snowboard boots or ski boots ?

[M.Nash]

Just getting back into riding/racing after a 10 year lay off . I have always used race ski boots in the past , but had to modify them big time . I have been looking at using the tecnica diablo race 130 . Also would like some insite on bindings bombers verses cat bindings . I will be on Volkl boards rt 163 and 173's.

[LeeW]

if you still have those boots, and money's an issue with new snowboard boots, use 'em til you get board boots. i got UPZ that'll do both-- skiing and snowboarding. i need to look up old forums if I come across troubles with skiing with 'em UPZ. fin, any luck? bindings -- dont think they'll work with ski boots ?

[Gecko]

if so then both Cateks and Bombers will likely work with Skiboots...if you are set on Skiboots I'd use Bombers...the extra flex is gonna be necessary

[bobdea]

suck for most people they are rough for most people stiff in the wrong places and soft in the wrong places

plus they are really long and require high angles

if you just gotta ride in skiboots I recomend cateks you can fine tune the canting alot more

with ski boots that is a big help

with SB hardboots ot will come down to preference I have both bombers and cateks with the narrow and long boards I prefer cateks(I really need the fine tuning that they offer)

bombers go on everything else because they are rugged and responsive and need not be fiddled with like the cateks

[M.Nash]

Thanks for the input so far. So what snowboard boots work the best and where can you get them?

[Enzo]

Where are you located in NH?

Try Startingate in VT:

http://www.startingate.net/index.php3?gallery=-65-Snowboard_Boots&info=Alpine

Ski Fanatics near Waterville Valley has a size 11 Deeluxe Suzuka on display. They're waiting on a shipment from Raichle and are supposed to have most sizes of the Suzuka in stock for the upcoming winter. Also, they can special order boots & bindings from Raichle/Deeluxe for you.

[M.Nash]

Thanks for the info Enzo I wil have to head up to ski fanatics and check them out. I'm just out side of Concord

[kipstar]

I am in the same camp; I bought a pair of UPS boots a few years back, but found them just way too soft (and previously also had a pair of raichle snowboard boots which were so soft too).

FOr me, I think the only ski boots to consider are soft flexing ones, like the old Raichle flexon series from the early 90s. In fact, compared to the poorly designed UPS boots (which bow out when flexed forward), the raichles were actually made out of decent plastic. The raichles were well known as a ski boot for being very soft in forward flex, and having a constant flex using a tongue system; far better than an overlap design like most ski boots or the hmmm burton boots which used to also be overlap as well.

THe issue of lateral flex is not that important for me, since I would prefer none. BUt I don't know whether the super stiff new generation of bindings would be so pleasant if that were the case. There is not backward flex either, so the heelside turns can be far crisper if all the conditions are right, but in choppy snow, if ends up being fairly tough on the knees. I've seen the extreme carving guys, and to be honest, I can't see that what they are doing is that different to what I am doing from the waist to the feet on a heelside turn; I can get just as low; I just choose not to break at the waist to head bit 'cause i don't see the point in trying to lie down on the snow.

And just to clarify, back in the day when I rode in USA, most of the top riders Tom Tuttle etc in the mid 90s were also riding raichle ski boots on Mammoth back then too. I saw virtually no other decent riders back then on ski boots of any other brand. There was a good racer in New Zealand who had langes, but he was 100kg and a former ski racer, so he knew how to load them up.

The bindings are an ongoing problem though; burtons snowpros and so on don't work with the reduced thickness of the sole. I have a pair of oxygen bindings which work well, but I am always worried if they break. The aluminium bindings would be very very stiff IMHO, because the ski boots have a solid sole, not a rubber sole. I like and prefer this with my current set up, but with ultra stiff bindings I am not so sure it would be good.

The sole length is also a problem; I only have a 27.5 foot, so not any overhang really, plus I am on a 20cm waist board.

The nice thing, is that the weight is loaded up in the cuff of the boot, using he old raichles and UPS I really hated the toeside, where you couldn't do that. The heelside was ok, but the toeside was so soft, that I had less edge hold and it felt blah. Fine for good quality Mammoth/Tahoe snow, but in New Zealand it gets very icy, so edge hold becomes important.

I would like to get a new pair of boots though, and will be checking out the latest from Dee Luxe; but UPS uses soft plastic in their boots, so I don't think I'll waste my money again! (brand new, full retail, used for 30 minutes!).

Kip

[Jack M]

This online store has good selection and will work with you on fit.

[Guest Randy S.]

