Poach, poach, poach, and poach again!

[philw]

I think it's an American thing, so perhaps I can't really understand the issue. From a Euro perspective it's weird... ok, we have wars about German royals falling out, but the ski/ snowboard thing just never happened that way here.

A few years ago TWS or someone did an article on poaching in Park City or somewhere. Still, I enjoyed the new video.... there are echoes of Regis Roland (who now skis) in the concept.

I think the skiers they were cutting up were part of the deal - look closely at what they're wearing and how they react. I don't know about US law, but in the UK the bouncers would have the right to remove you by force if you otherwise declined, but if they manhandled you first that would be assault.

I was disappointed that the Taos crew came down the beginner road rather than through the moguls, even if they were in crappy condition. I don't care if softie snowboarders wear fluro (again), but if you're going to poach Taos then you need to straight line that mogul field and show them how it's done.

[spil]

So MRG so far as I can tell is the biggest offender of the negative and outdated steroetypes about snowboarders.

Not really (at least in my opinion). They were the only ones that allowed snowboarding in their past, so they are not using outdated steriotypes. According to this, the reason they originally banned snowboarding was because it was unsafe for riders to use their unique single chair. Then, when the co-op gained ownership of the mountain, they voted not to allow snowboarders, because it would ruin the historic ambiance of the ski area. Going to MRG would be like going to any ski area before the 1970's. No snowboarders, no snowmaking, no grooming, and no highspeed quads. I think of it like a museum that you can participate in.

It's not a business decision about offering an alternative to individuals who want a skiers-only resort.

Yes and no. They don't allow riders because they want to keep the ambiance of the "good old days". How people view it can be different. Some skiers at MRG may choose it because of its lack of snowboarders, while others may choose to ski their because of its more laid back, natural terrain.

They genuinely believe that snowboards ruin the snow for skiers.

"They" (meaning the co-op) do not believe that, and it is not an official reason for MRG to not allow snowboarders. "They" (meaning some of the people that choose to ski at MRG) might decide to ski at MRG because "they" think that snowboarders ruin the terrain. In the context you used it, it seems that you were talking about the co-op as one of their reasons to not allow snowboarders. Technically this is not true.

Otherwise I think it's worth trying a half day lift at Taos on a full on alpine setup with poles. I think they'll be confused enough. The only problem I can see is if I remove my back foot to get on/off lifts they'll know it's a snowboard. Getting on/off a lift on a alpine setup with 50+ deg angles will be very uncomfortable to say the least (not to mention sketchy).[/Quote]

I think Taos' official stance is that you have to be on SKIS, not a monoski or anything else. You might be able to get away with a skiboard on one foot and a skwal on the other and just say that you have a "back problem" or something.

My only complaint would be all the traversing getting to runs-especially on the front side.

YES. They should just install a high-speed magic carpet on the side of all those catwalks...:rolleyes:

[Hugh]

Alpine Meadows is the only ski resort in the Tahoe area that I get stink eye every time I share the lift with someone over 35 years of age, especially the over 50 crowd - they won't even look at me.

Randy is the Alpine Snowboard celebrity, everyone likes him and talks to him, but for the rest of us it is a different story.

As far as skier only mtn's, just put on a pair of skis and lay down some carves. Bend them like they were designed. It only took 100+ years for snowboarding to come along and improve and modernize ski design, they owe us.

--Hugh

[carvedog]

These resorts have EVERY right to limit who has access to their mountain .......

NOT theirs. Ours. They only have license to operate a commercial enterprise on our land. Since us dirtbag snowboarders are part of we and ours, we have every right to be there. If the rules of their operation say they won't sell tickets to snowboarders ( which should be illegal ) that is their current right. To deny access wether on foot, snowboard, snowshoe is against the law and should not be condoned.

Just as my friend who poached a chair ride could not arrested for trespassing, but for theft of lift services, to try to stop someone from their choice of transport of public land is against every federal law granting equal access to public land.

