Okay...a hardboot binding question. A serious one.

[Alaskan Rover]

Okay...I DO have hardboots....they are just my AT/Randonnee boots...but I have been itching to get them on a board...not necessarily a narrow race board ('cause I have size 13 feet and I like to change my stance angle dependant upon carve/euro at 55/55 or 40/35; all-mountain at 15/5; and a little bit of pipe/park at 15/-15 when I want to [hardboots CAN ride the pipe...I've seen them lots]...so I need a fairly wide board to do all that with my canoe-feet)...but a decent all-mountain board.

My hardboots are Scarpa Denali XT (the blue ones...a little stiffer)...I realize they are not dedicated hardboots, but they are what I have and they need to be multi-purpose. The board I can find...I am looking at 163 Option Supercharger...and also a split board (make not decided yet). So my question is mainly about bindings, then. These boots will basically fit ANY binding, I think...but there is a monkey-wrench thrown in:

Bindings: My present hardboot bindings for these Scarpas are Black Diamond Fritsche Freeride...great bindings for AT, but I think useless for a board unless the board is like 2 feet wide!...they just wouldn't fit...so they're out...they'll stay on my AT stuff. So I am looking for hardboot bindiings/plates that would fit the Scarpa's that would be easy and quick to change stance on-mountain, fit standard four-hole alignments, AND be able to switch to a Nordic setting for use on the split-board for skinning and route approaches in the flats, BUT still be able to do a decent hard-scrabble carve in the steep hard stuff. Some peaks have VERY HARD-crusty snow due to sublimation and day/night temperature differentials. Becomes like 45 degree slope hard-pack. I know that trying to find a binding that does ALL these well is a really a recipe for doing NOTHING well...but I am hopeful that there is maybe something out there that will fit this difficult bill. Any suggestions? If they DIDN'T need to switch to nordic for split-boarding, it would be an easy answer me thinks. Guess I am looking for some sort of plate/binding SUPER-BINDING that doesn't exist yet.

[Jon Dahl]

Sorry I didn't answer your email over the weekend. You need a set of dedicated plate bindings for your solid board. I recomend finding some SnowPro bindings, here used or new through the UPZ site of Dan Yoja, or some TD2-3's. For the split, you will need a set of splitboard specific bindings, such as the Voile mountain plate or Bomber split bindings. Both attach to the slider track, which in turn slids onto the pucks. On the split, if you had Dynafit compatible boots, you could get a set of toe's only and attach them to the split in place of the pivots for the slider tracks, thus eliminating the slider track on the uphill. You should go to Voile's website and do some research on the splitboard stuff, then go to splitboard.com and look around. Hardbooters are in the minority there, too, but several use 'em. Feel free to send me any questions via email. I will answer them...usually quicker than this!

[Alaskan Rover]

Thanks for Answering, Jon. Yeah, I've been on the Voille website and what I am wondering is that the Voille split-board bindings seem to be mostly for powder applications in the downhill mode, and as you know the dynamics of being on an edge/carve are totally different than in the powder. I am sure if those Voille bindings/plates would have the "stomach" for the ice and sublimated hard-crust top crusts that are often found on the Alaskan/yukon peaks. Bindings being the price they are, I would like to be able to switch the bindings form my regular solid board to my split-board and still have them work well for hard-crust all mountain stuff on edge. I realize that is a LOT to ask from one binding...ha ha. :)

[Jon Dahl]

The Voile binding isn't too bad if you are a lighter rider.(I'm 165-ish) After switching to the Bomber binding for the split, I've found they are a lot better for ice/crud than Voile's stuff. No one makes a binding that can be used for both. You could use an existing binding on the slider track and switch it back and forth, but the total stacked height on top of the slider track would be too much, in my mind. Some people (me included) have taken the toe/heal blocks off of various plate bindings and attached them directly to the slider plate, just rather labor intensive to re-use on your solid board. I have seen where someone put the nylon blocks onto a solid board, so they could just switch back and forth between solid and splitboards. Not my cup of tea...

[ShortcutToMoncton]

1. Buy used pair of F2s in large ($160)

2. Buy Bomber split binding ($?)

3. ????Ride????

