carving = popular

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Pretty sure the 180 was only offered in one flex.

Perhaps when it first came out (re-issued), Mike offered me one at SES 06 I believe it was that was very stiff in comparison. I don't know what they have done since then. Great board though, I rode it most of the week. Had a blast.

[Bordy]

Pretty sure the 180 was only offered in one flex.

I had several in different flexes. We might still have them at hardbooter.

On a side note every year the disscusion about gear comes up, their is allways the poster who says....Dude its not about the gear its about how much fun you are haveing etc........

To you I say.....Dude if you don't need new gear to ride and have fun, great!

Some of us do, if you can't imagine riders at the top of their game that out ride all but the new hotness gear then your just not trying to understand the current level of the sport.

Last year my income for the year was $3800.00 that's right, three thousand eight hundred dollars.

I still seem to find a way to ride the gear I need to have fun.

Just like Photodad gives mad props to all the cheap windsurfing gear he got but in his avtar he's not even planing, the cheap gear is all he needs to have a blast and thats sweet his stoke level is high.

Just like I would guess if you are happy riding older, or less expenseive gear and haveing fun thats all you need, sweet.

But please don't for a single second convince your self thats all EVERYONE needs.... Lots of us need more...

[chewy]

at the start of this thread someone kicked down a post claiming bad English

a classic bash the poster not the content

same tude as the internet all round

bah...

[tex1230]

at the start of this thread someone kicked down a post claiming bad English

a classic bash the poster not the content

same tude as the internet all round

bah...

That was me...and it's because the OP has a history of bringing this same tired argument up month after month, and it has been addressed every time the same way it was answered later here.

He opened the door to flames anyway. I could start bashing you for lack of reading comprehension, but my therapist says I should try to be a nicer person.

[Bordy]

at the start of this thread someone kicked down a post claiming bad English

a classic bash the poster not the content

same tude as the internet all round

bah...

Sure if you just started coming here, but like Tex said same thing every couple of mounths from photodad. he just fishing for flames, we like to keep him happy.

You like the part where I answer a question other posters ask then continue writing what ever I wanted?

or did you read that as tude also?

a classic come in after the fact and make a no point comment to entertain your self.

What and how did you contribute to the thread again? oh yea you kept it going for fun.

classic home alone and wanted to be included.....

Are you sure your not the guy with the Tude, seems to me you pretty good at reading stuff how ever you want.

internet forum go figure...

[chewy]

precisely, there is little i like more than a good rant, and little that irks me more than a dismissive reply to the post: some elitists view of ones superior grasp of the English language

All of my hobbies forums seem to suffer the same issues

CBC had show about this last week, modern ego boost go go go

[photodad2001]

Hey guys, thanks for helping me put things in perspective. I'm sure it's because of the grass. :)

[kipstar]

I think windsurfing is probably in a similar zone to carving in some respects; in fact one of my good friends is the owner of the world's largest windsurfing brand (Starboard) and several mates work at the world's largest windsurfing factory where 70+% of the world's boards are made (Cobra).

To anyone who thinks it is dead or dying because of kiting alone.....the industry data just doesn't support that. Windsurf was terminal 10 years ago...since then it has grown, never back to the peak, but it is growing now (facts, not biased personal opinion, using the overall boards built/sold annually) and provides a totally different buzz than kiting, snowboarding or sailing.

Kiting has been growing and there are some very cool trends out there; people are racing kites upwind and downwind at a speed matching formula windsurfers in low breezes that are almost as low as specialist light wind windsurfing kit. The safety/power/quality of equipment has gone through the roof for kiting compared to the early gear. But for sure, there are still reasons for some people (me included, speaking as a competitive sailor) that we prefer windsurfing over kiting. I'ts location dependent as well; much of Thailand is great for kiting, some locations....not so much. And there are only a few places in the world where kite racing has started up, over here is not one of them.