If it takes a stupid video stunt by Burton to expose the hipocracy and stupidity of these folks, then I am all for it.

And I will +3 what Tex said about those ****ing ski patrol sh!ts in Taos. So unnecasary. They act like someone was breaking the law about how you slide down the hill. Idiocy. If it wouldn't hurt the farmers and other folks who need the water down there, I would wish them a drought and a pox upon their head.

[carvedog]

A few years ago TWS or someone did an article on poaching in Park City or somewhere. Still, I enjoyed the new video....

I don't know about US law, but in the UK the bouncers would have the right to remove you by force if you otherwise declined, but if they manhandled you first that would be assault.

Phil,

The law you are speaking about would apply to private property. There is no precedent for ski patrol to tackle and remove someone from PUBLIC land who has done nothing more than be there on different equipment than the folks they wish to sell their lift tickets to. So it should be assault.

And the reason we need to be diligent and pursue some of these things, is that ( unless I hallucinated the whole thing) Park City did not allow snowboarding until the 2000 Olympics were in UT. Some dip thong in the "awarding" of venues dept. of the IOC or the Olympic bid committee gave it to Park City. This was around '98. There was quite an uproar about a non-snowboarding area being given the snowboard GS. Park City didn't want the heat anymore for all the hub bub and opened the area to snowboards that same year or the next.

The dates may be wrong and the names have been changed to protect the guilty.

[wavechaser]

No offense, but you may have watched "First Descent" way too many times. Jake is not the end-all-be-all of snowboarding, in fact he was just along for the ride during a time when Tom Sims, Domitre Milovich(sp? ie winterstick) and Chuck Barfoot were the early pioneers.

Yeah, you're right...I'm new to all this snowboarding stuff. I only just got into it in 1979 (Sims board). I guess Jake didn't do anything for this sport...just rode on other people's coat tails. No promotion or marketing savvy at all.

Never seen "First Descent".

[Gecko]

Yeah, you're right...I'm new to all this snowboarding stuff. I only just got into it in 1979 (Sims board). I guess Jake didn't do anything for this sport...just rode on other people's coat tails. No promotion or marketing savvy at all.

Never seen "First Descent".

never been a Jake fan but he did have the money (backing) when noone else did, which meant that though he was about a year behind Sims, Winterstick, Barfoot, GNU and even Flite with updating his product line, he still had more boards out there that the others....and where are those others now? No one but GNU and Jake is still involved in building the boards from the 70's-80s. Jake is still here after the boom in the 90's brought us 100 Socal snowboard companies nearly all of which have been bought up or gone bankrupt. Yes he controversially bought some patents but I've never heard that he billed people for them. Jake has always been the Powell/Peralta, Honda motorcycles, name your big-brand, that everyone can hate but with a few exceptions they also put out a pretty good product. The thing is Jake was the flag that people rallied around in the late 80's when snowboard certification was a requirement, he was there pushing for places to open up just in the fact that he was putting more boards out there than anyone else...never mind that he was actually giving to snowboarding more than most of the other manufacturers...As much as I hate to agree with Rick's (wavechaser) statement if it wasn't for Jake snowboarding would not be where it is today. OK that hurt....I mean that really hurt to say....it hurt as much or more than my recently smashed (in the skatepark) knee hurts right now and that's a lot.

[wavechaser]

As much as I hate to agree with Rick's (wavechaser) statement if it wasn't for Jake snowboarding would not be where it is today. OK that hurt....I mean that really hurt to say....it hurt as much or more than my recently smashed (in the skatepark) knee hurts right now and that's a lot.

TP - as much as I hate to cause a fellow skater/rider pain, I gotta say I had a good laugh out of your pain! What you said is exactly what I am talking about. I'm no Burton butt boy, but I never really understood the anti-Burton crew either. Or the Microsoft haters. As you and I well know though, some people just aren't comfortable with other's sucess - be they individuals, businesses, or nations.

