High West Distillery

[utahcarver]

As an employee of the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control here in Utah, I am going through a product knowledge class that is put on by the agency. We've covered wines, beers, liqueurs and cordials. Today, we got a field trip to Park City to the High West distillery highwest.com. Our DABC group had a great tour through the whole process of making vodka and whiskey. Our host, Brandon, is the Master Distiller there and is very much on the cutting edge of trying new ideas and making them taste very good.

We got to try 4 of their products: Vodka 7000 (made from oats), High West Silver Whiskey (made from oats), Rendezvous Rye, and Rocky Mountain Rye (16 Y.O.). I enjoyed them all but, I especially liked the Silver whiskey (80 proof). So much, that I bought a liter ($35/w tax) to bring home and do some mixing with. As I sipped it there in the bar, I tasted banana and vanilla notes, which I thought was really odd for a whiskey. I'll mainly sip through this bottle but I'd also like to make some mixers near the end of it.

Has anyone else mixed with light whiskey? Any good mixer recipes? Anyway, the next time you're in Park City, be sure and check out this amazing distillery and bar.

Mark

[bobdea]

duuuuuuuuuuuude! so, I know this guy, he distills his batches of beer he does not like. white whiskey is basically 'shine or if made with oats, barley or rye by a person who is actually irish or of irish decent you get something not much different than poutin. usually has a distinct banana note, guessing that's due to the yeast and grains used. it's the same estery taste found in some some beers.

the color in distilled spirits is usually from oak if it's a whiskey.

good moonshine tends to have some hints of those flavors too.

do they use the old school copper stills there?

here's a link to what possibly gave way to modern whiskey http://homedistiller.org/wash-grain2.htm

'shine makes a good sour with your favorite sour mix, and will generally will work with anything other whites will. that excludes vodka because vodka generally lacks any good flavor notes IMO. even shine from corn if well made is pretty good. even to this booze snob.

one of the better bottles of rum I've come across is made in MA http://www.berkshiremountaindistillers.com/indexMain.php

[utahcarver]

Bob: Good call on the esters being fruity (mostly banana). It mixed really well with lemon and lime juice, orange juice, and just a splash of Cointreau. One might be inclined to call this moonshine or white lightning but, I wouldn't compare it to either when it comes to ethanol percentage.

Jim: I'm a cashier. There, I said it. Actually, I'm an Executive cashier (see: Eddie Izzard for reference). Last year I left the printing industry with a shove and decided to go back to school and finish a degree. I've had a part-time job at the DABC for over 5 years and I applied for a full-time position. The job allows me to go to school during the day and work at night. I'm 51 and not left with a lot of options in press-work or printing. So, this is my life.

As far as the craziness, it's retail. Retail sucks and retail with drunks is even more stupid. As for you not ever living in Utah, nothing could make me smile more. Nothing personal, I understand your position having lived out of Utah many years ago myself. Some of the best snow conditions on earth, four seasons, low crime rates, quiet neighborhoods, and Sundays are the BOMB because there are so many people locked up in church. So, I am smiling when I hear that oft-heard mantra of someone not ever living in Utah. Stay where you are so that I don't have to put up with you or your friends. BTW, I've never had a problem getting a drink here. So, these Draconian laws you reference, yes, they have been problematic in years past but, I assure you that they've never stood in the way of me getting a good alcohol buzz on any day of the week.

As far as your beloved Dogfish or Stone beers, I can't come close to offering an answer to not having those in the state. We get to sell what the State tells us to sell. This happens in 15 other CONTROL States across our union everyday. Utah is not the lone holdout when it comes to controlling alcoholic beverages. Utah uses the override and taxes collected to fund education. So, in reality, Utahns are drinking for their children. It makes no sense to me to deride a state for controlling alcohol sales. Which one or more of the other 15 states would you not live in? Agreed, it would not be easy to live in a state which does things this way but, to call it Draconian is a bit of a stretch. That may have been accurate in the past but certainly not now.

To me, it was exciting to see some progress being made in Utah with the addition of the High West distillery in Park City. I can only hope that this trend will continue and help to assuage the assumption that all of us here are religious bigots and pliant drones to the State.

