe I would be a bit bored there if I'm not on the slopes?

[carvedog]

slightly off topic to you Japan riders.

I heard somewhere that Japan has close to 700 ski areas....is this for real?

Incredible if so.

[grock5]

There's over 450 (including indoor & summer carpet) resorts & facilities listed in the website below.

http://snow.gnavi.co.jp/en/

The 700 number may include facilities such as schools & public parks with a rope tow, etc.

As for equipment, it does not surprise me that the top European brands under the feet of World Cup Racers are in favor over there...

My people love expensive toys, made abroad with brand name recognition, and folks are big on owning gear as much for status more than anything else.

As for importing equipment, shipping costs, tariffs & less brand name recognition (compared to Kessler/SG/Oxxess) would make it challenging to make a quick buck over there.

[Gecko]

I wasn't overly impressed with Nagano, the mountains I rode were unimaginative, the convoluted lift paths to get to the top from the bottom was annoying and the snow reminded me too much of Big Bear. I much preferred Niigata....better layout, better snow not to mention easier to get to.

[Flywalker]

From what I've read Furano and Rusutsu are supposed to have the best groomers in Hokkaido, how does Furano compare? I am kind of pulling for that place because the town seems pretty culturally interesting as well. I'm thinking of staying for around 8 nights, so I'd like someplace that can hold my interest for that long.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but Rusutsu is more of a resort than an actual town, so maybe I would be a bit bored there if I'm not on the slopes?

You are correct. Rusutsu isn't even a town, it's a resort. The nearest town is Kimobetsu and it's a blip on the map. In the summer there is a mini fun park with roller coasters etc. on the same grounds as the hotel but in the winter it's all about the mountain... and that's it. Nothing else.

My Japanese wife raised her eyebrows at the thought of Furano as being "culturally interesting". ln the summer they have spectacular lavender fields along with other flowers which blanket the surrounding hills in brilliant colour. However, although this is a "must see" for motorcycle tourists in the summer, in winter the best l can do is recommend a great ramen noodle restaurant.

As far as Furano groomed is concerned neither of us can comment... sorry. But... at the moment Furano has a 130cm base, Rusutsu 270cm and Niseko 390cm.

As an option l would consider basing yourself in Niseko. You can ride groomed or powder there... and the crazy season is over so the tourist numbers are way down now. There's a daily bus that goes to Rusutsu as well so you can visit both mountains. l'd say there's enough between these two to keep you occupied for a week.

The other option, possibly, would be to base yourself in Asahikawa and check out the mountains on that side. Furano and Tomamu are within reach but you'll need to rent a car probably. There's also some gnarly backcountry in Asahidake and Kurodake if you're inclined.

Miltie!!! Dude l wish l had known about that event at Rusutsu! l was there yesterday but l had no idea that there was an event taking place. How does one find info on these events? l'd like to bookmark that info for next time.

[dblbasscleph]

I wasn't overly impressed with Nagano, the mountains I rode were unimaginative, the convoluted lift paths to get to the top from the bottom was annoying and the snow reminded me too much of Big Bear. I much preferred Niigata....better layout, better snow not to mention easier to get to.

Some nagano resorts are better than others but overall I agree, lift paths are very convoluted. Like having two single chair lifts right next to eachother, going to exactly the same place. Not very well thought out...

Flywalker, I've read that Furano is well known around Japan for their culinary produce, and a lot of japan's best wine and cheese comes from there. If I go I'll have to do a trip report. Also there is a good national park nearby with some legendary looking onsens, I'll post photos when I get back home from work.

Thanks for the advice. I'll consider using niseko as a base, especially if its no longer super busy. The only issue I'd have with going to multiple hills is that traveling might get expensive. I still need to find a flight, which seems difficult because I think most schools get those weeks off as a spring break...

[Flywalker]

The bus between Niseko and Rusutsu is local and dirt cheap. Depending on when you come up l may be able to join you for a few days. That'll remove the bus altogether (^_^)

[dblbasscleph]

The bus between Niseko and Rusutsu is local and dirt cheap. Depending on when you come up l may be able to join you for a few days. That'll remove the bus altogether (^_^)

Yeah that'd be awesome man. I'm hoping to go up around the 21st (of march), got any free days around then?

This was the onsen I was talking about near furano. Looks unbeatable!

http://www.furano-kankou.com/english/hyperlinks/Accom/Accom-H-Ryounkaku.html

[Flywalker]

l'm free on that day and maybe the next... then l have to go to Tokyo on business the 23-25th. lf all goes well l'll be back the evening of the 25th and ready to ride again on the 26th... followed by about 10 days off. Once you firm up your plans let me know and we can go hit the hills!

l've been to that onsen! lt was in September 2008 on a motorcycle tour... the leaves were changing and the view from the onsen was just amazing. Winter should be even more superb by the looks of the photos.

There are lots of great onsens around Niseko as well... but not with those kinds of views. Tough call really.... depends on what sort of overall experience you want, l guess. ln any case, let me know if you're going to head around my neck of the woods. Send me a PM and we can go from there.

[dblbasscleph]

Flywalker, I'll email you my info.

I am going to hatchikita kogen this weekend (in hyogo), we'll see how that goes. Its supposed to be one of the better areas in southern honshu.

edit: your email is not on! could you turn messaging on, or just email me at my junk email. it is my username at hotmail dot com

[Masahiko]

I am in Hokkaido.

There are many resorts that will have groomed runs... but you need to be on the first chair in the morning or ride midweek to find it.

Niseko, Rusutsu, Kiroro, Kokusai.... all within a maximum 2 hr drive from Sapporo... will have daily grooming programs. Even Teine, Sapporo's local mountain and the site of the '72 winter Olympics will have groomers, but only in the morning. By lunch time the runs have deteriorated to the point where you need to have some mogul bashing skills.

