jp1 Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 shawndoggy, here's the Lowes numbers: Lowes # 223646, 1 Pkg. of (2) 10-32 X 9/32 TEE NUTS-BRAD HOLE-STAINLESS STEEL, Manufacturer= HILLMAN, Cost $4.47 Used these where the buckle was riveted, used 10-32 X 1/2" long Pan Head Stainless Steel Screws, bought a Pkg. of (10) for $1.00 Lowes # 137348, (2) Pkgs. of (1) each, 5/16-18 X 5/8, T-NUT-BRAD HOLE. Manufacturer= HILLMAN, Cost $1.04 @ Total $2.08 I used a 5/16-18 Stainless Steel Button Head bolt 1/2" long in these (I had these laying around). This was for the Pivot Point where Strap is attached. Also, I cut out some shims from a sheet of .020" Teflon, to go between the Bottom Shell and the Cuff (.630" ID X 1.250" OD.) I used a Stainless Steel flat washers between the original head of large rivet (at Strap) and the Button Head bolt to take up excess clearance for now. I'll later determine the amount I have to gind off and do it that way, or machine a new piece. The only drawback is these pieces are all Standard (US). I hate mixing Standard and Metric on the same parts, but without machining all new pieces they will work fine. They actuall press right in to the boot, like they were made for them. This was on the Stratos, not the Stratos Pros, I can only assume the holes are the same diameters and attach the same?? I have a pair of pros being shipped to me to do the modification to them. If they are any different, I will post. Then I will finally know the answer to the Stratos / Stratos Pro 'tongue question!' Tried boots with the Modification today, Sweet , can't wait to get the softer springs to try! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawndoggy Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 wtf? youtube apparently took down my boot flex video? I guess it was pretty racy :rolleyes: email me through bol and I'll forward it along to anyone who is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawndoggy Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 well, let's see if this edit gets banned: <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUGMzhnnlp8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUGMzhnnlp8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Seen ! I don't see so much forward lean. Apart the BTS, did you make any cutting / tuning in the shell ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawndoggy Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Arnaud, I've cut the wings, that is all. Haven't drilled out the rivet, enlarged the pivot hole, or cut the back of the shell. Just going one step at a time. I've got substantially more flex than stock. It does seem, though, that the second and third buckles will start to restrict much more forward movement. Do you have any experience with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 that the second and third buckles Where do you start counting ? First on the toe ? If yes, second is not a problem, but third may be. Personally, I don't clamp the 3rd buckle, so it's not a problem. It's also possible to modify the attach of this buckle to increase flex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf Quebec Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 It depends on the size of the boots. I'm wearing mondo 25.5 HSP boots and yes the the buckles are touching themselves. I have a friend with a bigger size and they do not touch at all. So if having a small boot, there is resistance in the forward flex because of the buckles touching themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Alright, this is an old thread but figured I ask advice before I cut my boots and start tinkering with adjustments... 1. is there any difference between the older orange HSP and the newer black ones? Are you guys still cutting the wings on the black ones or is there a difference/improvement in the shells that I should know about? I find my boots pretty stiff and would like to soften them a touch. 2. To increase forward lean with the stock mechanism do I move the whole spring (ie move both nuts equal distance) up or down? I noticed the min/max indicator...max towards the bottom and vice versa but this seems backwards to me. 3. Can someone please confirm if the orange tongues are softer than the black ones. Thanks for helping a newb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heroshmero Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Hilux: 1. Sorry, can't comment. I never had the orange boots. 2. To increase forward lean, move both nuts up. The upper nut sets the limit of the forward lean. The bottom nut adjusts the amount of spring tension you get when flexing the boot toward that forward lean limit. 3. Yes, orange tongues are softer than the black ones. Apparently there are grey tongues that are even stiffer than the black. So, it would be orange: soft, black: standard and grey: race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Hilux, I've done the Modifications on the orange, black and the smoke (not Pros) colors of HS & HSP. While I have no gauge to measure durometer, they all feel slightly different and for sure work different when cutting sanding and drilling. 1. They all appeared to be out of the same mold, difference being in feel and workability. My opinion without a doubt, cut the back wings, how much is your decision. I went small and ended up full cut out. I like a boot that bends at the ankle like my foot. I control the feel with BTS. 2. I forget what the stock system was, do yourself a favor and trash it for the BTS :) (you'll thank me). 