Mark

[bobdea]

Bob: Good call on the esters being fruity (mostly banana). It mixed really well with lemon and lime juice, orange juice, and just a splash of Cointreau. One might be inclined to call this moonshine or white lightning but, I wouldn't compare it to either when it comes to ethanol percentage.

ehh, depends on how you run your still and if you redistill, 'shine is pretty broad AFAIk most spirits start at a high ABV and then are mixed down with water and sometimes other things. most corn whiskey and shine I've had has not been too crazy, probably south of 70%.

[utahcarver]

Jim: I know you weren't calling me a religious bigot, I used that term and not you. My intent was to convey how perceptions of those outside of the Utah are sometimes tainted with apoplectic reasoning that is based on outdated information. So, I get a bit irked about this sometimes. All that just to tell the CC about a distillery in Utah!

As to those who make the laws here: Yes, they are driven by an internal locus that is egged-on by religious belief. Not that there is anything wrong with that. However, as you so aptly pointed out, it has long caused Utah to be perceived as being somewhat behind the times. Point taken.

I'm glad that I have an opportunity to learn about wines, beers, spirits, and the processes that make them, and I'm doing it at the expense of the State of Utah. Yes, you can drink without ordering food or, at least I have done this. No, you cannot order beer (3.2 ABV) or hard liquor after 1am. and prior to 7am. At the DABC store, our Breakfast rush starts at 10am and runs until about 11:45am, which starts our lunch rush....

BTW, the Silver Oats whiskey is very nice served neat.

Mark

[twelsch42]

As far as your beloved Dogfish or Stone beers, I can't come close to offering an answer to not having those in the state.

If you've never had one you wouldn't understand. I wouldn't be comfortable living in a state w/o Stone, or Avery or Odell's. And beer's not even my substance of choice. All things considered I feel pretty lucky to live in Colorado.

To each his own.

[utahcarver]

Jim: Our sales volume has been on the up in the last 12 months. However, we are starting to see a drop-off in volume. Part of that is the (university) semester has ended and summer school isn't that populated. The other is assumed to be that people just don't have the money to spend on booze.

That said, just as you stated, alcohol sales are up in comparison to other economic areas. I read several trade magazines which are projecting better than normal sales and there are so many new offerings from all areas of the industry. Even in the control states, the projection is for increased sales volumes in most categories.

My wine customers are the most loyal while at the same time being the most price conscious. They have to be in Utah. They are savvy and informed. In contrast, the Vodka drinkers have moved to the bottom shelves for the bargains. Taste seems to have taken a backseat when the wallet is thinning. Whiskey is similar but, Crown Royal (aka Clown Oil) has increased in sales. I guess even in a down economy folks want to feel reassured, warm, and comfortable and hoping things will get better. The beer drinkers seem to be the most oblivious to any economic downturn. Our beer sales are through the roof. Sam Adams is doing very well and so is anything from Full Sail Brewing and Sierra Nevada Brewing.

I've recently put in charge of ordering beers so I will be trying to access the Dogfish beers that so many of you here are fond of. I'm limited by the State as to what I can order. I recently ordered a case of hefeweizen from Sierra Nevada (Kellerweis) and I had no trouble getting it here. So, I'm hoping the same for other beers as well.

The thing I'm often telling my co-workers and some customers is that if the State of Utah ever allows independent liquor and wine sales, I'm the first one who's going to do it. I already have a store location and a name picked out for my business. It will be just down the road from my ski area, Beaver Mountain. I'll call it Beaver Liquors. I figure the t-shirt sales, stickers, and the novelty items will help to carry the stores sales volume requirements.

Thanks,

Mark

[bobdea]

I'll call it Beaver Liquors. I figure the t-shirt sales, stickers, and the novelty items will help to carry the stores sales volume requirements.

Thanks,

Mark

there's already one in Avon CO, best marketing around though they used to to share radio ad with this place http://www.marxudall.com/masterbaittackle.html

[utahcarver]

OK, so it won't be the first one but, it will be the first one in northern Utah. Someone told me that there was (State) liquor store in Beaver, Utah. Let's face it, though: The chances of Utah government giving up it's alcohol control status are about the same odds as Rosie O'Donnell giving up all you can eat buffets.

