BryanZ Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 ill have to get someone to take some pictures or a video so you guys can give me insite on proper form. I've never had anybody teach me form at all, and I've never studied it. I've been watching some of the video's of carvers and I don't see much difference from what I think I'm doing other then the fact that they are pulling much higher g's on the turns. I definatly need some work on my heelside, after doing some reading it sounds like I am having the same problem many others are having. I have wayyy less control on heelside. On my toe side I can hit any terrain with a perfect carve (atleast in my opinion.) On my heelside, any rough terrain usually leads to me losing control. My heelside carving is usually very breif at high speeds. I always thought it was because on the toeside I have an extra set of suspension, my ankles. The best example I can give. Say I'm carving fast on my toe side, I hit a drop off at speed that forces me to get some air. I will stay on the same angle in the air that I was carving at, and land on the same angle continuing the carve. If this happens when I'm on my heelside, my board usually comes out from under me. I usually don't fall, but I am definatly not in control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Say I'm carving fast on my toe side, I hit a drop off at speed that forces me to get some air. I will stay on the same angle in the air that I was carving at, and land on the same angle continuing the carve. If this happens when I'm on my heelside, my board usually comes out from under me. I usually don't fall, but I am definatly not in control. Yeah, it happens to everybody, I think. The problem is that bending your knees with low boot angles increases your edge angle on your toeside but decreases it on your heelside. For example, next time you're standing with your board on (like in the lift line, or just do it in your living room), bend your knees and drop your butt lower to the ground while keeping your body upright. Your shins will push against the tongue of your boot and you'll end up going up on your tiptoes and the toeside edge will dig into the snow (or the carpet) and the heelside edge will lift up. So when you land a jump or hit a bump on your toeside edge and you absorb the impact by compressing your knees, it does the same thing - it pushes the toeside in even harder, making it easy to hold the carve as long as you push with your ankles. On the flip side, if you land a jump on your heelside and absorb the impact by compressing your knees, it decreases your heelside edge angle, which makes it want to skid out. And you are right; having the extra joint in the ankle for toeside carves makes it easier to absorb small scale chatter without your having to move all your long lever joints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotbeans Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I'm sure many of us are looking forward to hearing about your first weeks in hardboots. I'm gonna guess that you'll feel like your getting it in a couple of runs (on the greens), which will suck you even more into the sport. You'll have a blast, get thrown over the handlebars a few times, start to lay out harder carves... and, then look longingly at a steep blue or black. Or, maybe go on an ice day... Then it's BACK TO SCHOOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 BryanZ, Where are you in NJ? I teach at Bear Creek Mountain Resort in PA six days a week. You are welcome to try any of my equipment sometime if you like. Shoot me a PM if you are interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 On the flip side, if you land a jump on your heelside and absorb the impact by compressing your knees, it decreases your heelside edge angle, which makes it want to skid out. Ah so, basically, in order to counter act this, I would want my boot angled so that when I'm just standing on the board flat, my knees would be bent? Would something like this help with heelside control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar(angel Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 That was the set-up I had right before I went to a hardboot set-up. I still remember my first day in hardboots and bindings, it was completely different than the Klicker set-up I had on my Prowler. The hardboot set-up was much more direct and demanded more of my attention than the klicker set-up. I too had skateboarded, surfed, and wakeboarded before snowboarding (I learned at 38....) I was use to a more "surfy" style of riding and when I made the transition to hardboots I found myself skidding the tail a bit until I learned proper technique. Once I started getting the board up on edge and actually started "carving", my riding style changed and I've been hooked ever since. The klickers was a fun set-up, but definitely more loose and slower to respond than a full on hardboot set-up. My 2 cents for your board selection is to start out on a medium (168-172) size board and go from there. I've been hardbooting for the last 7 seasons, I'm 6'2" 195 and I ride everything from a 167 to a 178. Read all the tech articles here you can and previous threads on "beginners" (use the search function) and get out and ride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 BryanZ,Where are you in NJ? I teach at Bear Creek Mountain Resort in PA six days a week. You are welcome to try any of my equipment sometime if you like. Shoot me a PM if you are interested. oh wow man, thats quite an offer. That would mean a lot to me. You would have to tell me your favorite beer before hand though. I don't go to the poconos much, but you are only an hour and a half from me, I could easily make a day trip. I'll shoot you a PM one time when I have a day off and we could set something up. I'm located in haddonfield NJ, about 10 minutes outside philly. Are you pretty much teaching the whole day? would you have time for a few runs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I'm sure many of us are looking forward to hearing about your first weeks in hardboots. I'm gonna guess that you'll feel like your getting it in a couple of runs (on the greens), which will suck you even more into the sport. You'll have a blast, get thrown over the handlebars a few times, start to lay out harder carves... and, then look longingly at a steep