3. Confirmed, the orange tongues I have had are the softest of any of the colors. The silver tongues are by far the stiffest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf Quebec Posted January 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Hilux, cutting you boots without using anoter spring system will not bring a lot of flex, you need something like the BTS or Arnaud's ACSS. If using the BTS, be careful where you drill the boots, I did bend the stem while riding.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Perfect, thanks for the info guys. I think I try cutting the wings in increments and for sure get the BTS (for some reason I thought it was some ridiculous price). Did the BTS you all got come from Bomber store? I have a bunch of bookmarked "how to BTS" and am mechanically inclined although am a little nervous regardless of how competent and careful I think I can be. What was the hardest part of BTS'ing the boots? Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrol Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 OK, I'm apparently an internet newb... but an eager boot hacker... where's the video? From This thread, Post #9 Direct link to the video : click here btw, I have done All with the exception of drilling out the rivot but I plan on doing that very soon...;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf Quebec Posted January 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 The BTS is a very good product, but it is designed for the Deeluxe boots not the Head boots. A lot of people have installed the BTS on their Head boots, It's quite easy to do, in my case it seems I didn't drill at the good place as I bend the stem while riding. Other people have built their own spring system, go on the forum of extremecarving.com and look for ACSS, you'll have a lot of info . For me at 160pounds the haed boots were too rigid so cutting the wings has help my riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Stephane, I'll go out on a limb here and guess that you bent the stem on the back boot ? No, I'm not phychic ;). I know (or I am wrong) because that is the one I bent, and Fin told me why. That is the one that the chair lift hits and bends he was right (as usual). It is pretty common. I never noticed it before, but did afterwards when paying specific attention to it. Hilux, If you think the BTS is a rediculous price, build your own and see what it costs, I looked into it. The hardest part of the BTS installation on Heads is locating the top pin accurately and drilling. When ordering the BTS, order the Long Pins also, they are the Proper Diameter for the BTS. Refer to past threads for extensive information on both and more. Once you've done the Boot Modification, the BTS is a piece of cake ! It'll be your Favorite Cake !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 How much does the BTS really matter here? I'm just not seeing it. Granted, I have not tried it (don't have one installed)...but I just don't see what it would do. I just bought a random spring from the hardware store that was softer than the stock springs and I can't really see how I would get any more movement out of the boots. I feel like there is only so far that they can flex before they hit the buckles. Is the BTS about how easy it is to flex them that far? In that case I would just buy a couple springs from the hardware store and see which ones I liked the best. Not that I ride in walk mode, but don't you get the same flex if you just leave it in walk mode? Please don't take this post the wrong way - anything I can do to make these boots better/softer is a must for me at 150lbs. I'm just looking for an explanation. I need to go look at shawndoggy's video again to see how much flex he's getting.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 NickG, you just answered your own question, but you would not know it without having the BTS. You can NOT feel any difference because the stock system is limiting the amount of travel. IF you have Heads that are NOT modified the interferance (friction) between the boot pieces and the back 'wings' are severly limiting the ability of the boot to pivot. ' Please don't take this post the wrong way - anything I can do to make these boots better/softer is a must for me at 150lbs. I'm just looking for an explanation.' Buddy you need to start hackin'. What size boot are you wearing? I'll meet you @ Blue one day and show you a Modified boot. You'll be ordering BTS and hacking them suckers up as an off-season project, if not before ! jp1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraph Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Stephane, I'll go out on a limb here and guess that you bent the stem on the back boot ?No, I'm not phychic ;). I know (or I am wrong) because that is the one I bent, and Fin told me why. That is the one that the chair lift hits and bends he was right (as usual). It is pretty common. I never noticed it before, but did afterwards when paying specific attention to it. Hilux, If you think the BTS is a rediculous price, build your own and see what it costs, I looked into it. The hardest part of the BTS installation on Heads is locating the top pin accurately and drilling. When ordering the BTS, order the Long Pins also, they are the Proper Diameter for the BTS. Refer to past threads for extensive information on both and more. Once you've done the Boot Modification, the BTS is a piece of cake ! It'll be your Favorite Cake !! Yup, I also bent the stem on a chairlift. And I thought