Mark

[Pat Donnelly]

Mark - see if you can order Torpedo http://www.sierranevada.com/beers/torpedo.html

[kieran]

if you've any discerning beer drinkers who like something different now and again ...

http://www.beerpal.com/McEwans-Champion-Beer/11178/

http://www.beerpal.com/Orkney-Skullsplitter--Beer/878/

the skullsplitter is particularly deceptive.

the champion ages well, we've some that were in a cool dark place for about 6 years, and they got really chocolaty.

[Michelle]

there's already one in Avon CO, best marketing around though they used to to share radio ad with this place http://www.marxudall.com/masterbaittackle.html

This is in Heeney, not Avon. They only wish. :)

I love Utah's nature and all that it has to offer, summer and winter. I also think that most places in Utah have strange people/vibes which is my deal with living there. Every place has their own liquor laws - being born and raised in New Orleans I didn't know this until my later years living in Colorado. the vibe for me is essential - and I have yet to see/feel that anywhere in UT. I'm still looking becuase it is a wonderfully beautiful state.

[utahcarver]

Pat: Yes, we carry Torpedo and it is a great beer. I prefer the Sierra Nevada Porter but, yes, Torpedo is a fast-seller, too. Going skateboard racing tomorrow with some buds and we've loaded the cooler with SN porter and Full Sail Session beers.

Michelle: You bring an interesting point to this mix. That is, the vibe of an area. Unlike other areas of the US, Utah's 'vibe' is fleeting if just non-existent. I think what I really like about Utah over say, Colorado or Oregon, is that the vibe isn't here. I like living here without a vibe. So, I'm backward that way.

I hate sounding like an apologist in my posts above and then saying that I don't mind being backward now. What I'm suggesting is that I'm willing to accept living in a society which is more conservative and judgemental in exchange for the beauty of the land and access to 4 seasons, with low crime rates and quiet Sundays. I love that there are distilleries and breweries in Utah. If anyone has studied the history of this state, one could determine that alcohol has always been legally (and illegally) available here. The vibe, not so much!

Mark

BTW, I got to taste the 21 year old HW Rye. It is a dangerous liquid (to quote their website). Very velvety and smooth. Dare I say, too smooth? Anyway, it was a delight to try something so damned expensive yet a rye that any spirits drinker can appreciate.

[k2slopesurfer]

Every place has their own liquor laws - being born and raised in New Orleans I didn't know this until my later years living in Colorado.

I had the same experience when I moved from my native New Orleans to California. They almost pissed themselves when I asked about a go-cup...lol.

I didn't know you were from the city Michelle. Nice to know, I'm headed down to see my grandma this week.

Now I live in a state with ABC stores and all that, but it doesn't bother me cause I no longer imbibe.

[Michelle]

HA! I didn't know you were from NO! I grew up in River Ridge but most of my "younger" adult years were in Metairie. I was just back for Jazz Fest and have lots of friends/relatives that still live there. We'll have to swap stories someday.

What are you doing going back in June? It's already close to 100 there .

[Michelle]

They almost pissed themselves when I asked about a go-cup...lol..

I know that you spelled go-cup for all the people out there that can't say things with u's and x's in the same word

Geaux Cup, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Saints!!! It's awesome that I can order a drink and be able to take it with me when I leave the bar, friend's house, etc. Not that I drink, but what I've heard :rolleyes: It's also really nice to be able to buy any kind of alcohol, even the highest form of grain alcohol, anywhere at any time of the day or night. And what the heck is 3-2 beer? Or ABC stores for that matter? Didn't hear either of those two statements before i moved to CO. Got totally thrown off by having to order a "sidecar" when in Park City.

[skatha]

There's drive-thru sales in TX, but no "to-go" cups, unfortunately

As for Utah, I was refused entry into the bar section of a restaurant where my husband was having a beer, looking at his email, because I had my kids with me. In CO, I have seen a woman breastfeeding her kid at a bar. So which is the true "family friendly" state?

Just sayin'....

As I was hunting around for just what vodka was made from because I thought it was potaotes, I found this....

http://thespiritworld.net/2007/01/29/vodka/

[k2slopesurfer]

HA! I didn't know you were from NO! I grew up in River Ridge but most of my "younger" adult years were in Metairie. I was just back for Jazz Fest and have lots of friends/relatives that still live there. We'll have to swap stories someday.