There are your options, and there is your answer.

[Alaskan Rover]

Thanks again for your thorough reply...it certainly helps to be able to talk with someone who's had experience with the splits. Your point on the Voille bindings mirrors my own feelings. They look like a decent set-up but not sure if heavy-duty enough for long-term routes and what have you, especially since I am 6'3" and 200 pounds in socks. I will look into the Bomber binding/plates you speak of.

I may very end up devising some sort of hybrid that will maybe work for both ice/carving AND have a nordic type skinning adaptation for uphills and approach routes. I've got an idea in mind.....I'll need a big box of miscellaneous parts to put it together...ha ha. Anyway, thanks for your studious input.

Gravity IS Life.

[Buell]

Hey Alaskan,

You and Jon are headed in the right direction.

I was assuming your weight was probably in line with your boot size, it is.

My opinion is that you are right to be afraid of the Voile Mountain Plates. I rode on a pair all of last year's powder and volcano climbing season. Even at my 145 pounds I am very terrified of them on steep firm corn descents.

I am a light weight and have pretty small feet. I use F2 bindings for carving and F2 toe and heel bails off a different set (I use modified Scarpa F1s for splitting) mounted to the Voile plate for splitboarding. I really like that set up and feel safe when things are critical.

The F2 mod for splitting will not work for bigger feet and at 200 pounds, Bomber TD2, 3, or Sidewinders are probably better durability wise for you (although there are 200 pounders on F2s) for carving. If the money is there, go for the Sidewinders, if not, a used pair of TD2s should work really well for you carving.

For split bindings, bomber split bindings, at your weight and lines you want to ride, are probably the best option for you. You can occasionally find them used on Splitboard.com if you are patient.

Good luck.

[heroshmero]

You can occasionally find them used on Splitboard.com if you are patient.

It appears that site is gone.

[Buell]

It is MIA at the moment, but hopefully it returns soon. It would be a huge loss.

[Jon Dahl]

will be up in the next 24 hours.

[Jon Dahl]

$179.99 and sold out. Does this mean we will get the Sidewinder Splitboard binding???

[heroshmero]

$179.99 and sold out. Does this mean we will get the Sidewinder Splitboard binding???

That's not a bad idea... put Sidewinder uppers on the Voile slider. I wonder if the screw holes would line up.

[NateW]

...and I like to change my stance angle dependant upon carve/euro at 55/55 or 40/35; all-mountain at 15/5; and a little bit of pipe/park at 15/-15 when I want to [hardboots CAN ride the pipe...I've seen them lots]

50+ angles can work in the pipe too. :)

If it's switch riding that makes you favor the duck stance, consider spending a few runs working on switch riding with 35-55 degree angles. Skid 180, link a couple turns, skid back to forward, repeat until it's second nature.

It's nowhere near as hard as it might seem... if you can ride switch, you can ride switch. It might take a bit of experimenting to figure out how to arrange your body (upper body especially - I try to keep my lower body in the same position regardless of direction). But it's not significantly harder, it's just different.

For reasons that I don't understand, I'm more comfortable riding switch at 55/60 than I was at 45/40 on my older wider boards.

I have no idea where to find the dual-purpose bindings you're looking for, though.

[b0ardski]

http://www.sparkrandd.com/products/dynafits/

although they're not yet making hardboot adapter plates, at least somebody is making a better system than the 20 yr old tech Voile puck & slider which always seemed a bit low tech & sloppy.

[Alaskan Rover]

Thank you, Jon Dahl, Buell, ShortcutToMoncton, Herosmero and NateW for all your suggestions. I am now thinking of looking at the TD2 or TD3. I'll see what the Sidewinders cost. I had serious resignations about the Voille Mountains after seeing the pix of them.

Up in Alaska I get most of my gear from outdoor-gear swapmeets, and I know in the mountain states and Pac. Northwest they likewise have many also. Here in Virginia, though, I find most of the outdoor swapmeets center themselves around hunting/fishing with nearly no winter gear, except for the odd pair of Olin Mark IIIs skis (damn good skis, BTW...nearly bombproof!!...I have friends that STILL use them..ha ha) and even older black Heads with leather Lange boots. Since all the snows, I have been trying to find a pair of snowshoes and X-country skis to use while here since all my backcountry gear is up in Ak. No one has any ANYWHERE!!! I guess that is akin to shopping for beach apparel in Greenland.