[Gecko]

TP - as much as I hate to cause a fellow skater/rider pain, I gotta say I had a good laugh out of your pain! What you said is exactly what I am talking about. I'm no Burton butt boy, but I never really understood the anti-Burton crew either. Or the Microsoft haters. As you and I well know though, some people just aren't comfortable with other's sucess - be they individuals, businesses, or nations.

The skateboard pain was because I just couldn't wait for the park to be finished on tuesday/wednesday so I threw on a set of soft kneepads (instead of my usual PD's) and went to try out the pocket wall and volcano. I had a new board, wheels, a dusty park and it's fricken COLD....not a good combo though I love the new setup...one fall and I was done...motrin, redwine and heating pad are helping. As for Burton, I will probably never own one of his boards (I say probably because I said NEVER about Tracker Trucks +15 years ago and the Fastracks are gonna make a liar outta me) but I can respect both the impact and the contribution he has made to the sport.

[D-Sub]

all I can say is that intro is the stupidest thing I've ever ****ing seen.

[wavechaser]

The skateboard pain was because I just couldn't wait for the park to be finished on tuesday/wednesday so I threw on a set of soft kneepads (instead of my usual PD's) and went to try out the pocket wall and volcano. I had a new board, wheels, a dusty park and it's fricken COLD....not a good combo though I love the new setup...one fall and I was done...motrin, redwine and heating pad are helping. As for Burton, I will probably never own one of his boards (I say probably because I said NEVER about Tracker Trucks +15 years ago and the Fastracks are gonna make a liar outta me) but I can respect both the impact and the contribution he has made to the sport.

Just to clarify - I got a laugh out of the pain of your Burton statement, not your skate crash! I do own a Burton board but only because I had a chance a while back to get a custom 21cm waist race stock GS 185 made for Klug...and it IS a sweet ride. I was sort of an Avalanche guy back when the Sanders were still running it, but I'll ride any board if it performs like I want - much like the reason you like the Fastracks I'm guessing. Can't wait to start chasing the sticks again - just hope I don't pump the arms wildly after skating slalom so much over the summer!

[D-Sub]

I came along way too late. Those girls are idiots.

[Fastskiguy]

We could try to go to Taos and say we go there because there are no snowboarders and we don't like them either!:p;)

That's the best idea I've heard yet!

[Gecko]

Just to clarify - I got a laugh out of the pain of your Burton statement, not your skate crash! I do own a Burton board but only because I had a chance a while back to get a custom 21cm waist race stock GS 185 made for Klug...and it IS a sweet ride. I was sort of an Avalanche guy back when the Sanders were still running it, but I'll ride any board if it performs like I want - much like the reason you like the Fastracks I'm guessing. Can't wait to start chasing the sticks again - just hope I don't pump the arms wildly after skating slalom so much over the summer!

Oh I know you weren't laughing at my pain, no old(er) skater would do that I was just explaining the why of the pain. I would ride a Burton if they made board like the Axxes167/AM169 so yes I do understand (I know at pne point they did make a board like those but they don't any more). I rode Flites because they were here. And the Fastracks are really neat with the fattest bushings you have ever seen (Stim III's), the idea of loose fast trucks that are stable appeals to me and if they don't work on my drop through I'll just have to find a board that they will work on (which I'm sure won't bother Andrew much). I wouldn't worry about pumping you arms unless you can throw 4 turns in 18feet on snow

[wavechaser]

...the Fastracks are really neat with the fattest bushings you have ever seen (Stim III's), the idea of loose fast trucks that are stable appeals to me and if they don't work on my drop through I'll just have to find a board that they will work on (which I'm sure won't bother Andrew much).

I havent seen the fastracks yet - I'll have to check them out.

I wouldn't worry about pumping you arms unless you can throw 4 turns in 18feet on snow

On my Hot 160 SL board I probably can!

[Fastskiguy]

I came along way too late. Those girls are idiots.

I cringed when they disrespected Stein!