I was the only one. In my opinion, the BTS has been worth the price, was easy to install, and enhanced the other modifications I made to the boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 ack! my mistake, I should have posted more info. Ha, i feel like i've read the mod thread so many times that I guess I forgot I never actually posted in it. I have severely cut those wings out, and even a little more than maybe I should have around the bottom where I felt it was also grabbing. I didn't drill out the rivet, but I was able to bend the top part completely out of the way and really hack at the material at the top. I certainly have way more flex than stock. I will post a video later tonight if I can, or tomorrow when I have more time. jp1, I would definitely be up for meeting. I will actually be there tomorrow (friday, I do the morning ticket, of course), but I'm trying to avoid it this weekend (with the holiday and all). I will keep posting in the NY,PA, NJ thread about my availability :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf Quebec Posted January 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 John, I bend the stem on the front boot ... (too much leg press this summer ???) A friend of mine is making me it's own version of a spring system, I can't wait to try it... I'll use the BTS on an old pair of soft raichlee boots , that will be my powder setup ! NickG, The reason Fin made a BTS is because the spring on the Deeluxe is quite small (same thing for head) and there is not much travel with it. With a longer spring you can flex more. The other reason is that you have 2 springs, 1 for toeside and 1for heelside. With the flex I got from my tuned head boots I can carve thighter turn than before on my stiff SG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 JP Hilux, If you think the BTS is a rediculous price, build your own and see what it costs, I looked into it. Oh, I just meant I thought I saw it for $250-300 a while back (don't know why I saw that) but then saw it for much cheaper at the bomber store. Either way, I just have to try it. And thanks for the advice and encouragement...I may have to wait though before I start trimming and drilling, see below. Side note: New development in my boots. While switching the tongues over to orange I noticed a small crack (half inch maybe) just in front of the outside bolt (ie not the one holding down the bail clip m'jigs). It's on the softer part where the shell overlays are so don't know how bad this is but do notice a bit more compression when buckling my race plates. The crack is about 1/2 inch from the bolt hole. Anything thoughts? Probably too late for warranty. It makes me a little nervous and sick to my stomach cause I just bought them used from a member here and only used them once for half a day. I'll get pics later...for now I just need to and let this sink in. Huh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Hilux, Need picture of crack (in boot :)) not sure without seeing, but it sounds as though it may be another case of not having the tongue overlap precise?? Just think, the BTS was on sale for a while for $50 and I did the Mods for a friend and could not talk him into them! Not a very good salesman I guess. NickG, if you see this call me @ nine-zero-eight-for-ate-for-for-ate-for-for, if I get the call I'll run up with boots, can't ride yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transistor Rhythm Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I had softer Blax boots, and the kidney shaped hole was like a hard stop for my forward flex. The flaps in the rear jammed the forward flex a bit but the full stop was because the of the hole. Cutting the flaps only made the motion until the hard stop a bit lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Hilux, Need picture of crack (in boot :)) not sure without seeing, but it sounds as though it may be another case of not having the tongue overlap precise?? Here are the pics of crack. It doesn't seem to affect boots performance...yet, however as mentioned above, as soon as the toe bail is locked in I feel the boot contort ever so slightly. In case anyone is wondering too, I don't have it set too tight either; it's a notch or two away from being a little loose but I get good boot bail contact, any looser and I'd be worried. Other than that I don't notice any difference. I suppose I'll just keep an eye on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Hilux, sorry I can't really see anything in those pics. All I can see is the line where the 'rubber absorber' (at the base of the tongue) mates to the toe of the boot shell. Does not appear to be anything to do with the tongue overlap though in that area. Stephane, When I went to look at my boots better to see what Hilux pictures were showing, I noticed the stem on my (front boot) is bent again. I spoke wrong above . The boot that is affected by the chair lift hitting it would be the front boot (the one that stays in the binding while riding the lift). Check it out while loading on lift, I didn't think that was the case for me either, but it was (or I guess, still is). I guess when you get old and fat (me) it gets harder to push the front foot forward out of the way of the chair. Some are a lot lower than others and using a plate system compounds it more because of the added height. Luckily, I bought a spare while @ Bomber time to go put it in & order a couple more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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