I've found almost all kiters/windsurfers/carvers to cool, not too much attitude, although I'm not sure that's why the sports either grow (or not), probably helps get new people in. Kiting has grown from nothing in tapping into the skate/wake/wind/surf markets but unless it gets a lot more simple, none of the kiting industry would be naive enough to think it will grow to the size of body boards/surfing - too much gear and it requires some skill to get going whereas any clown can get a body board then go surf (and many do). You need water, you need wind, etc etc - same as snowboarding, pretty hard sport to do in Singapore!

Carving is a bit the same. To suggest the growth is different down to cost and sharing between people riding carving boards seems kind of simplistic. You can pick up the equivalent of 10 years old windsurf gear for same sorts of prices as old nitro scorpions and the like.... fine for some stuff but simply not as good as the new gear.

let's face it, in the world where image matters more than substance, and people want something easy, neither windsurfing nor carving up the hill delivers too much on the image and easy front.

Bordy

'Windsurfing was replaced by kiteboarding, enjoy the old guy sport.....go kiting!!!!! , Sure it cost money but it has a much lower end, I can plane in 8 knots and jump in 10. The high end can be better in windsurfing, kiting gets scary in over 40k, but it can be done I have a 4m Ozone instinct light that I am willing to launch if its hairball. Plus the air is unmatched."

Up to you to slag off windsurfing all you want (after all, you did it in 1982, so obviously that makes you are expert to comment on it ;_) but I wouldn't agree that kiting has a lower end than windsurfing formula gear. THe apollo boards with a 75cm fin you can plane consistently in a tropical 6-7 knots, when guys with the biggest kites are still struggling to get them flying. When i was racing, our race minimum is min 6 knots, avg 8 knots, and we are racing windward leewards. Plus there is displacement windsurfing as well - but I don't think that counts exactly - at least you can still race though.

Don't dispute the airtime though - kiting is craaaaaaaaaaaazy airtime. I'd say kiting is cheaper actually than windsurfing BTW, 3 kites, 3 boards....windsurfing for the same range is probably 2 boards, 3 sails, 3 masts, 2 booms, etc etc etc - adds up.

try star-board.com has a pretty decent site for windsurf.

[MEC]

Ok, then carvedog, purpletiara, MEC, Derf, photodad, etc..... will one of you get off your butts and buy my Madd 180 already??? It's minty.

I'd love to buy the Madd 180 (for my bf as it's way too long for me!) but I just bought Bob's Factory Prime for a whopping $50. :D That and a pair of last year's Malamutes (for the bf for non alpine days) have maxed out my new gear budget for the season. Hope somebody grabs it from you soon.

[Bordy]

Up to you to slag off windsurfing all you want (after all, you did it in 1982, so obviously that makes you are expert to comment on it ;_) but I wouldn't agree that kiting has a lower end than windsurfing formula gear. THe apollo boards with a 75cm fin you can plane consistently in a tropical 6-7 knots, when guys with the biggest kites are still struggling to get them flying

Kipstar,

I started windsurfing in 82, I still have a rig I was windsurfing every summer up until 05, and I kite and ride with the Buzinas Brothers Jake and Micah. Micah's sort of fast. one of my other kiting partners in Jason Morton, he has been the training partner for some of the fastest windsurfers ever, as well as roomates with Ellot laboe and lou wammian some of the pioneers of kiting. I not sayong a am a expert in the field of windsurfing, but I will toot my own horn in kiting, which I am a ozone factory rider in... On snow I can ride in a breeze as low as 3 knots, but on water even with the biggest gear 6-7 knots if tough our kite board just don't float like formula gear. But we both know that the wind is cleaner up high!!!

Some of my friend in the Bay area here in the US have been pioneering the kite race seen in the US its quite a thrill to race on water but I like to race on snow, Heres a quick video from Nationals this year.

Also heres some action we filmed last winter jumping.

In my world the Kite is king. the windsurfing rig just sits and may soon be a rail for water jibin!

wooo hoooo kite power!

