hardware recomendations

[Guest enormo]

I’m looking to upgrade my stick. For the past 5-6 years I’ve been riding a Super Model 174. The thing is a total noodle (a friend who’s a pretty good boarder convinced me that he knew what he was talking about and sold me on getting the SuperModel) and it’s not complementary to my riding style… I like to turn hard and if conditions are right, carve hard.

I’ve considered getting an alpine board but I usually board with a group of friends made up of skiers, freestyle boarders and all-mountain type boarders. So, I need a board that will function relatively well in diverse conditions. Also, I don’t get a chance to ride very often (10 –14 days per year max) so a really technically demanding board might be too much for me.

In general I would consider myself a solid intermediate border who knows how to plant a rail and go fast... usually really hard early in the day and then cruising a bit more in the afternoon. Also, I have a relatively aggressive stance angle.

Any recommendations for board/binding/boot set ups for someone like me? Would a board like the Donek Axis be too hard core for me? Would a more all-mountain board/soft boot set up be better for me?

Specifics would be great.

Thanks!

[D-Sub]

Donek makes the Axis, Prior makes the 4WD and Coiler makes the All Mountain

in all honesty, I think you could _learn_ to utilize any of those on every aspect of pretty much any hill

youre gonna get major mixed responses on this, and really, no one can tell you whats right for you.

There have been times when Ive thought of going "all hard" but then...when it dumps, I just cant help but get out the softies and ride my Oxygen 178 powder board.

ideal situation would be at least two board/boot setups...maybe you could keep the supermodel for the full on powder days and try an all mountain carver for the in between or hardpack days?

just a note: Im selling a Coiler AM177. Only selling it because Im ordering a custom FC or PR184 for next season (I personally would rather ride a hard setup on those "ideal" carving days so Im getting something carve specific)

[Guest Ghostrider]

I might be a little biased, but I'd suggest a SL Volkl. They have a little bit softer nose for a little more plush ride in the junk. And the wider sl style is pretty fun for laying down if you are with people who just like to cruise. And if it dumps, the widness will also help you to stay afloat.

But thats just my $0.02

[D-Sub]

shorter though, no?

but thats an option too! but you can get a longer board with a shorter sidecut for more turnability

[lonerider]

Originally posted by enormo

I’m looking to upgrade my stick. For the past 5-6 years I’ve been riding a Super Model 174. The thing is a total noodle (a friend who’s a pretty good boarder convinced me that he knew what he was talking about and sold me on getting the SuperModel) and it’s not complementary to my riding style… I like to turn hard and if conditions are right, carve hard.

I’ve considered getting an alpine board but I usually board with a group of friends made up of skiers, freestyle boarders and all-mountain type boarders. So, I need a board that will function relatively well in diverse conditions. Also, I don’t get a chance to ride very often (10 –14 days per year max) so a really technically demanding board might be too much for me.

In general I would consider myself a solid intermediate border who knows how to plant a rail and go fast... usually really hard early in the day and then cruising a bit more in the afternoon. Also, I have a relatively aggressive stance angle.

Any recommendations for board/binding/boot set ups for someone like me? Would a board like the Donek Axis be too hard core for me? Would a more all-mountain board/soft boot set up be better for me?

Specifics would be great.

Thanks!

Looks like people have been discussing what alpine boards to get. I will be the devil's advocate and advise against getting an alpine board like a Donek Axis / Prior 4WD / Coiler AM UNLESS you are set on getting into hardboot setups (and you will still probably want a softboot setup as a second set)

From what I've read and what I've experienced riding the 4WD 169/174 cm, you really need the leverage you get from plate bindings and hard boots to ride these all-mountain alpine boards well. However, I'm told the Catek Freeride strap bindings give you enough leverage to ride an all-mountain alpine board, but I don't know if that's true... does anyone ride softboots on such a board?

Going hardboots is fun, but it will be at least a season before you will be able to ride with your friends (I'm sure some people learn faster, but I'd rather over-estimate than under-estimate). Even then, I'm not sure you will ever really prefer the variety of terrain anyone else (skiiers, freestylers, tree powder rider) will like...

This being the digital waterhole for hardbooters, you are going to get many hardcore hardbooters say they can ride anything and everything anyone else does, or at least that one "could" learn to do it. And it's true, it is possible. I'm not going to really debate the likelihood of such a thing, I just suggest that you just consider it for a moment before shelling out for a lot of gear.