I LOVE to tinker, and whatever plates/bindings I get for split-boarding and to throw on my regular board, I will no doubt be tinkering with them to....even if they work fine right out of the box. Tinkering is in my blood. I don't think I have ANY equipment that I haven't screwed with in SOME fashion. Heck, the Wright Brothers were endless tinkers!! Not that I am anywhere NEAR their tinker/designing prowess!

NateW: I very seldom use the 15/-15 duckfoot stance, but I do occasionally. I can sometimes initiate a spin better with it, though. I haven't tried the 55/50 stance too much on my board, but I often use angle of 40/35 to good all around effect. Good advice about practicing switch. Concerning switch: I guess that is why I am often ride at 15/5 because I find I can more easily olly to switch at that angle...switch at 40/35 or 45/45 feels like when I used to try and ski backwards...which I was never good at! I have great admiration for people who can switch at 55/55 or 45/45, though!

[b0ardski]

I learned to ride switch alpine style, heels 1st, long ago and found those skills made skiing switch easier.

As to tinkering, I think the sparks plate (better interface) with toe and heel blocks of any good plate binding would be the best split setup available.

[Buell]

As to tinkering, I think the sparks plate (better interface) with toe and heel blocks of any good plate binding would be the best split setup available.

I have an unfinished conversation with Will (Spark) about putting the F2 toe and heel on the Spark binding plates. Obviously it would be a modification and I need to find out if he thinks his base plate is strong enough to be T-nutted since it is designed to have softboot binding hardware mounted to its sides, instead of through the top / bottom like the Voile slider.

He has been working on a plate binding with lateral flex (much like the Sidewinder), but it did not make it out of prototyping last year. I am not sure where he stands at the moment, but it looks like the prototype design is on hold. He is still interested in producing a splitboard plate binding, but it seems his softboot splitboard binding is so successful that he is having a hard time finding time to finish the plate binding project.

[Alaskan Rover]

B0ardski:

Yeah...I've heard good things about the DynaFits...I don't quite recognize that yellow lug-sole boot in the set-up...looks like a touring boot more than a climbing hardshell.

For solid board non-splitboard set-up, I have been tossing around the idea of a sort of hardboot/binding amalgamation. Thinking of like a channel system in the bottom of the boot and a board-top T-track that the boot would slide into and then lock into place. You would get in/out from the board by simply undoing the rear lock and sliding your boot out of the T-track rearward. Would be nice and simple and afford a lot of power application to the board and edge control, I think. The T-track can be adjustible to whatever angle like on a soft-boot disc, so that it could fit standard holes. Like i said...I am alwys tinkering...ha ha.

[Buell]

Dynafit toepieces on the splitboard are the best!

Will at Spark offers adapter plates so you do not even need to drill your splitboard to mount the toepieces.

[Alaskan Rover]

On the solid board boot channel/board T-track idea, one drawback I think may be that because the essential platform is lower than with the normal hardboot plate binding, there would be less of a torque arm and thus less power for intricate edge control. The edge control would still be there of course, but perhaps the higher the torque arm, the easier to control the edge..maybe. An advantage, however, is that that inertial moment and all that mumbo can be applied to the board THROUGH-OUT the length of the boot, instead of just transferred through the toe and heel pieces...and maybe, if a very tight fit between boot bottom channel and T-track...there would be less energy loss due to looseness. The boot channel would have to a stainless steel insert...otherwise too much loss due to plastic wear. I think maybe the simplicity and length of linear kinetic transfer surface (the whole length of the boot channel) would compensate for any slight loss of torque arm. I'll have to get some old ski boots and a used-up board and do some testing and tinkering.

Great picture of that splitboard, Buell. Never thought of that...having the toe pieces permanently mounted right behind regular plate/binding. Would just have to take the plates off and huck them into the pack when you split the board! Nice idea.