Odd Job Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 I've been practicing carving with my softboot setup, have progressed to the point where I can carve on steeper (but not the steepest) blue trails without falling. I've been working heavily on my fore/aft movement, but have realized yesterday carving on hard crud/ice that concentrating on this was throwing my riding off, instead just throwing it on an edge being centered helped me get down the run better. (This is a first for me, got ~6 runs in without falling, although I kept popping out of my tracks for split seconds at a time but didn't fall) Is centered with a slight near sub conscious weight shift better? Or should I be working on loading the nose/tail heavily to work on technique? Just to reiterate, this is on a 7.95m softboot board at 45/30 angles. (No I still don't have my hardboot setup yet! :( My AF700's are sitting in my closet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 I stay light on my feet while I'm on ice. IMO Big, exagerated motions tend to result in punishment by the ice. That's not to say that fore and aft movement goes out the window. I keep my focus on precision and balance, softer motions and fast transitions to get that edge back down. The fast transitions help to keep from accelerating too much between turns which can lead to getting out of control. Control, control, control. Keep a quiet upper body as well - again controlled movement. In soft snow I feel that I am able to toss the board around with reckless abandon. This is strictly hardboots though. I have no experience with softboots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 IMO Big, exagerated motions tend to result in punishment by the ice. That's not to say that fore and aft movement goes out the window. I keep my focus on precision and balance, softer motions and fast transitions to get that edge back down. x2 - you will get to the point where the fore/aft movement becomes part of staying balanced, part of the flow, not an intentional movement. The conditions dictate how much you need to push/pull the board through a turn. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 I exclusively ride soft boots. My angles are a little steeper than yours at 57 rear, 54 front. Yesterday(1/6) I went riding and for the first time this year conditions were icy. When this happens I concentrate on pressuring my front foot by loading my weight forward and over my edge as much as possible. The next thing I think about is squaring my shoulders and driving with both knees. I don't worry to much about falling back or weighting aft because as I drive through my carves and flex my knees, aft weighting naturally occurs. It just so happens that I have really concentrated on squaring my shoulders the last two years after taking advice from a 17 year old racer who critiqued my riding. It has helped tremendously on icy conditions and is the one thing I have done wrong for years. No matter the snow pack, either soft, medium, or hard, riding packed powder takes average technique. Even on steeper black diamonds. Riding ice, is a different story. You must be on your game. Driving with your knees, weighting the front of the board and squaring your shoulders all must be done or you are sliding your turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted February 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 What do you mean by "driving with both knees"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 ...instead just throwing it on an edge being centered helped me get down the run better. You may have answered your own question. If you listen to your board, it will tell you where to stand, when to stand there, and when to stand elsewhere. I stay light on my feet while I'm on ice. A good idea. I keep my focus on precision and balance, softer motions and fast transitions to get that edge back down. Although being 'fast' in the transition could be misinterpreted as being somewhat rushed. Consider a transition with timing and application that is smooth enough so as to seem like there is no transition. This would imply that your 'edging movements' and pressure management are in proportion to the job at hand. Or foot, as is more the case. Tilt your board evenly with both feet. Corkscrews are for wine bottles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I am just worried I might get "lazy" if I "listen to the board" I know in better conditions (or maybe it's better for all conditions?) Sometimes I get "lazy" with my unweighting, meaning there is a slight flat spot between the trenches where my board goes flat, if I go at it aggressively, I get air for a split second doing a cross-through and my trench marks are much "closer". Last year while learning how to bend the knees to unweight, what I thought was a lot of knee flex/extend was barely any knee movement in reality when I saw my own shadow riding at night. I'm afraid this might be true for my fore/aft this year, so I've just been thinking if I just exaggerate the hell out of it, everything would be fine as too much might be better than too little, especially if I get into the habit of thinking "too little" is "quite a lot" like I did last year with my knee flex/extend movements. I'm afraid of plateauing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I am just worried I might get "lazy" if I "listen to the board" Too many riders 'talk', when they should be 'listening', and their riding suffers for it. 