I suggest checking out stiff freeride/all mountain boards like the Salomon Definition or Donek Incline (Wide/Saquatch if you have big feet). For bindings I suggest Nidecker Carbons, Salomon SP4/SP5/SP6, Ride, or even Catek Freerides. Boots I suggest Salomon Dialogue, Salomon Malamute... I've heard that ThirtyTwo boots are good too because of their Intuition heat-moldable liners (but I haven't tried them personally).

BTW, how heavy are you and how big are your feet? What *is* you "relatively" aggressive stance? 45*/30*?

Just my thoughts on alternative options.

[Guest enormo]

Originally posted by lonerider

Looks like people have been discussing what alpine boards to get. I will be the devil's advocate and advise against getting an alpine board like a Donek Axis / Prior 4WD / Coiler AM UNLESS you are set on getting into hardboot setups (and you will still probably want a softboot setup as a second set)

From what I've read and what I've experienced riding the 4WD 169/174 cm, you really need the leverage you get from plate bindings and hard boots to ride these all-mountain alpine boards well. However, I'm told the Catek Freeride strap bindings give you enough leverage to ride an all-mountain alpine board, but I don't know if that's true... does anyone ride softboots on such a board?

Going hardboots is fun, but it will be at least a season before you will be able to ride with your friends (I'm sure some people learn faster, but I'd rather over-estimate than under-estimate). Even then, I'm not sure you will ever really prefer the variety of terrain anyone else (skiiers, freestylers, tree powder rider) will like...

This being the digital waterhole for hardbooters, you are going to get many hardcore hardbooters say they can ride anything and everything anyone else does, or at least that one "could" learn to do it. And it's true, it is possible. I'm not going to really debate the likelihood of such a thing, I just suggest that you just consider it for a moment before shelling out for a lot of gear.

I suggest checking out stiff freeride/all mountain boards like the Salomon Definition or Donek Incline (Wide/Saquatch if you have big feet). For bindings I suggest Nidecker Carbons, Salomon SP4/SP5/SP6, Ride, or even Catek Freerides. Boots I suggest Salomon Dialogue, Salomon Malamute... I've heard that ThirtyTwo boots are good too because of their Intuition heat-moldable liners (but I haven't tried them personally).

BTW, how heavy are you and how big are your feet? What *is* you "relatively" aggressive stance? 45*/30*?

Just my thoughts on alternative options.

Interesting input from everyone so far. Thanks.

Lonerider. I'm 160 (6 ft) and my feet are size 10.5/11. I'll have to check my board to figure out my stance. I'll also check out all that equipment you mentioned. (Thanks for the thorough rundown!)

Yeah... I think the freeride/all-mountain set up might be the way to go for the time being. Are the boots you mentioned pretty stiff for soft boots?

Ive heard good things about the Arbor S-Series and the Woodie. Anyone have input on those. (I come from a surfing background so I'm a sucker for some of their marketing.)

Thanks again everybody! It's cool to find a sight where boarders actually know how to turn!!!!

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you want to stay soft, look at boards like the Donek Incline or the Prior MFR. Prior's got a sale going on right now on demo/blem stuff, I think somebody else here just posted that they picked up an MFR. For mainstream manufacturers, look at the boardercross models. A search here for "boardercross" ought to turn up lots of info. IIRC Volkl, Salomon, F2 and others all make stiff fast boards that work with softies.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by enormo

Interesting input from everyone so far. Thanks.

Lonerider. I'm 160 (6 ft) and my feet are size 10.5/11. I'll have to check my board to figure out my stance. I'll also check out all that equipment you mentioned. (Thanks for the thorough rundown!)

Yeah... I think the freeride/all-mountain set up might be the way to go for the time being. Are the boots you mentioned pretty stiff for soft boots?

Ive heard good things about the Arbor S-Series and the Woodie. Anyone have input on those. (I come from a surfing background so I'm a sucker for some of their marketing.)

Thanks again everybody! It's cool to find a sight where boarders actually know how to turn!!!!

Ok, I'm 152 lbs 5'8" and my feet are a puny size 8 and I ride a Donek Incline 155. If you do indeed ride extreme angles, there is a "purple" Incline 155 on sale for $260!!! (only one). If it's gone by the time you ask, I would recommend (out of Donek) the Donek Wide 156 for your foot size at $370. Don't let the low price fool you, it's as good or better than many $450-500 models I've ridden.

Neil made a good point and Prior also has a sale ($C50 off all Demo/Used and $C150 off all new boards). There is a MFR 162 going for $C420 - 50 = 370 CND or... roughly $300 USD. Or you could go get a new Men's Freeride (MFR) or All Mountain Freestyle (AMF) for like $420 US. I've only ridden the alpine models, but I'm pretty sure Prior freeride/freestyle boards are quite good as well.