[queequeg]

I'd love to buy the Madd 180 (for my bf as it's way too long for me!) but I just bought Bob's Factory Prime for a whopping $50. :D That and a pair of last year's Malamutes (for the bf for non alpine days) have maxed out my new gear budget for the season. Hope somebody grabs it from you soon.

Actually - I have a Ride Kildy 159 you are welcome to have for free - Its a retention plate board and needs some bindings but for a board of its vintage it kicks plenty of ass. It could use a grind and such too. Retention plates make me a bit nervous, but with you being as light as you are I wouldn't be too nervous about it, as long as whomever drills it does a good job. It is a very fun, lively board, I've had plenty of good times on it and wouldn't mind seeing it go to a good home. Quite a bit stiffer than that FP for sure, but you should be able to handle it. I could just bring it to you next time I am in VT.

[MEC]

Actually - I have a Ride Kildy 159 you are welcome to have for free - Its a retention plate board and needs some bindings but for a board of its vintage it kicks plenty of ass. It could use a grind and such too. Retention plates make me a bit nervous, but with you being as light as you are I wouldn't be too nervous about it, as long as whomever drills it does a good job. It is a very fun, lively board, I've had plenty of good times on it and wouldn't mind seeing it go to a good home. Quite a bit stiffer than that FP for sure, but you should be able to handle it. I could just bring it to you next time I am in VT.

Jose is that you? (I recognize the pants!) I appreciate the offer and would never turn down a gift I know nothing of retention plates... What does that mean and what do I need to know about them? Stiffer than the FP is fine, I just received it today, and it's not as stiff as that Option prototype that I had ridden a couple of seasons ago, so I shouldn't mind it. We have an excellent board tech here - Dave Manning. I would trust him to do anything it needs.

[queequeg]

Jose is that you? (I recognize the pants!) I appreciate the offer and would never turn down a gift I know nothing of retention plates... What does that mean and what do I need to know about them? Stiffer than the FP is fine, I just received it today, and it's not as stiff as that Option prototype that I had ridden a couple of seasons ago, so I shouldn't mind it. We have an excellent board tech here - Dave Manning. I would trust him to do anything it needs.

Yep, that's me. Those are my pants :-). Retention plates : pre-insert patterns. In ye olde-tyme snowboarding you had a big metal plate instead of pre-threaded inserts. You drove screws through the plate to hold down your bindings. This is definitely an older board, but it was way ahead of its time when it was produced. It's a short, stiff lively and turny board. It is also nice and narrow, which should be good for your little feet. It is in dire need of a tuning, base needs to be flattened, etc but nothing horrible ... I rode this in college when .... I was in college. Somewhat low on camber but it isn't flat, and it's plenty stiff anyhow. I'm not sure that this board had a ton of camber to begin with. It was a gift to me too.

[MEC]

Sounds great. Bring it on up the next time you are up here with the NYSG. You have my email, so let me know when you'll be around.

Thanks a bunch!

(And now back to our regularly scheduled programming... "Windsurfing vs. Kiteboarding")

[BlueB]

(And now back to our regularly scheduled programming... "Windsurfing vs. Kiteboarding")

I thought it was "Windsurfing vs. Carving"? :D

Ooooups, another tread drift, BOL style...

[Bullwings]

Kiteboarding vs. Windsurfing

Hardboots vs. Softboots

Road bike vs. Mt. Bike

Longboard vs. Streetboard

Traditional bow/arrow vs. compound bows

All of these "mines better arguements" sound a lot like "mines bigger..."

Anyway, this reads a lot like the general, "I'm bored and there's no snow but i'm still at BOL anyway" type of threads. Very entertaining

Oh yeah, and uhhh, i'm not contributing anything useful at this point, but neither is anyone else. hhuuuhuuh

This had a good start, but it doesn't seem like it's gonna turn into the 5+ page summer flame war thread unfortunately. ah well, i'll just sit around and wait

And thread drift, well, it's not a summer thread w/o it.

[photodad2001]

All of these "mines better arguements" sound a lot like "mines bigger...".

Are we seeing who has the biggest stick?

Try 372cm, a smidgin over 12 foot. Maybe I should have specified longboard windsurfing as the nich sport. Alpine is snowboarding anyway, not fair to group all windsurfers together and not all snowboarders. Does that help?

PS, why can't I get my images to show up? Jpg, Baseline Standard, under 97 kb, not too tall, not too wide, all I can see is a white box with a red X in it.

[queequeg]

Sounds great. Bring it on up the next time you are up here with the NYSG. You have my email, so let me know when you'll be around.

Thanks a bunch!

(And now back to our regularly scheduled programming... "Windsurfing vs. Kiteboarding")

Will do - hope you like it. I've had plenty of good times on it.

[kipstar]

Bordy

The two reasons why I would take up kiting (as I'm not that into airtime)

- the new trend of actually racing them

- snow kiting

Impressive....3 knots is all you need on snow - do you use a ram kite or bow kite - what is the trend there? Given the variability in the mountains of wind, thinking of all the days where it is 5-10 knots, then starts gusting 15-25 later in the day; what is the key that the kiters use to deal with that? Do you use it mostly on the flat or to go up, then ride back down, or a mix of all of that?

I know you are a pro level kiter (as far as there is such a thing in what is, IMHO, an expression session sport rather than a race around a course type sport as per alpine snowboarding racing). And Micah is a f&*king legend :-)

That picture of all the kites in one run...that is INSANE! Mix of boards and skis...which one works better on the snow?

BTW 1982...that was near the beginning of modern windsurfing...so you've done the tour of duty on the boards.

Photodad - the longest long board out this way there are two, the gemini (a two person board that is a frigging hoot to ride, I've taken my GF out a few times on it, fully lit up and planing with her on the front using a 3m), and the serenity which is about 4.5m long and rides like the wind in as little as 1-2 knots (it looks like a canoe with a sail on it).

So.....3.8m ain't that impressive; _)

[photodad2001]

Photodad - the longest long board out this way there are two, the gemini (a two person board that is a frigging hoot to ride, I've taken my GF out a few times on it, fully lit up and planing with her on the front using a 3m), and the serenity which is about 4.5m long and rides like the wind in as little as 1-2 knots (it looks like a canoe with a sail on it).

So.....3.8m ain't that impressive; _)

Now the Gemini is a tandem so to be fair you should only allow the length per person and is the serenity considered a board? I've seen pics and it looks more like stretched out sea kayak. Isn't it hollow with ribs etc.? Not sure, just guessing by looking at the hull. I'd say that makes it more boat than board. Even quotes about the serenity on the starboard site say, "It's almost like a different sport altogether..." and "Just watching the bow penetrating the water...". Boards have noses. Now the phantom boards are pretty long. The 380 is a bit longer than what I'm on. Kona makes some long boards too. They have a tandem as well, not as large as the Gemini, but still a giant.

[Fastskiguy]

Also heres some action we filmed last winter jumping.

Soooo....do people get killed doing this left and right or what? When you said "jumping" I was thinking....they shoot off something, fly 100 feet or whatever, then land. I didn't think you were talking about 100 feet UP! This brings new meaning to the phrase "Big Air"!

[photodad2001]

This brings new meaning to the phrase "Big Air"!

Here's one you'll like. I think the phrase "Big Air" doesn't even sum it up. I think this is flying. Kite Wing on skis, although you can use about anything with it, and there's no pesky lines to get caught on trees, powerlines, or other kiters.

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[Bordy]

Bordy

The two reasons why I would take up kiting (as I'm not that into airtime)

- the new trend of actually racing them

- snow kiting

Impressive....3 knots is all you need on snow - do you use a ram kite or bow kite - what is the trend there? Given the variability in the mountains of wind, thinking of all the days where it is 5-10 knots, then starts gusting 15-25 later in the day; what is the key that the kiters use to deal with that? Do you use it mostly on the flat or to go up, then ride back down, or a mix of all of that?

I know you are a pro level kiter (as far as there is such a thing in what is, IMHO, an expression session sport rather than a race around a course type sport as per alpine snowboarding racing). And Micah is a f&*king legend :-)

That picture of all the kites in one run...that is INSANE! Mix of boards and skis...which one works better on the snow?

BTW 1982...that was near the beginning of modern windsurfing...so you've done the tour of duty on the boards.

Photodad - the longest long board out this way there are two, the gemini (a two person board that is a frigging hoot to ride, I've taken my GF out a few times on it, fully lit up and planing with her on the front using a 3m), and the serenity which is about 4.5m long and rides like the wind in as little as 1-2 knots (it looks like a canoe with a sail on it).

So.....3.8m ain't that impressive; _)

Kipstar,

I ride ram air or pump up kites, each has its own plus and minuses, the pump ups are better for unhooked(like wakeboarding tricks) freestyle and I use them in lighter air because they have a rigid air frame, I use the ram air or foil kites most of the time since they are easy to set up and if I cover long distances,(some days we go over a hundred miles) I can bring a different sizes on my back and switch kites if climbing into a different wind speed.

I am lucky since my sponsor makes both so I get to choose. On the water pump ups are my only choice since the foil kites don't float so on crash and your day is over with foils.

The range of the kite is awsome I can ride the same kite from 10 to 30 knots if I need to but just like sails its more fun to have the correct size kite.

Funny as a pro kiter I have made more money and gotten more gear and sponsors( Currently... Ozone, DC, Windzup, Kite Utah, Dakine) in just a few years as a athlete, I started kiting in 06. Then in a life time as a Pro snowboarder which I started competing in 89.

We do have course racing and have for years, this year at nationals I won the long race (winduro) and placed 3rd in the short race(kiter cross) I won all my heats by a bunch in the kiter cross only to get cock blocked at the start and have to go around a bunch of unlaunched kiters that were using team tactics to block me. I had to make two extra up wind reaches and started the down wind middle leg in last out of the ten riders in the finals, I passed all but two rider to finish third, if I had a nother hundred yards I could have passed everyone...Michah's brother Jake won and french cat who finished second at worlds finished second.

I also just won the UT summer games water course racing this june...

Winduro is everyone at once skiis or snowboards but there are classes for each,Skiers always are faster since they can skate and have two edges to us to edge against the kite, I ski once in a while but like the board better.

Kiter cross has ski class and board class.

Heres some vid of the skiercross. you can see how skating gives skiers such a big advantage over boarders

Photodad,

What a cute little air the guy on the KITEwing does. Is that you? I am quessing you didn't even watch the kite vid since "big air doesn't sum it up"

Here's some more really big airs by myself and my friends

just like the last vid I am in the orange one piece. Chating up the camera as always:rolleyes:

[Bordy]

Soooo....do people get killed doing this left and right or what? When you said "jumping" I was thinking....they shoot off something, fly 100 feet or whatever, then land. I didn't think you were talking about 100 feet UP! This brings new meaning to the phrase "Big Air"!

We have lost some friends kiting but most deaths happen on water and drowning is the cause. There are only about 30 people world wide that use the kite to fly like we do so the injury rate is low. I blew up my knee learning when I made a mistake crashed my kite and fell 50+ feet to the ground. ACL snapped lick a twig cuz I tried to land on my feet then roll out.

[Fastskiguy]

We have lost some friends kiting but most deaths happen on water and drowning is the cause. There are only about 30 people world wide that use the kite to fly like we do so the injury rate is low. I blew up my knee learning when I made a mistake crashed my kite and fell 50+ feet to the ground. ACL snapped lick a twig cuz I tried to land on my feet then roll out.

Sure am sorry to hear you knew people who have died kiting, I didn't realize that kind of thing happened. It looks so graceful and safe! But that big air, man, that is really amazing.