[paragonUE]

I would ride a Burton if they made board like the Axxes167/AM169 so yes I do understand (I know at pne point they did make a board like those but they don't any more).

ummmm

https://www.klugriding.com/product-view-0s-2c-18i.html

i ride one. its quite spiffy if i do say so myself

[wavechaser]

I cringed when they disrespected Stein!

BD - izzat u? (skeezrule?)

[Fastskiguy]

BD - izzat u? (skeezrule?)

Nope, I'm JF.

[Steve Dold]

NOT theirs. Ours. They only have license to operate a commercial enterprise on our land. Since us dirtbag snowboarders are part of we and ours, we have every right to be there.

Does this mean there is nothing illegal about leaving the resort and riding out of bounds on USFS land?

[willywhit]

didn't Jake intern on wall street before succumbing to the urge to take snowboarding mainstream ? that takes ALOT of balls, imho.Make tons of cash or move to VT to start a snowboarding company.If you ever went to the original store in Manchester, it was far from corporate.Do ya think the Hayes Bros will ever get as far as Jake has....I doubt it.As much as I loath how Burton ran thier game with ski shops and trying to dominate the market, ya gotta admit...it's a damn good and well run organization.

if you know the story behind Alex and Best kiteboarding, kinda similiar. Go for the throat and dominate the market. it's called american capitalism, get used to it.

first snow tonight....I AM STOKED.....to snap on my Burton raceplates :rolleyes:

I mean my TDs.

[JJFluff]

I ride burton, and think this is one of the most idiotic things I have ever seen. How embarrassing.

If you don't think this is the wrong way to go about changing things.

Grow up.

[wavechaser]

Wavechaser:

The fasttracks should be released soon. I have been riding them for a while now, they are sure sweet. I only wish the bushings have a little more rebound. You've got to give it to Tracker, they are still made in the US and their axles don't bend and their baseplate don't break like indys and you can still hide your nuts for really clean grind.

Sorry for the thread jack.

Bola - it's my thread and I give you permission to hijack all you want - especially if it's about skating! Happy Holidays to you and COSS crew! Thanks for the info.

-Rick

[carvedog]

Does this mean there is nothing illegal about leaving the resort and riding out of bounds on USFS land?

In Idaho this is true. Except in areas where skier triggered avalanches could impact inbounds ski areas, that is covered under their permit as an area that they can control access to even though it is not part of their area of operation.

They can also close, to everyone not just one sliding group, access to the mountain during avalanche control mornings due to the safety aspect.

Colorado has enacted some state laws that have to do with the way you can egress a ski area into public lands, I think it is Co. specific and I can't comment on that.

[wavechaser]

I ride burton, and think this is one of the most idiotic things I have ever seen. How embarrassing.

If you don't think this is the wrong way to go about changing things.

Grow up.

It ain't about changing things my friend - that isn't going to happen. Yeah, it's stupid and sophomoric, but so are a LOT of fun things! It's marketing, it's cash for those with the inkling to take them up on it, and it's a reminder to the "big four" that their policies are just as stupid. I've noticed that people who live in the areas where they are shut out are much more tuned in to what an absurd policy it is to prevent snowboarders - and it is maddening too. Here in the Mad River Valley I have to look up every day at those sweet glades and cliffs I used to hit and wish I could do it again on my board. Add in the pervasive elitist attitude around here due to the policy and yeah, it rubs me the wrong way. A one day one ride poach is really nothing in the big scheme of things - the MRG locals here think it's kind of amusing actually. It's really only the oldy moldy old-timers who keep the ban in place here...the 50 and under generation really isn't so harsh for the most part. Heck, one of the mountain managers at MRG is a snowboarder. In talking to these folks the last 17 years or so I find that those with the attitude WILL NOT CHANGE NO MATTER WHAT, and those who really don't feel so strongly about the ban aren't swayed negatively by a stunt like this. IMO people are taking this WAY too seriously. But that's just me.