blue or black. Or, maybe go on an ice day... Then it's BACK TO SCHOOL! oh you have no idea how much im looking foward to it, i don't know why I never looked into this before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyTKDsquirrel Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I've been following this thread closely...I'm in the same boat as you Bryan. I feel very much the same too!! Except I'm only 18. :p Oddly, I too wish I could've gotten into alpine boarding sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I've been following this thread closely...I'm in the same boat as you Bryan. I feel very much the same too!! Except I'm only 18. :p Oddly, I too wish I could've gotten into alpine boarding sooner. not a plaid hoodie and halfpipe kinda guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyTKDsquirrel Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Oh heck no. I've always stayed away from the park. I'm all about the speed. The kind that makes your pants and jacket flap; the leaves-your-board-clean-when-you-get-to-the-bottom, and freezes-the-water-droplets-on-your-goggles kind of speed. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 lol, alright well start carving and in a couple years (when you turn 21 of course) we'll race, loser pays the bar tab. I am a fan of expensive scotch, so make sure you bring your credit card Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 (Second one) I think this one is Jack's of Shred downhill edge carve in HBs. Holy krap where did you find that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Holy krap where did you find that? Das Amputator I believe. Hope that's ok. Thought it was a real nice example. In the digital photo montage sequence thread. Same with B2s. Being a photographer myself I have some mad respect for yours and Lowells' photos. I would only ever cross post to bomber and would never use in any other way without contacting you. I am so lazy with photography these days. I get so few days on hill that I ride solo usually, crank mad tunes and go as fast and hard as I can for a few runs and then back to work rush, rush. Sometimes I miss the days when I had no money at all and a pass. That was my whole asset - a ski pass. Besides cameras, boards and a kayak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Are you pretty much teaching the whole day? would you have time for a few runs? When you know you are coming, shoot me that PM. We'll go from there. Setting the board(s) up will be the most important thing. My boots will be too big for you, so you will have to wear the ski boots you have unless you can find someone with SB boots that will fit you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 When you know you are coming, shoot me that PM. We'll go from there. Setting the board(s) up will be the most important thing. My boots will be too big for you, so you will have to wear the ski boots you have unless you can find someone with SB boots that will fit you. cool man, you said you work 6 days, is there a certain day you have off so I know not to plan for that day? I'll just have to wear ski boots i guess. This is a huge favor man, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Ah so, basically, in order to counter act this, I would want my boot angled so that when I'm just standing on the board flat, my knees would be bent?Would something like this help with heelside control? Well, imo the whole point of hardboots is to angle your feet towards the long axis of the board enough such that the amount of heelside edge angle you "lose" by bending your knees can be easily compensated for by learning the opposite direction with your waist. e.g. in flat angles like 25/15, if you bend your knees a lot, you can kind of sort of compensate by leaning way way over at the waist. If you bend your knees a lot at 65/60 you can compensate by only leaning over a little bit at the waist. Just my opinion - I'm sure others have differing ones :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I'm off Sundays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 It's worth keeping an eye on the classifieds forum here, you can try a couple boards and re-sell the ones you don't care for. I have an F2 183 that I really enjoy for going fast on groomers mid-week, and they turn up in the classifieds here pretty regularly for $250-$350 depending on condition. It's got a 19cm waist which might be a little tight with your big feets, but it can't hurt to try - if it doesn't work out, you can probably re-sell it for near what you paid for it. As if on cue: http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24244 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Das Amputator I believe.Hope that's ok. Thought it was a real nice example. In the digital photo montage sequence thread. Same with B2s. Being a photographer myself I have some mad respect for yours and Lowells' photos. I would only ever cross post to bomber and would never use in any other way without contacting you. No problem at all. Anything online unless it's specifically protected or watermarked is fair game, imo. As if on cue:http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24244 Sweet board, but too long radius for learning carving. 15 or 16m, iirc. I'd rather see him on a F2 177. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I sort of agree, but: I've been snowboarding for about 20 years, all this time I have only enjoyed carving and speed. [....] I need a setup that will allow me to go extremely fast [....] I realize a long board and stiff boot are difficult for beginners, but I would prefer to learn the hard way and not buy new equipment once I get the hang of it. I figure he's got the right expectations. After falling to the inside of the turn for a run or three (been there done that myself) he'll find this board's happy speed range and carve radius, and then he'll figure out the speeds it wants and the turns it makes. It will be hard to master, but it sounds like he's motivated to learn. Or maybe he'll have new appreciation for what fast carving can be. It's going to be a big step up from a freeride board. :) Worst case, I figure he might decide to get something like the 177 to ease the transition, and then switch back to the 183. But I think that's where he's going to be happiest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.