Aisling Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 out of curiosity, bob, what do you think the punishment should be for the men who kidnapped and murdered journalist Daniel Pearl? are they "soldiers" or "terrorists"? do they follow Geneva Convention? Point I'm making is yeah, people should be held accountable for doing terrible things. Doesn't matter who you are. Does it always happen? No. How many torturers in Germany got away with human rights violations? I'd guess several. Same for the Vietnamese who held Americans captive. On the whole I think our military is NOT full of asshats, but as someone else pointed out, the mistakes made by some morons are being painted broad spectrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 no matter what, there should have been a disclaimer on what the video was going to show when posted. I didn't have to see that horror. I agree, even if the puppy was sick, a humane death is much better than hucking it like a used piece of gum. disgusting. I hope I never ever get to be that person, war or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 out of curiosity, bob, what do you think the punishment should be for the men who kidnapped and murdered journalist Daniel Pearl? are they "soldiers" or "terrorists"? do they follow Geneva Convention?Point I'm making is yeah, people should be held accountable for doing terrible things. Doesn't matter who you are. Does it always happen? No. How many torturers in Germany got away with human rights violations? I'd guess several. Same for the Vietnamese who held Americans captive. On the whole I think our military is NOT full of asshats, but as someone else pointed out, the mistakes made by some morons are being painted broad spectrum. Well, if they're iraqi they're essentially civilians. As such they are subject to punishment by the local government. Your argument is as if you were to say, the criminals in boston don't play by the rules. Why should the Boston police? It's not a argument that's terribly valid for obvious reasons. Are you say we should be at no higher standard than the third reich, Pol Pot's goons, the NVA. Our national security is at stake, this war and what we allow our military to do does us no favors and creates the conditions that foster terrorism. Al, the photo states the obvious, no one cared enough to the point that they thought this was acceptable. ****, look at the statements given by the upper level officers right up to the generals involved, no one was willing to take responsibility. Real soldiers pass the buck I guess. If you can't run a competent military you have no business invading another country. We're supposed to give detainees the protections of the geneva conventions be them in iraq, gitmo or anywhere else, our supreme court says so anyway. The Bush administration tried to get around that but the supreme court said no way. even civilians are covered in the fourth article to some extent protections for civilians are slightly different and a little more limited than for POWs, under Article 4 "Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals." Under the convention civilians have these rights below 1. They shall be enabled to receive the individual or collective relief that may be sent to them. 2. They shall, if their state of health so requires, receive medical attention and hospital treatment to the same extent as the nationals of the State concerned. 3. They shall be allowed to practice their religion and to receive spiritual assistance from ministers of their faith. 4. If they reside in an area particularly exposed to the dangers of war, they shall be authorized to move from that area to the same extent as the nationals of the State concerned. 5. Children under fifteen years, pregnant women and mothers of children under seven years shall benefit by any preferential treatment to the same extent as the nationals of the State concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 more canine killing, here, we see killing of animals as sport which could be property of people in iraq and also waste of munitions. nice video, a quality bunch we have over there representing us. http://www.yikers.com/video_blowing_up_dogs.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Bob Dea -- Were you ever in the military? If so what branch and rank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDY_2_Carve Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Ok so here's some footage of prarie dogs getting abused. Nobody cares really: <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-N0U48MNQY&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-N0U48MNQY&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> If dogs weren't domesticated nobody would care either. As a matter of fact the number of wolves killed in New Mexico every year is insane. They are pretty much dogs and nobody cares because they are wild not domesticated. Wild hogs are being slaughtered in Texas because they are a threat to our livestock and nobody seems to care. They are being killed and burned when there is plenty of hog meat that could be taken advantage of. Thousand of children are starving to death in Africa every day that could use this hog meat and still nobody cares or complains or makes a video on youtube about it. So here we are so concerned about one little puppy, or one dog, and what the military is doing over in Iraq when it's 1000X worse in our own back yard and goes unnoticed. Let's do up a story on that and get it put on cnn.com. It's only fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Bob Dea -- Were you ever in the military? If so what branch and rank? So what's the implication in that question ? Oh sorry I forgot, only people who have worn the uniform know anything about these things. That explains a lot about Cheney and Rummi. Bob Dea has made made a lot of inteligent comments on the conduct of this occupation. Trying to go back to the jingoistic attitudes that stopped any real discussion for the last four years is sticking your head in the sand. The only commanders on the ground in Iraq until recently, who had any clue were the ones that had served with NATO in the Balkans. The others seemed to have missed all recent history of terrorism and insurgency in thier training. If you don't think the behavior of US forces in Iraq has been irrisponsible let me ask you this. What do you think would have happened if American people had seen the same sort of pictures and reports comming out of Northern Ireland during the eighties. Airstrikes against insurgent leaders in populated ares that happen to kill innocent women and kids, Abu Grahb, etc . There would have been thousands of Irish American citizens signing up to join the IRA and the financial support for terrorism would have been far greater than it was. If the Iraq situation is improving, it has more to do with changing tactics and not antagonising the local population than any increase in troop numbers. Yes I know the vast majority of US personnel are wonderful people who do give a damn. The commanders have totally let them down with thier lack of leadership and moral commitment which manifest itself in these embarasing incidents, time and time again. BobD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 So what's the implication in that question ?Oh sorry I forgot, only people who have worn the uniform know anything about these things. That explains a lot about Cheney and Rummi. Bob Dea has made made a lot of inteligent comments on the conduct of this occupation. Trying to go back to the jingoistic attitudes that stopped any real discussion for the last four years is sticking your head in the sand. The only commanders on the ground in Iraq until recently, who had any clue were the ones that had served with NATO in the Balkans. The others seemed to have missed all recent history of terrorism and insurgency in thier training. If you don't think the behavior of US forces in Iraq has been irrisponsible let me ask you this. What do you think would have happened if American people had seen the same sort of pictures and reports comming out of Northern Ireland during the eighties. Airstrikes against insurgent leaders in populated ares that happen to kill innocent women and kids, Abu Grahb, etc . There would have been thousands of Irish American citizens signing up to join the IRA and the financial support for terrorism would have been far greater than it was. If the Iraq situation is improving, it has more to do with changing tactics and not antagonising the local population than any increase in troop numbers. Yes I know the vast majority of US personnel are wonderful people who do give a damn. The commanders have totally let them down with thier lack of leadership and moral commitment which manifest itself in these embarasing incidents, time and time again. BobD Bob, I withdraw the question .. I did not mean to hit a nerve. My apologies.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 It's such a touchy issue. I know you don't have your head in the sand. It's a changing world and we expect our leaders to be ahead of the curve. Unfortunately so many of them (on both sides of the political spectrum) are stuck in the first half (well 70 years) of the 20th century. We have to be smarter than that if we are to have a peaceful future. BobD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 At the risk of breathing life into a thread that deserves to die of natural causes, I found this compelling: http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2008/03/11/omar_fekeiki/ (Click on "Enter Salon" in upper right as soon as the ad goes away.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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