Thank God SB6900 died - POLITICAL

[Derf]

+1 - also they do not get the wonderful mileage what Toyota says they get, a friend just bought a Highlander SUV hybrid, he gets 22 mpg which is worse than my Corvette.

I'd be curious to see how he drives it? But still, an SUV is an SUV: a big square steel box on wheels. People underestimate the effect of a good Cx on fuel economy.

[Derf]

I guess that is the price the world pays for us to be a #1 superpower, a world police force, most industrialized country, the highest mix of free religion, the largest mix of nationalities and race, highest and first rate opportunities for all rich or poor, and the most freedom of all other counties.. So maybe being #1 has a price we are willing to pay and keep paying. :AR15firin

You don't get all the above you mentioned for "nutin honey"

You forgot #1 biggest ego.

World police force: police for who? For your own good or for the good of others/oppressed?

Most industrialized country: at what price to the environment we ALL live in?

Highest mix of free religion: yet, religious fanatics drive evolution out of schools for creationism/intelligent design

You forgot some other #1s (or close seconds):

Biggest span between richest and poorest

Near to the biggest percentage of the population in jail (after Russia)

One of the last industrialized country to still have the death penalty

And many others I didn't research because I have other things to do with my time.

What's the deal with being #1 anyway? Do you have anything to prove to anyone? Life is not a competition to be #1.

[Dr D]

I do work for a living, I wonder where that argument comes from? You pull a trailer for work, good then. Do you need a truck when not working? A midget mobile with good snow tires is good enough for the blizzards we get up here in Canada (i.e. 1 foot of snow overnight). You are quite misinformed about electric motors. Electric motors are so powerful that if you had one in your truck, you would say "OMFG there is so much torque in there!" Electric motors are so powerful they are used in applications where a gas or diesel engine will not do the work, like in trains. The problem is storing electricity to power the motor for a while.

I read that study (not just the results) and I found it quite biased. They made several false assumptions. The winners of the study is still compact and intermediate cars with big production like... the Mazda Protegé, which I drive.

I never drove an AWD car and never had issues with front wheel drive only. I can tell you one thing though: all cars have AWB: All Wheel Brakes and brakes are as important, if not more, than traction. I agree that not everyone lives in the city, but don't argue like everyone needs a truck to get around; people who chose to live in the city (or near it) don't need one.

I was only insinuating that there is a difference between rural and city living and working. I think its ridiculous to drive a monster SUV in the city unless you have personally sired a baseball team. At the same time its ridiculous to drive a small 2 wheel drive car in the rocky mountain region in february. (perhaps metro Denver aside)

I am a doctor why would I need a truck? Well we haul our own trash to the dumpsite, we do our own moving, we own horses, we have 4wheelers (that are used more for work than play) we pull 2 wheel drive cars with california and wlsewhere plates out of the ditch, We don't commute in the sense that you do but many of us live 20+ miles out of town. We drive through wildlife corridors that will get you killed in small vehicles. we dodge Chip trucks and log trucks and tankers etc. small vehicles aren't smart here. many do drive them and ride bikes etc. but that is their choice. Not unlike the motorcyclist that chooses not to wear a helmet. Its his choice. It may be stupid but its still his choice. the point is don't make assumptions for a whole country based on your experience and desire. It may not aplly elsewhere.

for what its worth I have been looking at some of the mini trucks imported from japan. 50+ mpg. the only problem is that they aren't DOT approved for road use here. The free market will adjust to gas prices and environmental concerns if you get the govmt out of the way.

yes of course electric motors are very powerful but you still can't get one in a car that is adequate. at least not any further than the end of the cord:D

[skategoat]

I guess that is the price the world pays for us to be a #1 superpower, a world police force, most industrialized country, the highest mix of free religion, the largest mix of nationalities and race, highest and first rate opportunities for all rich or poor, and the most freedom of all other counties.. So maybe being #1 has a price we are willing to pay and keep paying. :AR15firin

You don't get all the above you mentioned for "nutin honey"

Sign me a proud veteran of a foreign war fighting for other peoples freedom & paid for by American work force!

You mean it takes GAS to be FREE? That's hilarious.

[C5 Golfer]

You forgot some other #1s (or close seconds):

Biggest span between richest and poorest

Near to the biggest percentage of the population in jail (after Russia)

One of the last industrialized country to still have the death penalty

.

Discussion is wonderful - we see things different which is also wonderful.

You are in Canada which is a great country and thanks for being our neighbor. If I remember correctly Canadians have a population 1/10th of the USA, if you were to take the amount of gas used in your country and multiply it by 10 I think you find you guys not too far behind us in Gasoline consumption.

Find any country with a diverse ethnic population and huge spread of haves and have-nots you will find a large percentage of jail population.. I wish it were higher after talking with many policemen that keep arresting the same guys weekend after weekend. Thank god we have three strikes and you are out!!!!! I'd have to say if crime did not pay we would not have any. Example here in WA state we used to have on the books a teenager would have to be caught stealing an automobile 7 times before he was punished, recently changed to 3 offenses -- WTF is it not one offense?