Today l was at Rusutsu. l saw several carvers there and when l stopped for lunch there were 4 SG race boards and 2 Kesslers lined up next to each other. l didn't see them ride because l was in the trees all day.

I have no idea whether Moss, Gray, BC Stream etc. are good boards or not, although l would assume that they are decent products. However, the locals have a combination of inferiority complex AND the notion that foreign is better.

ln any case, it's far more exotic for a local rider to be on a Kessler or SG than on anything made here. l haven't seen a single Prior, Donek or Prior, though.

Hello Flywalker ,

I am living in Ebetsu city . I've been riding Prior , Donek and Coiler for years .I don't know why they like snowboards from europe .

If you like to enjoy carving without trying to mogul , you should go slopes

that is not like a resort .

I always ride in ASARI , YUBARI and KAMOI-DAKE. Actually there are lots of

experience alpine carvers on the slopes like that .

I strongly recommend you to try BLUE COURSE in ASARI . It's groomed everyday and steep enough to keep the people away . SO it's clean groomed all the day , and steep !

[Flywalker]

Hi Masahiko!

Asari... is that Tengu Yama? l work in Otaru every Wednesday so it could be a good chance to check it out. My lunch break is 3 hours long so l could easily get there for 2 hours. Do you know if they sell tickets by the hour or is it full day and half day tickets?

[Masahiko]

Hi Masahiko!

Asari... is that Tengu Yama? l work in Otaru every Wednesday so it could be a good chance to check it out. My lunch break is 3 hours long so l could easily get there for 2 hours. Do you know if they sell tickets by the hour or is it full day and half day tickets?

Hi Flywaler ,

Asari is not Tengu Yama . It is located on the way to Sapporo Kokusai from

Asarii Exit of Sasson freeway.

They don't offer the hours tickets . They only offer full day ticket but their

ticket fee is 2500YEN / day. Isn't it cheap , is it ?

Do you ride alpine snowboard ? I guess of course you do .But I've never seen any foreigner who ride alpine snowboard in Hokkaido . Most of them looks like crazy about powder snow . Where do you usually ride ?

Masahiko

[Flywalker]

Hi Masahiko,

Ok l see... l don't know Asari, then. l have never been to Kokusai, either. The price is cheap, though! Do you know when they will close? l have 3 weeks vacation starting March 18th so if they are still open l would like to go at least one time.

Yes, l ride an alpine board. l bought a used Kessler while l was home in Canada for the Christmas holidays. l also have a Dynastar 3800 for my free ride board with Burton race plate bindings. As far as l know l am the only foreigner in Hokkaido who rides an alpine snowboard. All my friends are powder maniacs on soft boots. l can ride with them no problem with my free ride board but l don't do jumps or go into the park. They are always in the trees! My wife who is Japanese started riding a carving board this year and she is doing very, very well. l am hoping to get up early enough this weekend to experience corduroy at Rusutsu. lt might be difficult to do, though.... l have to attend a shaonkai party in Otaru Saturday night and my glass will be filled non-stop for two hours! This year l will try to disappear like a ninja before the nijikai (^_-)

My home mountain is Rusutsu. l go there every Sunday. I'd be happy to try somewhere new during my Spring vacation (^_^) From Ebetsu it is much easier to access your recommended ski areas than from Sapporo kita-ku... but l can probably do it on my time off.

[Masahiko]

Hi Flywalker ,

Asari will be open until the end of March . You have to try the slope .:lol::lol:

I also love to dive into the deep powder snow . But usually I ride only

alpine board . I always go to NISEKO TISE-NUPURI when I enjoy the powder

snow . I set up bomber TD3 on swallow tailed powder board and get into the slope .:)

I guess you are working as an English teacher in Sapporo . Is that right ?

Actually one of my English teacher came from Calgary a few years ago.

I think it must take at least 2 hours drive to get to Rusutsu from your house.Why don't you try another slopes like KAMUI , KIRORO and so on.

It will take only about an hour from Kita-ku.Our places are not so much far

each other , Highway exit between Sapporo-Kita and Ebetsu is only 10 minutes drive .

Well , why don't we ride alpine snowboard together in somewhere around Sapporo ?

Usually I go to several slopes on Sundays and go to Bakei or Onze after work on weekday.

Masahiko

[Flywalker]

Hi Masahiko (^_^)

l have a Kamori Winter Pass. That's why l always go to Rusutsu or Teine. Mt. Racey is also on that pass so l should try it as well.

English teacher.... that's right. Kindergarden teacher during the day and private adult teacher at night. Ore wa ichiban ookii kodomo dakara tanoshii haha!

l'd love to hit the hills with you, dude. Let's make a plan and get out there. You can send me a private message through here or email me at flywalker68 at gmail dot com.

[Flywalker]

As Masahiko stated earlier some resorts close in Hokkaido at the end of this month. Niseko will close at the end of the first weekend of May. l believe Rusutsu will be similar to Niseko.

l can't comment on resorts in other regions.

As far as crowds are concerned.... basically things are winding down. Hotels will be EASY to find and end of season discounts will be available. Several bars in Niseko are having their year end parties March 15th even though the mountain is open for another 6 weeks.

Conditions? All depends on the year. There is still LOTS of snow here... last Thursday-Friday was the single biggest dump of the season in Kokusai and Teine. We may have really good riding right up to closing day this year.

[Rys]

Again, thanks for the info. This is great! I do not think I will be able to make it this season, being we are having one of our best seasons ever here in Vail CO. But next year early season or end of season I want to visit and ride.