Transistor Rhythm Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 BTW Damian Sanders dropped the hardboots as well.......... .....and went back: http://www.angrysnowboarder.com/2008/10/continuation-of-damian-sanders-sage.html But not without drastic modification to the boots though. You could probably make a hardboot that would be great for BX but stock hardboots are made for racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 leverage for what? you have not mentioned what you are trying to lever. also, after considering your analogy to highbacks, I think it is false anyway. with highbacks, the force of you trying to pivot on your heels is what is transferred to them. that puts the fulcrum at heel level, not edge level, meaning the riser does not help at all. On the other hand, a longer highback would help, but then its easier to get caught on a lift while hopping on, which brings up a new problem. As I said earlier, risers will raise your center of gravity, making it easier to fall over and therefore get low, but there is no "leverage: increas When you use a riser the pivot point is still at the edge of the board. The point on which you are using to tilt the board on edge is lifted further away from the edge. Making the lever longer......how hard it is to see this? You keep wanting a reason for this extra leverage, for straight discussion here I don't feel I need to explain the REASON to prove that it does CAUSE you to have extra leverage, this goes against basic scientific method. But I guess you know more than all the companies who designed these products, and more than half of the World Cup SBX athletes who use these product, AND the entire World Cup Alpine field who also us plates........Congreats to out smarting the ENTIRE snowboard industry, oh wait you also outsmarted the entire ski industry who also us riser plates to increase leverage and to help prevent booting out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 apparently being coach of the year means you are always right and dont have to even try to listen to what others say No, being coach of the year means that he has forgotten more about snowboarding than you will likely ever know. I realize that at your age, and being a college student (and apparently a bright one) you feel like you know a lot. A few days on a snowboard and a keen understanding of physics still does not put you in the same league. Trust me. You will not understand this until you A. put in 1000+ days on a snowboard B. get some advanced training on a board that will show you how much you really do not understand yet and C. ride with some people at the top level of our sport to see what you lack. A guy like Phil Fell has trained with the best coaches and athletes and gets more days on board in two or three seasons than you have in your entire life. My guess is that your arguments are coming down to semantics. You may be talking about different things while thinking you are talking about the same thing. The point is that you should be listening and trying to understand - asking the right questions instead of having the right answers. You listen to your professors at school, right? Do you try to prove them wrong, or do you ask questions to better understand what they are trying to tell you? Listen, I am not trying to put you down. I just hope that you will understand that you sound like an intelligent guy. Hopefully, you will be wise enough to listen and ask the right questions so that you will also have a better understanding of snowboarding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I spend waaay too much time trying to educate people that dont want to be educated, and dont listen to reason.Pot, meet kettle. Clearly you haven't spent any of that time considering that you might be wrong.You listen to your professors at school, right? Do you try to prove them wrong, or do you ask questions to better understand what they are trying to tell you?I've met his type before. They only ask questions in class to prove how smart they are.And Kex, believe it or not, there are plenty of guys here who are long past college and make their livings from physics. Lots of tech geeks here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave ESPI Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I ride 38 /28 on my one short BX race board and 44 / 32 on my other. Some courses you can do it in HB and plates, others..... forget it, the air is sick and landings are not forgiving of you are off by a C-hair with your angle of attack or get bumped mid-flight by another racer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 It doesn't matter to me what hard boots were intended for. What does matter is that I enjoy them more than I enjoyed soft boots, even though I spend most of my time in the terrain park, and before they started making terrain parks I was planning every run around where the best natural jumps were, in hard boots.I've never done BX, and I'm in no big hurry to, but it looks fun... if I ever do it, I will be in hard boots. How many season did you spend hitting jumps in terrain parks before you came to that conclusion? I dunno, but maybe you can answer me this: why is it that some people can't understand that some other people have ridden hard and soft extensively and found that hard boots work better for them, for carving AND for hitting jumps and bump inside and outside the terrain park? listen, you can do a ton of things in hard boots, I have and do. I used to ride powder on coilers, doneks, priors factory primes and sometimes a sims burner as well as ride park. softboots work better for that application. If you plan to be competitive in BX, pipe or anything that involves landing airs it's highly unlikely that you'd be better off in hardboots. I could run gates on my tele skis, would probably be faster if I learned to use alpine skis for that.... Even if you don't care about competition and want to be the best you can, hardboots can be a hinderance for a lot of things. Just the same as they are better for other things. Many people here ride boards designed for softboots with plates and then lament about how crappy softboot gear is based on that they could not turn a 26 cm wide board with plates or they broke it or they tried riding softboots once and hated it. The other argument is I have softies and hate them, the answer to that is you either don't know how to ride them or you have gear that is crap or just not set up right. I'm good enough on both types of gear to see what each work for...... Some people feel differently but you're in the minority, most who feel that way are not able to ride both types of gear well. There are a select bunch that plates work better for everything, I suspect most of them either have personal physical issues making them unique or they just have not put in the time. I prefer plates most days, I will go everywhere on them. I used to pull the alpine superiority bit too, it just does not hold water in most cases. Alpine boards are better for turning on hard pack, this is where I am most of the time like most of you. thus, I prefer alpine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coloradoking Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 BTW, I played with the F2 sflex under my catek fr2s, that was heavy as all hell but felt good. I'm not racing BX tho and air with that much weight is scary. my kessler w/ the hangls comes in at a burly 25ish pounds. i feel safer on something that rides like a tank on steroids and by the way kex, the idea is that you increase pressure you can generate with less board angle so that you stand in a more comfortable, stable and controlled position. this only works if you are a good enough rider that you actually can keep your body in line with the board at high speed in a fast, low turn. the idea of having increased "leverage" is actually to increase the pressure on the fulcrum (the edge), not actual leverage that affects a secondary point. ive been involved in this sport for most of my life, and trust me when i say not all of the terminology we use like "leverage" is used in its literal meaning. don't assume that you are automatically an expert in equipment just because you're a student. there are people here that have much more real world experience, and some that even have PhDs. please just learn, you'll have your turn to teach if you stay with this sport, but until you have some real world experience with this stuff i would advise that you just sit back and learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 my kessler w/ the hangls comes in at a burly 25ish pounds. i feel safer on something that rides like a tank on steroids. yeah, keeping it on the ground even then I'd like to shed as much weight as possible. I've ridden a board with hangls, really sucks when you tumble with them heavy as **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torquecarver Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 After some thinking about this imangine this:Screw a one inch high "L" bracket on top of your board near the edge. Now try to tilt the board on edge using this "L" bracket, it would require quite a bit of effort. Now screw this same "L" bracket on a riser plate, it would now be easier to put the board on edge because although you are using the same size bracket you have increased you "LEVERAGE". Does this jive with your science class? Old school example... Add Elfgen Multi-Twist plates, Burton PowerPlate aluminum cants and Flex bindings. Then spend the day practicing your leverage!! :D (or... how to make size 12 boots work on a 'relatively' narrow board and avoid boot out. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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