RE: death penalty - I wish it would change too but the opposite direction - get it done Pilgrim!!! Then we would not have very many on death row. Yea Yea you want to forgive them and keep them in prison @ $100K a year or let them out after 10 years, Not me. Murderers deserve only one thing.

Regarding most industrialized: We have the highest number of ski resorts, highest number of national parks, highest number recreational fishery, highest number of auto racing venues, highest number sport spectators, highest number of citizens that elect to sleep in a tent for vacation, highest number of hobbies, WTF do you expect - the above for free - no fuel spent???

[skatha]

There's no seconds for us and our percentage of people incarcerated-we lead the world. You can thank our mandatory minimums for drug offenses for that.

We are the only country in the industrialized world to not offer universal health coverage-much to the detriment to the industries still here, like the auto industry, where employer provided health insurance is, essentially, a business tax.

We obviously have no interest in policing the world because, if that were so, our country wouldn't avoid action in Africa, but, then again, there's no oil there.

A had a conversation with one of the plastic surgeons on staff just yesterday, talking about the declining influence of the US on world affairs. He had us as completely irrelevant in 15 years-I gave us 50.....

Oh, I'm also a military veteran, so don't accuse me of hating the US-I raised my hand and took the oath...

[C5 Golfer]

You mean it takes GAS to be FREE? That's hilarious.

Skategoat - I see you are also in Canada -- thanks for your country's support in Iraq BTW.

I mean that sincerely.

I do not like the war and wish we were not there but here is a fact to answer you silly and ludicrous statement. For each military man serving in Iraq it costs the world 9 gallons of fuel each day that he is there so YES it does take gas to be free. But wait – I hear your comment back already but before you voice it to the world tell me why Canada is there in Iraq.

[boarderboy]

or laugh, sneer, scoff, worry, or just plain flip out.

But if Lovelock is even half right, the best possible thing we can do for our kids is instill some very fundamental survival skills - and I don't mean Wall Street shark tank survival skills.

It's here:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/16956300/the_prophet_of_climate_change_james_lovelock/4

[skategoat]

Skategoat - I see you are also in Canada -- thanks for your country's support in Iraq BTW.

I mean that sincerely.

I do not like the war and wish we were not there but here is a fact to answer you silly and ludicrous statement. For each military man serving in Iraq it costs the world 9 gallons of fuel each day that he is there so YES it does take gas to be free. But wait – I hear your comment back already but before you voice it to the world tell me why Canada is there in Iraq.

C5, I am flabbergasted by this post.

Surely, you are not so misinformed to believe that Canada supported the invasion and occupation of Iraq? Perhaps you are confusing us with the Solomon Islands?

And what leads you to believe that the occupation of Iraq has anything at all to do with freedom?

[pebu]

I'm not gonna say much, but I just wanted to show my support of C5 and Dr D.

As for hybrids/electric vehicles... Mine cadmium in canada, ship it to china to make batteries, then ship it back to canada to stick them in cars... Yeah, that makes sense. Not to mention driving around with a ton of batteries - of any sort... Seems like an environmental risk to me. I don't know how they got around that.

We need more taxes like I need another hole in my head. Besides, they already tax fuel burners. It's called the road tax. It's that extra .9 cents for every gallon you buy. Then the licensing fees and all that jazz. Nothing like getting taxed multiple times on the same dollar.

[C5 Golfer]

C5, I am flabbergasted by this post.

Surely, you are not so misinformed to believe that Canada supported the invasion and occupation of Iraq? Perhaps you are confusing us with the Solomon Islands?

And what leads you to believe that the occupation of Iraq has anything at all to do with freedom?

As I am flabergasted by your response- You did not answer my question which did not surprise me. I will ask again.."Tell me why did Canada join us in Iraq?"' Or am I wrong in assuming -- did you not know you guys were there too????

[Jack M]

What is the point of this thread?

Creating enemies? Spreading animosity amongst our fellow carvers? Turning people away from this site? Keeping US/Canada friendliness in check?

Nice job.

[skategoat]

As I am flabergasted by your response- You did not answer my question which did not surprise me. I will ask again.."Tell me why did Canada join us in Iraq?"' Or am I wrong in assuming -- did you not know you guys were there too????

Umm...Canada did not take part in the Iraq invasion and does not have any troops there taking part in the occupation.

Oh wait, are you referring to the 20 Canadian attack beavers that took part in that raid on Saddam's swimming pool back in 2006? Boy, we really struck a blow for liberty that day, didn't we? Really chewed up them evil-doers.

[skategoat]

What is the point of this thread?

Creating enemies? Spreading animosity amongst our fellow carvers? Turning people away from this site? Keeping US/Canada friendliness in check?

Nice job.

He started it. :D

[C5 Golfer]

Umm...Canada did not take part in the Iraq invasion and does not have any troops there taking part in the occupation.