As for the Arbor boards... I've been told they are a little soft, although others seem to like it (no one whos opinion I trust though). Overall I've done a lot of asking and no one with a lot of snowboarding experience seems to have ridden the boards and so there is a big question mark by the brand. I like the idea of bamboo topsheets... but I'm skeptical that I haven't heard more about them since they are a relatively large company (although their boards are made at the Option factory I'm told).

The Salomon Dialogue is medium stiffness, Synapse is a little stiffer. The Salomon Malamute is very stiff (one of the stiffest). The ThirtyTwo TeamOne is medium stiff I'm told, while the TeamTwo is soft (for freestyle).

Most of the bindings I suggested are on the stiff end... especially the Nidecker Carbon and the Catek Freerides. The high-end Ride and Salomons are pretty stiff as well.

[Hans]

Well,

I had say go for a board that is stiff, long and wide enough to do some off piste stuff as well with your board. You need some length as well for powder but also some length to keep up with the speed of skiers. Myself I ride a POGO Longboard 175. This board has alpinerails, is wide and long enough to do everything on piste (ride fast/hard), and to do anything offpiste (deep snow because of the width). You can ride this board with a softsetup and a hardsetup. There is also a Longboard 180 and a custom 200! If I broke this one, I would still buy the same again. But because of the exchange rate I think this board will be too expensive to import from Europe: € 799.--. But it's a great board when you are looking for a Mercedes SLK among boards.

May be there are some equal boards in your country. An alternative would be a F2 Eliminator Limited WIDE 169 04/05 with a F-8000 base. You can buy this one from www.blue-tomato.at already. Great highspeed carve allmountain boardercross board for an agressive ridingstyle with softboots, big size mondo (€ 549.--).

Greets, Hans.

[Al G]

I was in exactly the same position as you - I'm 6'2" and bought a Supemodel as a 'do it all, one board in my quiver' solution...

I soon found it was excellent on steep powder but I really didn't get on with it riding hard on piste, even with fairly foward binding angles and stiff boots.

After four years I have decided to get a proper carve board. I have gone for the Silberpfiel 171 (easier to get hold of here in Europe than Donecs, etc.). The Supermodel will become my back-up for full on snow days, and the Silberpfiel will be used for full on carving.

Al G

[Guest Ghostrider]

Originally posted by D-Sub

shorter though, no?

Yea its shorter..the SL tops out at 163, but I love the board and it turns pretty good on the groomed and small enough to maneuver around the "all-mountain" stuff. But I gotta wonder I always see people talking about huge boards...why? Yea they go faster, but if not in a race situation, why does that matter? Could it just be the "Glen Plake Syndrome"? Old School vs New School? All the younger (18-25) guys I ride with dont have a board over 168. But most the guys older than that dont ride a board under 168...

The ski industry has figured out that with a snowboard shaped ski, they can cut the skis 3/4 the size..sooo why are guys riding snowboards that are ginormous?

[bobdea]

172 rode one this winter does it all very well mid wide

26.7 waist I think dont quote me on that though

its not a door like most wide boards I do prefer a donek sasquatch though

the baron is somewhat turny and you can really rip turns on it stiffer than most freeride decks but softer than a donek sas or wide

I do have to say its more versitile than a sas though maybe do to a more even and softer flex

you can find them for about 250 to $300 right now

nitro makes some great decks too check em out

one thing I really recomend is a stiff boot paired with a stiff binding catek freeride is my choice with burton driver boots I like these because of the removable plastic tongue wich makes the flex of the boot adjustable comes in handy when you wanna be a park rat for a day or when it gets reeeeeeeealy deep

solomon boots I think have poor design but top notch materials the damn lace locks slip and the fit just does not work for me but try em on and see how it goes mine packed out a good bit as well too its been a few years since those boots I had maybe they have their **** together now though

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by Ghostrider

Yea its shorter..the SL tops out at 163, but I love the board and it turns pretty good on the groomed and small enough to maneuver around the "all-mountain" stuff. But I gotta wonder I always see people talking about huge boards...why? Yea they go faster, but if not in a race situation, why does that matter? Could it just be the "Glen Plake Syndrome"? Old School vs New School? All the younger (18-25) guys I ride with dont have a board over 168. But most the guys older than that dont ride a board under 168...

The ski industry has figured out that with a snowboard shaped ski, they can cut the skis 3/4 the size..sooo why are guys riding snowboards that are ginormous?