What are you doing going back in June? It's already close to 100 there .

Lmao! Too funny! I grew up in St. Charles Parish, in Luling. I lived in the city starting around age 15, and my last place during college was in the Lower Garden District, half a block off the parade route.

We did the Jazz fest thing last year, but I'm going down this time so I can go to Disneyworld with my Grandmother and my nephews... Somehow I doubt that'll be any cooler.:smashfreaBut you know how it is, just couldn't say no when she asked.

And as for the "eaux," my first two semesters in college at age 16 were spent at "Harvard on the Bayou" in Thibodeaux. My friends in NC laughed when I told em we had pirogue races in the bayou every spring.

Ok, to get back to the original topic, I would have been extremely interested in trying new liquors back when I was in college, so have fun with that.

[Michelle]

Lmao! Too funny! I grew up in St. Charles Parish, in Luling. I lived in the city starting around age 15, and my last place during college was in the Lower Garden District, half a block off the parade route.

HA! I have really good friends that live in Luling, and my cousin lives off of St Charles. My friend I stay with for JF lives in Lakeview - she bought one of the flooded homes and restored it. Small world, 'huh? If you go to Jazz FEst next year, definitely drop me a line. I go every year.

And as for the "eaux," my first two semesters in college at age 16 were spent at "Harvard on the Bayou" in Thibodeaux. My friends in NC laughed when I told em we had pirogue races in the bayou every spring.

OMG that is really funny that you went to school in Thibodeaux! Of course you had pirogue races - what else is there to do? Shrimp? HA HA Imagine, two cajuns here riding hard boots on BOL. My family always asks me what I'm doing here and if I'm still doing that "extreme snowboarding" LOL.

Ok, to get back to the original topic, I would have been extremely interested in trying new liquors back when I was in college, so have fun with that.

Sorry for hijacking the thread but it's just too strange of a coincidence. Back to the original topic.

[utahcarver]

There's drive-thru sales in TX, but no "to-go" cups, unfortunately

As for Utah, I was refused entry into the bar section of a restaurant where my husband was having a beer, looking at his email, because I had my kids with me. In CO, I have seen a woman breastfeeding her kid at a bar. So which is the true "family friendly" state?

Just sayin'....

As I was hunting around for just what vodka was made from because I thought it was potaotes, I found this....

http://thespiritworld.net/2007/01/29/vodka/

So, the breastfeeding woman was drinking for both her and her kid?

Your experience above defines what Utah alcohol laws are aimed at: Keeping alcohol out of the sight of children (and to a point, adults). You and I know this doesn't work. In fact, it only seems to encourage curiosity and desire to experience what is being 'hidden'. But, the local laws here have been driven by a zealotry to keep some things hidden from view. It's overkill and it's stupid by any measure of the imagination. With all of Utah's quirky laws, families keep coming here.

One of the things that seems to keep drawing young families to Utah is the low crime rates, the lack of any bar scene, quiet neighborhoods, and quiet Sundays. I've talked to people from all over North America who've moved to Utah and this seems to be a common theme. The lack of bars, no nightlife to speak of, and your experience in Utah all add up to make an odd mix of lifestyles and experiences coming together. This is what makes Utah unique. Palatable to some and unpalatable to others.

The reason I stay is that I have access to great snow in the winter, and no big-city traffic congestion in the summer. Even that's changing and I'm beginning to rethink about where I'm going to live if I want to remain rural. The families keep coming in and I'm wanting to move out away from the crowds.

And, and, I'm just so glad this humble little thread has been able to unite two wonderful kids from NOLA. Good luck K2 and Michelle!

Mark

[skatha]

At the risk of committing the sin of "TMI", I nursed both my kids. With Katie, I'd come home from work and choke down a glass on milk with brewer's yeast in it because brewer's yeast is alleged to increase your "production". With Tim, the next one, I gave up choking down brewer's yeast and opted for a product just a little further down the production line-Shiner Bock. I wore a "D" cup with Katie and a "DD" cup with Tim. So,yes, I cannot fault the woman for drinking beer while nursing.