Oh wait, are you referring to the 20 Canadian attack beavers that took part in that raid on Saddam's swimming pool back in 2006? Boy, we really struck a blow for liberty that day, didn't we? Really chewed up them evil-doers.

Well Skategoat I apologize – I thought our neighbor to the north was still there in the middle east – Afghanistan and Iraq fighting to suppress al-Qaida and the Taliban.. sorry for my misunderstanding. And I guess I was wrong also in thinking al-Qaida and the Taliban are for freedom. Damn.. maybe I was reading between the lines of what "being there" and "support" meant.

[C5 Golfer]

What is the point of this thread?

Creating enemies? Spreading animosity amongst our fellow carvers? Turning people away from this site? Keeping US/Canada friendliness in check?

Nice job.

I just apologized to Skategoat!

[skategoat]

I just apologized to Skategoat!

I love you too. Let's go fishing sometime.

[C5 Golfer]

I love you too. Let's go fishing sometime.

Ok - as long as we only talk about fishin and women

[Petrol]

or laugh, sneer, scoff, worry, or just plain flip out.

But if Lovelock is even half right, the best possible thing we can do for our kids is instill some very fundamental survival skills - and I don't mean Wall Street shark tank survival skills.

It's here:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/16956300/the_prophet_of_climate_change_james_lovelock/4

lovelock is preying on and instilling fear in sheep in order to gain wealth and/or power...

as are the vast majority of the "man-made" global-warming crowd

[Derf]

Discussion is wonderful - we see things different which is also wonderful.

You are in Canada which is a great country and thanks for being our neighbor. If I remember correctly Canadians have a population 1/10th of the USA, if you were to take the amount of gas used in your country and multiply it by 10 I think you find you guys not too far behind us in Gasoline consumption.

Yes, we are not holier than thou. I think Canadians even consume more electricity than the Americans because of the price and availability. We generate more light pollution per city than you do because of the cheap electricity.

But within Canada, opinions vary a lot between BC, central provinces, Ontario, Québec and the eastern provinces. I can speak for Québec: people here are more pro-environment in opinions than the central provinces, but sometimes are not as good in actions than in words.

As for me, I act like I speak: I try to have a small environment footprint, I have a car, but drive it less than 8000km per year, I bike 3000+km per year, I live in the city. I just got a job out of town, but I hope to be transfered downtown some day.

[boarderboy]

More (muscle) power to you.

As our early morning skies lighten, I'm trying to get back into cycling at least half way (2.5 mi) to my son's school several mornings per week.

It's positive behavior mod for the hellion, and pleasant fitness training for me.

Or is it the other way around... ?

cheers!

[Dr D]

What is the point of this thread?

Creating enemies? Spreading animosity amongst our fellow carvers? Turning people away from this site? Keeping US/Canada friendliness in check?

Nice job.

ever see a family that didn't fight? just stay out of it or I will tell Dad on you:D

I live fifty miles forom the border so some days its like Canadia right here in montana. We just luv em they are so quaint:ices_ange

seriously though nuthin wrong with civil disagreement. A good discussion often breeds consensus and a better insight into your fellow man. There is after all no reality but your own.

[Dr D]

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democratic supporter, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words, redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican supporter, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father.

He responded by asking how she was doing in school. Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 Grade Point Average, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened then asked, 'How is your friend Audrey doing?' She replied, 'Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 Grade Point Average. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she'stoo hung over.'

Her father asked her, 'Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your Grade Point Average and give it to your friend Audrey, who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 Grade Point Average and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of Grade Point Averages.

'The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, 'That's a crazy idea. How would that be fair? I've worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work. Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!'

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, 'Welcome to the Republican Party.';)

I really know very little of Canadian politics and other than some very surface oriented philisophical ideas I wouldn't think myself competent to comment on them. I always find it interesting how much heat is drawn from those non US persons on the board whenever a discussion arises concerning american politics. We all see the world through our own filters and it is almost silly to argue a point outside our own experience.

My .02

(for the record I am not a republican I am an independant leaning toward a blend of libertarian/constitutionalist )

not a big fan of the BUSH

[C5 Golfer]

Good one Dr. D

Good story on the Grades and the Republican party - I may use that in a upcoming golf game - if my competitor is beating me I'll ask him to transfer some of his birdies.:lol:

[skategoat]

I really know very little of Canadian politics and other than some very surface oriented philisophical ideas I wouldn't think myself competent to comment on them. I always find it interesting how much heat is drawn from those non US persons on the board whenever a discussion arises concerning american politics. We all see the world through our own filters and it is almost silly to argue a point outside our own experience.

Come on D, Canadians aren't the only ones who have trouble with America's foreign policy, medicare, gun laws, etc. You make it sound as if all Americans are united on these issues.

I think Canadians tend to comment because we are bombarded with US media coverage and we have the advantage of a bit of distanced perspective.

Also, USA bashing is a national sport here. Ric Mercer has even made a career out of it.

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