'Active observation' perhaps? Sometimes I get "lazy" with my unweighting, meaning there is a slight flat spot between the trenches where my board goes flat, if I go at it aggressively, I get air for a split second doing a cross-through and my trench marks are much "closer". An elongated flat spot at the transition implies that your progress across the board is proportionally slower than your glide rate. The knee articulation involved in your down-unweighting may simply rock the board from one edge to the other at a faster pace; and it may be the faster tilt, rather than pressure application/reduction, which affects your trench marks. If you're getting air, you're not doing cross-through, and vice-versa. Last year while learning how to bend the knees to unweight, what I thought was a lot of knee flex/extend was barely any knee movement in reality when I saw my own shadow riding at night. I'm afraid this might be true for my fore/aft this year, so I've just been thinking if I just exaggerate the hell out of it, everything would be fine as too much might be better than too little, especially if I get into the habit of thinking "too little" is "quite a lot" like I did last year with my knee flex/extend movements. Well, to paraphrase the poet William Blake, from 'Proverbs of Hell' "Just enough! Or too much!" It's a fine line, and hard snow is not tolerant of surplus. I'm afraid of plateauing. A plateau is often the result of faithfully executing the wrong movements at the wrong time, and getting better and better at doing so. To move past a plateau, one needs to recognize which inputs are appropriate, which are superfluous, and which are absent. Quality riding is more about minimalism than excess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Elongated, how much? My flat spot continues from the end of one arc to the next (it almost looks like two joined C's, but with a flat spot between them instead of untouched snow between, and a bit further apart) Are you sure about the air/cross-through thing? My knees are hitting my chest sometimes, or maybe I think I'm getting a minimal amount of air (when I mean air, I mean minimal, it feels like when I push after the edge change my board has just landed, I'm going on this feeling --> words), maybe. lol Should the unweighting be almost natural? I mean either way, I'm still able to switch edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Airborne transition = up-unweighing/cross-over. Knees hitting chest = excessive or off-ballance... When I get a flat spot in the transition, the way you described it, I often didn't do enough of ankle/knee effort in the transittion to flip the board, but relied on body mass to drag it over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Are you sure about the air/cross-through thing? Yes. Although I am not so sure about your description of what you are doing, Vs. what you are doing. I might be misunderstanding you. One of the salient points of the cross-through concept, is that it allows a rider to use the upper body mass, rather than the supporting surface, as a 'base of support'. (The path of the CM can easily become more predictable and dependable than the snow surface). To that end, one should not displace this mass 'vertically' any more than necessary, as this tends to lead to varying pressure outputs underfoot, which in turn makes the path of the CM less predictable. And that of course defeats the purpose. So, if you (or your board) are getting airborne at the transitions, you are not utilizing cross-through. Your 'knees hitting your chest' indicates that you are, in effect, bottoming out your suspension system. Like the tie wrap on a set of Moto-x forks, this contact indicates that you are using full travel at least every so often, but ideally, you should not aim to do this on every turn. So far as your un-weighting, how you go about that is up to you and your desired outcome. Vary the intensity and duration until you find something that works reliably on the prevalent surface. Apply the same to your edge change mechanism. Aim to find the eye of the storm, rather than evidence of its passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Learning would be so much faster if one could see themselves on cam lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted February 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 **Update** Beckerman, I think you're right with the listen to the board thing. I realized when I was on a rutted slope, the slight "oh ****" feeling I got at times was actually me realizing I had to put weight on the board "here" so I wouldn't skid out, I was pretty soon holding some G's with confidence and feel. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 **Update**Beckerman, I think you're right with the listen to the board thing. I realized when I was on a rutted slope, the slight "oh ****" feeling I got at times was actually me realizing I had to put weight on the board "here" so I wouldn't skid out, I was pretty soon holding some G's with confidence and feel. Thank you! You're welcome. If more riders rode with 'feel', there would be more riders feeling good about their riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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