I wasnt criticizing your board size, man. The guy asked about a specific size range is all

I like bigger boards because I feel more powerful on one. Maybe its mental, who knows.

funny thing though...when I lived in steamboat I rode a Morrow Revert 156 in ALL conditions except when I got out the carving board, and I had a blast on that thing. I could ride it fast as hell in the deepest fluff, carve it fairly well, and ride both directions with a passing level of proficiency. I was lighter then by about 30 pounds...

since then anything under 165 has felt small. dunno.

[Art]

I would recommend that you demo as many boards as possible. Depending on where you live, that can be a logistical nightmare or easy as pie. In the northwest, there are a few donek demos floating around, but you might even be able to hook up with some of the people on this site and look at or maybe even demo a board (if you can wait that long). Good luck

[knoch]

Ken W., your theory on skis isn't that true, i hit 70 m.p.h on my 163's and they weren't shaky at all. They carve a hella tight turn too, i catch myself booting out way too often. As for snowboards, i think anything between 155 and 185 would be a resonable all mountain do everything board, anything longer or shorter than that is going to either be not responsive enough, or too snappy.

[Guest enormo]

wow. I sure have my offseason work cut out for me.

Thanks for the voluminous ammounts of greate info!

[Guest Ghostrider]

I can also say that both Bruce at Coiler, and Sean at Donek, in general, do not recommend short SL boards for all purpose riding.

Yea, why don't they reccomend them??

Is it just because its hard to stay laterally stable on them? I find that having a shorter board that may not be rock solid laterally is better because if I hit an unexpected bump and get tossed forward, I'd rather roll over my board than bend a knee in the wrong direction because my board is too big to roll.

I'm not trying to question anybodys riding ability or step on any toes when I say this, but if they only reccomend long boards to make up for lateral stability...isnt that a flaw in your riding style? It reminds me of a guy who used to ski with his din setting so low that he could knock his foot out by smacking the toe of his boot with a ski pole. But with extremely proper skiing style, he could run a GS course on the same setting.

[bobdea]

in the wrong conditions and the nose like most race decks has little shovel some added length really helps in the nasty conditions and somewhat compensates for the lack of shovel so thats one reason to go bigger and that short sidecut will get ya the chatters at speed unless its a ------>Madd<------

but still at speed a larger board with a wide sidecut radius would be prefered

[mirror70]

Ghostrider - it's probably because proper SL boards are VERY quick, VERY snappy, and VERY unforgiving. My first day out on my F2 Speedster SL I went over the nose twice, with the second time being so quick and with so much pop that after hitting my head on the nose I actually landed upright and would have stayed up had I known WTF just happened. For this reason, very few people will recommend proper SL boards to anyone who hasn't ridden long enough to already have an idea of what one is like.

[skeez rule]

they are better than any snowboard

they have titanium

[Guest Ghostrider]

Originally posted by skeez rule

they are better than any snowboard

they have titanium

Welcome back skeez rule...havent heard from you in a while!

But I dunno..check this out

http://www.snowandrock.com/burton_t6_snowboard.htm

...snowboards now use aerospace technology. yea..no lie. this is serious stuff. Do you know what that means!? yea thats right..its means the snowboard has been designed to work in space. oh yea...thats right...I'll say it again...they are designed to work in space. I kid you not my two plankin friend. Skis dont have aerospace technology. How can you compete agains that huh!? Yea skis might get you into the stratosphere, but if you wanna be in the Ionosphere....well you're gonna need a snowboard, bottom line.

[Guest enormo]

Originally posted by skeez rule

they are better than any snowboard

they have titanium

You snowboard on skis? You must be the best snowboarder here.

(I have a flashlight made of titanium. Can't snowboard on that worth a damn.)

[skeez rule]

Originally posted by Ghostrider

Welcome back skeez rule...havent heard from you in a while!

But I dunno..check this out

http://www.snowandrock.com/burton_t6_snowboard.htm

...snowboards now use aerospace technology. yea..no lie. this is serious stuff. Do you know what that means!? yea thats right..its means the snowboard has been designed to work in space. oh yea...thats right...I'll say it again...they are designed to work in space. I kid you not my two plankin friend. Skis dont have aerospace technology. How can you compete agains that huh!? Yea skis might get you into the stratosphere, but if you wanna be in the Ionosphere....well you're gonna need a snowboard, bottom line.

so they still use crappy wood too

for it to be super good it needs the Microcell core and dual tech sidewalls

[Guest enormo]

Hey Skeez,

What's up with the ballet dancer in your avatar?

[Jack M]

http://bomberonline.com/articles/how_to_buy_snowboard.cfm

enormo, from your post at the top of this thread, I'd say you definitely are in search of an all-mountain carving board such as a Prior 4WD, Donek Axis, or Coiler All-Mountain. And guessing from your name, I wouldn't go below 172cm!

-Jack