I can fault her for smoking at the same time, tho:mad:

As for beer, wine, and spirits, it truly is the recession proof industry. People ditch their doctors and stop their medicine but nobody stops drinking!

[utahcarver]

In one of the product knowledge classes I'm taking for my job at the DABC, one of the reps from a beer distributor referred to beer as liquid bread, in a historical context. Which brought back a memory of reading an expose on processed white sugar which was done by a physician from the UK.

In this expose, in speaking of the need to keep sugar away from brewmeisters in Germany, he referred to beer as liquid bread. Specifically, beer that was used by nursing mothers. Skatha, have you ever heard of this? Or, has anyone else ever heard of this? I realize that, from my American perspective, my information may be skewed or just plain false.

But, as I was thinking the other day, in times past when our ancestors wanted to preserve things they either dried the product (which may or may not have been reconstituted later), they (dry) smoked or salted the product, they used a brine (i.e., vinegar), or they fermented the product. I'm sure I'm missing other means of preservation but, wine is grape juice preserved by fermenting it. Beer is barley (malt) which is preserved by fermenting it. Sauerkraut is cabbage which is preserved by brineing it. Bread is grain which is preserved (albeit) temporarily by adding yeast as a leavening agent. So, when is beer a bad thing to the human body? In excess certainly. But, in overall terms of health, beer is good for us human types. Just as a good red wine gladdens the heart or a well-aged cheese tantilizes the tongue.

Regarding your (Skatha) comment about alcohol being recession-proof: Yeah, about that. We unloaded 2,000 cases (12 pallets) of booze for our store recently (we service an area which is about 50,000 plus in population). That's a weeks worth of product. The product that moves the most? VODKA, baby, VODKA. Next, gin. I can't reveal our sales volume in retail cost or wholesale cost but, I can assure you that someone's kids are going hungry, bills aren't getting paid, and someone is calling in sick once in a while with the 'bottle flu' based upon what I sell during a normal day. Sad really. It's almost made me want to quit this job just from a moral aspect.

Mark

[skatha]

When I took genetics in college, our prof told me the modification that Egyptian horticulturists made to increase the storability of grain led to the form of wheat that made beer and it occurred before the modification that led to the form of grain that made bread. Ancient beer was very sweet and wine-like from what I read-the bitterness comes from adding hops.

When I was active duty AF, the NCOIC of the ER was married to the woman who managed the "Class 6" at Carswell AFB. The "Class 6" in the on-base liquor store and the DoD was closing Carswell. He told me that after all the AD troops had been reassigned and the "Class 6" was operating on retiree business only, the amount of liquor sold on a weekly basis was still 80% of their usual volume before the service draw-down (in the mid-90s)

As for any guilt you may have, remember your customers are adults and are fully capable of making their own bad decisions. I always tell people that, as an ER doc, my job is dependent on people continuing to make bad decisions. I realize you feel bad about the collateral damage and I appreciate that. Too often I see people shrug off collateral damage as unavoidable-like too many of my neighbors and the current situation in the Gulf. But in this instance, you do really need to focus on what you can control. People have been abusing alcohol for millenia. I heard an excellent interview about Prohibition on NPR recently-so the converse of alcohol use isn't problem-free either, as evidenced by this book the interviewee was selling. "Last Call-the Rise and Fall of Prohibition" by Daniel Okrent

BTW, my son is a straight A student, scores perfect scores on his TX TEKS exams, likes to read about science in his spare time, and wants to be a physicist when he grows up. I don't think the beer hurt him:biggthump

[bobdea]

I wore a "D" cup with Katie and a "DD" cup with Tim. So,yes, I cannot fault the woman for drinking beer while nursing.

sounds good, feel free to post pictures.!

[bobdea]

kraut is a fermented product, old school pickles of most types are as well. brine in regard to pickling is salt and water the idea is that the salt inhibits bad things from growing but allows some types of fermentation. this company makes a fine dill pickle http://www.realpickles.com/about.html

skatha, yup, beer used to be much more similar to wine mostly because of the yeast used produces acid these yeasts were present in the air. also, higher acid which in old lambics or flanders reds for example you're getting something with acidity that tastes something like a dry wine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccharomyces_cerevisiae

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambic