FTA2R Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 So i just tried Bikram Yoga for the first time a few hours ago- a female co-worker (and health nut) has been asking me to come with her for a while. from their website: "Classes are 90 minutes long and are conducted in a room heated to about 105 to 110 degrees" Are there any regular practioners of this type of yoga here? If so, how has it impacted your riding? my thoughts: 1. great workout which I personally found tough - far more tiring than any of my recumbent bike workouts (which I've worn full sweats for several times)- heartbeat was elevated a lot. The heat just drains the absolute crap out of you, at times almost feels suffocating. supposedly the body gets somewhat used to this - reminds me of doing martial arts in a garage with no A/C several summers ago. I simply could not do several of the poses b/c (probably like a lot of guys), lower body flexibility is not something I have a lot of. You WILL be steadily dripping sweat from every gland possible. 2. i purposely didn't go too hard (and they recommended not to) b/c it's the first time - though I did have some concerns about losing too much water, i apparently didn't lose more than a pound (though my face was completely red!) 3. lots of hot girls wearing almost nothing! :)....and some good bending poses! 4. I'm still not completely sold on the "detoxyifying" effect thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 My girlfriend is a nut about the stuff. She's gone on 2 stints of going 90+ days everyday at a time (over 530 classes). She's practiced it for about 2.5 years now and is pretty as flexible as a noodle. And after all that, she's quitting... I've gone to it, and find it no more beneficial than regular yoga, except for all of the hot sweaty girls everywhere wearing the bare minimum. that and every now and then you'll get the stupid one (or slutty one) that wears white... Anyway, as far as the heat goes. All it does is warm you up and make it easier to get into postures and make you a bit more flexible than you really are. That's it. It doesn't add anything to giving you a good work out. All that sweating isn't calories burned... It's you losing crap loads of water because it's F***ing hot and your body is trying to cool down - unsuccessfully of course since humidity in the room is at 90+% and it's around 110F. Oh and one other thing, for us guys, it's bad for your testies. There's a reason you have this sack that hangs AWAY from the rest of your body - it likes to be at temperatures COOLER than 98.7F (37C). Hot yoga, equal bad for your balls and your testosterone production. As for my girlfriend quitting, she's seen the light. Those temperatures are just unnatural, and you're better off doing some of the other forms of yoga out there. Getting dizzy, fealing nauseated, getting angry (heat can do that to you, especially guys - it has to me on one occasion and i've seen it happen to other guys), etc etc, is not worth it. All the weight lost is just water weight becuase you're de-hydrated and sweating a crap load. It's like sitting in a sauna and losing 3 pounds when you get out. Did you burn any calories or fat? NO, you just lost all the water in you and got dehydrated. That weight comes back on in like 2-3 days. Yoga in general is good for your balance and overall being flexible, which is nice for snowboarding, but Bikram (hot) yoga versus some other yoga won't make you better. Avoid the heat, your balls and your sig other will thank you... And take it from my girlfriend, there's gosip at her studio going around about the owner/practitioner/part-time instructor (who is male) that has certain male problems - one of the other male instructors apparently also has the same problems. As for me, i go every now and then (see 1-2 times a month), but it's just to spend time with my girl, that's it. The stretches and postures are definitely beneficial, but you don't need the heat. If you want to do yoga, don't do Bikram. Rant done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Bullwings, After reading several articles / forums and just thinking about it for a bit, I think you have many good points. "Oh and one other thing, for us guys, it's bad for your testies. There's a reason you have this sack that hangs AWAY from the rest of your body" i never even thought of that! Yeah, I'm thinking a lot of these women are equating sweating with losing weight - which it is- but just water weight, which, as you noted, will be gained back soon. Now, the heart rate is definitely elevated and i'm sure muscular endurance increased a bit and flexibility increased and perhaps even core strength increased, but I personally can contract my muscles harder at "Normal" temps....and I think a lot of the positive feeling is probably assocated with sweating so much and the relaxing feelings that occur after (but any good workout should do that).... oh, and the toxins escaping? i'm not 100% bought on that..... one person described it as aerobics in a heat box - it obviously diverges from the practice of traditional yoga and subscribes to "no pain, no gain" - though it seems we're agreeing the law of diminishing returns is clearly in effect here. My main concern is dehydration - i felt like i was the only one regularly drinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I'm with Bullwings - I think Bikram is a stupid hoax. I had an Indian friend who had studied with Iyengar (i.e., the yogi himself, not in an Iyengar school), and he got pretty worked up over Bikram -- he thought it was horse****. I did about a year and a half of Iyengar some years ago, and I've done about 4 Bikram sessions. Like other folks, I felt pretty unwell for some of those sessions. I'm generally pretty comfortable in the heat -- I've cycle toured in Thailand, Malaysia, and Vietnam in high temps and humidity -- and I've never been as uncomfortable as I was in those Bikram sessions. Plus, there's the "crap this is stupid factor" of being in a room at 110 degrees and 90% humidity, and walking out into 30 degrees and rain. Not what you want to do in Portland's cold/flu season. I think yoga is great training for athletes in pretty much any sport, but not Bikram. I would recommend the Iyengar school as more athletic and less meditative than some of the other approaches (i.e., Hatha). Heating the room to help you stretch more is perfectly reasonable -- same reason we wear sweats when warming up and stretching. But Bikram temperatures are stupid and pointless -- just a marketing thing to convince New Age dip****s that they're getting a rigorous workout when they're not. Kind of the modern day equivalent of this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Dan, you funny guy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 The other thing is that Bikram himself is a greedy money grubbing whore. He charges a crap load in royalties to use his name so you can call your studio a "Bikram" yoga studio, and to get to that status, apparently the owner/main instructor has to pay a crap load in class fees (more so than other yogas) to get "certified" as a Bikram instructor - not very yogi like at all... As Dan said, a bunch of marketting BS aimed at making money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 I dunno about Bikram, but I'm a fan of hot yoga. I believe it's a notch down from Bikram. I do the C2 class at Core Power Yoga a few times a week. Wish I knew more about the different types...but whatever the c2 class I'm doing is exactly what I need. http://www.corepoweryoga.com/newtocorepoweryoga/classdescriptions.aspx CorePower Yoga 2 (C2) - intermediate, open (all levels) CorePower Yoga class, 93 - 98 degrees with humidity, 60 or 75 minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 I second the recommendation for something like Iyengar. I did Anusara yoga for a few years. It's more physical than mental, which is what I was looking for as a triathlete/mountain biker/snowboarder/marathoner. I don't know a lot about the different yoga styles, but I think John Friend develeped Anusara based on Iyengar yoga and exercise physiology principles. It is sort of glorified stretching, except it ensures that you are stretching properly with good spinal alignment and balance. It also gave me a much better realization of my posture throughout the day. I have scoliosis and posture problems, so this was a good thing for me. And even though it is mainly physical, I did feel some mental and relaxation benefits from it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 My experience with hot yoga is that my wife has been going off and on for a few years now. At first it was with a Bikram studio. Now it is with some folks who built their own studio and invite a few to join in to help pay the power bill. She goes religiously twice a week. I don't like heat, so I am not planning on going anytime soon. If you know someone who is thinking of doing this ( as in your spouse or lady ) I would encourage them to do so. :eplus2: That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 And the whole thing about the testes temperature is just.....well confusing. The closer you get to the equator and prolonged temperatures in the 100 degree plus zone, the higher the population seems to be. Saunas?? Hot tubs?? I have spent hours in hot tubs at 104 to 107. Days and days actually would be more accurate than hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 http://www.cababstractsplus.org/abstracts/Abstract.aspx?AcNo=19880109520 Title: Effects of local heating of the testes on the concentration of testosterone in jugular and testicular venous blood of rats and on testosterone production in vitro. Personal Authors: Galil, K. A. A., Setchell, B. P. Author Affiliation: ARC Inst. Animal Physiology, Cambridge CB2 4AT, UK. Editors: No editors Document Title: International Journal of Andrology Abstract: Heating both testes of rats to 39°-41°C for 30 min (by the direct application of heat) was apparently without effect 21 days later, but heating to 41.5°-43° for 30 min resulted in a significant drop in testis weight, accompanied by significant rises in the serum LH and FSH concentrations. There were no changes in serum testosterone concentration in the peripheral circulation, although there was an increase in the concentration in testis venous blood. The ability of the heated testis to secrete testosterone in vivo in response to max. stimulation by HCG was reduced, as judged by the testosterone concentration in peripheral blood, while there was a supranormal increase in testosterone concentration in the testis venous blood. Maximally stimulated testosterone production in vitro by the heated testis was supranormal, whereas the basal production of testosterone per testis was not different from control values. Therefore, it appears that the testosterone produced by Leydig cells from heated testes may not be secreted as effectively as in normal testes. (The effects are very similar in human models...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 So at 107 you can see damage. So sit by the door of the class and you will be below that, add in the fact that you sweat and you body is much cooler than this and I doubt you will see any real damage. Carvedog, keep on hot tubbn'. Personally I don't like Bikram because the movements are pretty much pre planned. We occasionally take our athletes to a Baptiste style yoga class from time to time, http://www.baronbaptiste.com/. You guys have mentioned many of the reasons why we take our athletes there. Because it is hot and they will be uncomfortable. It puts them out of their comfort zone and forces them to make a choice between giving up or pushing through when it gets difficult. A lot of our coaching methods involve putting our athlete in controled situations where they encounter fear, or are put out of their comfort zones. This usually helps to break down mental walls put up by athletes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 So at 107 you can see damage. So sit by the door of the class and you will be below that, add in the fact that you sweat and you body is much cooler than this and I doubt you will see any real damage. In the rat models, heat was only applied to the testes (localized heat). Actual core body temp does not go up to that temp. Also, there's a biological reason your scrotum hangs away from your body. Men who wear boxers tend to have higher sperm counts than men who wear briefs. Do you know why this is? Temperature. Your balls aren't at 98.7F like the rest of your body, they're slightly cooler. They prefer to hang and swing around a bit. When it's too cold, the skin gets tight and they get pulled closer to your body to warm up a bit. Just because your core body temp is cooler, doesn't mean your extremeties are - e.g. see frost bite for the flip side, core body temp is probably much warmer. Also, sweating is ineffective in a room at 90-95% humidity with temperatures well above body temp. Your sweat works to cool you down by evaporating and it evaporates by drawing the heat off of your body. Well, it's tough to evaporate when the air is saturated with moisture and if it does evaporate, it's drawing more heat from the surounding air than it is from your body. Also, chances are that you're not standing around naked... Those two extra layers of clothing act as more insulation to keep the heat in. As for hot tubs, it's worse with heat. Ancient male Greeks and/or Romans used to sit in 110+F hot tubs for 45 minutes at a time as a form of temporary contraception. There's nothing wrong with doing it every once and a while, but regularly isn't healthy - just like drinking too much alcohol. But hey you don't have to believe me, they're not my balls, you can do with them what you like hehe ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 This tread is worthless without pics... or a vid ;) <embed src="http://www.ebaumsworld.com/mediaplayer.swf" allowScriptAccess="always" flashvars="scanscoutcode=763&pageurl=http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/271690/&file=http://media.ebaumsworld.com/videos/2008/03/271690.flv&mediaid=271690&title=Hot girls and yoga&tags=hot,girls,yoga,exersize,sexy,college,girls,funny,hot&description=Probably the best thing to ever happen, it's a little slice of heaven&displayheight=325&backcolor=0x0d0d0d&lightoclor=0x336699&frontcolor=0xccccccℑ=http://media.ebaumsworld.com/thumbs/2008/03/271690.jpg" wmode="transparent" loop="false" menu="false" quality="high" bgcolor="#ffffff" width="425" height="345" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Also, chances are that you're not standing around naked... Those two extra layers of clothing act as more insulation to keep the heat in. QUOTE] Actually when the temp is above body heat those layers act to keep heat out. That is why in the middle east they wear clothing that covers their entire body. I would rather insulate myself at 98 degrees than expose myself to 107 degrees. And why are you in a yoga class wearing two layers of clothes in the first place? Like you said in the study. The testerone was reduced at temps OVER 107 when applied directly to the testies. This isn't really the case in a yoga class. I'm sure that sprem counts will go down, but you only need one good swimmer in the first place, and most of the time guys out there don't want that little guy to reach the goal excepct for a few times in their entire life. Sperm count and testerone levels are two independant things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted April 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 some interesting discussion and GREAT pics! haha my co worker said her sister inquired about becoming Bikram certified - 9K!!!!! (and I think a 4 - 9 week committment) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 some interesting discussion and GREAT pics! hahamy co worker said her sister inquired about becoming Bikram certified - 9K!!!!! (and I think a 4 - 9 week committment) Wow, that takes way too much money, and not nearly enough time! (Unless she's already an instructor of some other form of yoga?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Actually when the temp is above body heat those layers act to keep heat out. That is why in the middle east they wear clothing that covers their entire body. I would rather insulate myself at 98 degrees than expose myself to 107 degrees. And why are you in a yoga class wearing two layers of clothes in the first place? Like you said in the study. The testerone was reduced at temps OVER 107 when applied directly to the testies. This isn't really the case in a yoga class. Are you sure about that in the middle east with the clothing? you might want to ask the women about that... Also, it might have something to do with the sun, sand storms that rip your skin off, and overall cultural values... Go to Africa, areas around the Mediteranian, Australia, and parts of Asia where it's super hot and/or humid and they're not insulating themselves... Why do all those guys on TUF (the ultimate fighter) wear those black insulating suits when they step into the sauna when trying to cut weight instead of standing in there naked? I don't know about you, but I'm not going into a hot/bikram yoga room wearing my snowboarding gear as i try to insulate myself from the heat, i'll probably die... yes, insulation works both ways, you keep a layer of hot air around you in cool weather, a layer of cool air around you in hot weather, but it doesn't help in this environment. As for the two layers... It's called underwear and a pair of shorts on top of it = two layers. I'm not going in there wearing speedos. As for the heat being applied directly to the testes... well, that's exactly how heat transfer works. If your entire surroundings (i.e. the air) are OVER 107F, which in a hot/Bikram yoga class it is usually 105-115, then the heat is being directly applied to your entire body. The specific heat of the substance transfering the heat is different, as in water vs. air. It takes a lot more energy to heat up 1g by 1degree C than it does 1g of air. Thus, the 1g of water has more heat (a form of energy) to transfer than 1 gram of air. However, the fact is that, whether you're jumping into 107F water tub or a 95% humidity 107F room, the heat is still being directly transfered to your entire body, but the air loses it's energy quicker than water would. That air molecule then needs to have heat transfered to it from another air molecule before it can transfer more heat to you. heat only flows in one direction from a hotter object to a cooler one. There's three ways that heat is transfered, conduction, convection, and radiation. Thus, in a 107+F room, there is only one way for your body to transfer heat to it's surroundings - radiation. Conduction and convection are nulified, and so sweating is useless. As for swimmers and testosterone, having lots of testosterone doesn't mean you'll have good swimmers, but not having enough testosterone definitely does not bode well not just for sperm count, but for other things like gynecomastia (man boobs or manoobs) - see Bob from Fight Club... Relationship between sperm count, serum gonadotropins and testosterone levels in normo-, oligo- and azoospermia. <!--AuthorList-->Lenau H, Gorewoda I, Niermann H. In 92 men with normozoospermia (greater than 40 X 10(6)/ml), 105 with slight oligozoospermia (greater than 10 X 10(6)/ml), 100 with severe oligozoospermia (less than 10 X 10(6)/ml) and 56 with azoospermia, serum testosterone, LH and FSH were measured radioimmunologically. With an increasing degree of reduction of spermatozoa, a decreasing testosterone level and increasing LH and FSH levels could be demonstrated. In normozoospermia, between 40 and 140 X 10(6)/ml, a direct correlation was found between FSH and sperm count, and, in the group between 40 and 100 X 10(6)/ml, a direct correlation between T and sperm count. A disturbed LH:T balance is often observed which beside decreased serum T levels demonstrates a testicular deficiency in androgen production. PMID: 6772497 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] As I said, not my balls ;) P.S. Thanks for the pictures and video BlueB :biggthump THAT is why you go to yoga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 You guys have mentioned many of the reasons why we take our athletes there. Because it is hot and they will be uncomfortable. It puts them out of their comfort zone and forces them to make a choice between giving up or pushing through when it gets difficult. A lot of our coaching methods involve putting our athlete in controled situations where they encounter fear, or are put out of their comfort zones. This usually helps to break down mental walls put up by athletes. Very interesting. I just read this article that touches on what you're talking about http://www.baseballnews.com/features/navysealtraining.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 yeah, i'm pretty sure the desert tribes in africa do cover themselves fully - realize that's also dry heat (as far as i know).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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