If you do a search, you'll find lots of info on this subject. That said, here are some of my thoughts. I've owned Raichle, UPS and now Head boots.

If you want to see someone ride hard on Raichle Flexon ski boots, go hang around Waterville and find Anton Pogue. He's there coaching a kid named Trappy this season. He's got a pair of the Raichle boots with so many mods and repairs it is hilarious and surprising they don't just fall apart.

UPS boots would make crappy ski boots for anyone who is a good skier. They'd be way too soft. Plus the way they built the soles, the screws holding the soles to the boot wear down so fast that after a few uses, you can't remove them w/out drilling. If you want to ski and board, I say you need two sets of boots (unless you decide you can get away with riding in ski boots). Otherwise the UPS (now UPZ) boots are good. They fit a wider foot pretty well and they have the shortest sole length of any brand I've seen. Mine have about 100 days on them and are still servicable (although I just retired them and replaced them with Heads).

If the Raichle (now DeeLuxe) fit you well, that should work. I think you have a couple of options to try them on in NE so that's encouraging. I couldn't get them to fit me properly (either style) in the newer 423 or AFxxx models, even with Thermoflex. Also, I found that I kept popping the buckles open when I flexed the boot hard. Lastly, I hate the ratchet-style buckles. I like traditional buckles where I can get the same setting for each run and not have to mess around after un-buckling on the lift.

I now have 2 days on my new Head Stratos Pros. With the stiffer tongue in them, they come close to being stiff enough for me. I weigh 200lbs these days. I haven't messed with the flex adjustment spring in the back yet and that may be able to additionally stiffen things up a bit. I find I get a bit of pressure in my instep, but I'm working with a boot-fitter on that. Day 2 was much better than day 1. The construction of the boot seems top-notch. The walk-ride mechanism is well designed (way better than the UPZ) and only lacks a good way to see where you have lean set so you can repeat the settings after lunch (if you put them in walk mode in the lodge). I rode them on one hard-pack day and one powder day. They were awesome in powder on my Donek FC1. I'll post a more thorough review once I've had 8-10 days on them.

[kipstar]

Randy... you and another private message have me intrigued with the head boots....I may yet be able to actually fit a snowboard boot purpose made after all!

- how much forward lean do they have? The UPSs were quite a bit mroe than I like, cause I ride with not much forward lean at all (mind you on ski boots with no backward flex you don't really need that buffer of flex before you start to turn)

- they are definitely stiffer than the raichles, correct?

- how is the heel hold of the heel cup?

- in your opinion, do they fit narrow, wide, or duck type feet, and is the instep high or low affecting the top of your foot?

I may just have to buy a pair, and use for more than the day I got on the UPSs!

Kip

[Guest Randy S.]

Originally posted by kipstar

- how much forward lean do they have? The UPSs were quite a bit mroe than I like, cause I ride with not much forward lean at all (mind you on ski boots with no backward flex you don't really need that buffer of flex before you start to turn)

- they are definitely stiffer than the raichles, correct?

- how is the heel hold of the heel cup?

- in your opinion, do they fit narrow, wide, or duck type feet, and is the instep high or low affecting the top of your foot?Kip

Let's see if I can answer everything.

1) Fwd Lean: I haven't messed with adjusting the forward lean or the flex yet. I was pretty comfortable with them on the stock settings, but I suspect I'm going to tighten up the flex a bit, which will also make them a bit more upright if I don't compensate. I tend to set my front foot more upright and my rear foot with more lean angle.

2) Which Raichles? I'm not sure if they are stiffer than the stiffest race Raichles with race tongues. They could probably be stiffer, but so far I'm happy. As stated above, I really need to mess with the flex settings this coming weekend. Right now I have 1 hard pack and 1 powder day on them

3) I'm pretty happy with the heel hold out of the box. I've had problems with previous boots in this area. I've always added padding around the ankle to hold my heel down better. I may or may not need to do this to the Heads after the liners pack out a bit. Right now they seem pretty good.

4) I have wide (E width shoes), with a somewhat high instep, somewhat flat feet and I'm slightly naturally duck-footed (left likes to turn out a few degrees). I have Surefoot custom insoles in the Heads which covers my flat footedness. I could probably get the insoles re-made if the above mentioned heel hold problem becomes an issue. I've already made some minor mods to the liner and shell to accomodate my high instep (minor trimming). The duck-footed issue has nothing to do with boots IMO. Deal with that through bindings. I suspect that they would work fine for a narrower foot too, since the lower boot is heat-molded to your foot and that would probably take up the extra space. Plus they are snug on me.