Some questions about buying first alpine setup

[Wun]

-Part 1-

Hello world. This will hopefully be my first season dipping into slope-bombing. I'm pretty close to buying a new board, and have a couple questions.

1) When buying cant/lift plates, are they universal, or do they only work with specific binding models?

2) On the Intec heel assembly parts page, I see an option to buy the assembly parts, and another option to buy cables. What exactly are the cables for? Are they a specific part of the heel that already comes included with the assembly parts? Must they be purchased, and if yes, must they be purchased separately? etc...

-Part 2-

Question about cants and lifts. First off, it is my understanding that cants refer to raising the left and right sides of the feet, and lifts refer to raising the toes or heels of the feet. If this is incorrect, could someone please clarify it for me? If it is correct, onto the question: Is it typical (key word, typical, not strictly imperative) for cants and lifts to be in one direction? Or will they go both ways? For example, is it typical that the left sides of each feet be raised for cant (goofy stance), and heels be raised for lift? I see many sites say that typical starting cants are 0 or 3 degrees in front, and 3 in back. But they don't specifically say if it's a forward lean or back. Though it's a silly question, I would assume it's forward and would like to make sure I don't have a misconception over it.

Edit: So I found the Cant and Lift article that I missed before this point, and see that there is a common setup to lift the front foot's toes and back foot's heel, and the basis for it is explained as well. Looks like cants often go "outward", meaning a lift on the right side of the foot (goofy stance), correct? Can someone confirm that for me?

*About my questions in parts 1 and 2: I've spent so much time reading what I have come across so far, and there's so many links on many different resources that I haven't quite found straight-up answers to these questions. If you would like to provide me links to pages that have answers to the above questions rather than explaining, that will work, as I am up for more reading!

-Part 3-

I would also like input and advice on pieces I am looking at, if anyone is willing to help. I am about a centimeter or two under 160 in height, weigh about 125 pounds (~57 kilograms according to JS conversions), and have a very slim and skinny body physique (i.e. tiny asian guy). Foot size is 23 or 24 mondo (extremely high in 23 where sometimes it will measure 24, as I can't determine which is the perfect method to measure with a ruler), US size 8. Here is what I've come across online so far:

-151 F2 Speedster SL

-154 same deck, about 60 bucks more USD

-F2 Race Titanium Intec-style

Haven't looked into boots yet.

Though I will be hoping to just start out this year, I have been uncontrollably daydreaming about diving into the alpine discipline for the past couple years. I consider myself very adept in recreational freeride, and these days feel topped off in carving ability by lack of stability in my current freeride deck with soft boots. The bindings and boots on this setup are relatively new, and the deck is a recent hand-me-down; seeing myself using this gear much longer, I am looking more into purchasing a freecarve rather than an all-mountain board. Also, Intec boots 'n' bindings are pretty appealing!

I am not concerned about any specific needs in alpine boarding like racing/slalom, but just want to progress in carving recreationally on public slopes. Preferred method of gear purchase is via online retailers or from people willing to sell items in person near my area, whom I can visit and take a look before deciding to purchase.

Regarding Part 3, the type of responses I'm hoping to find the most are whether the listed gear is workable for a new alpine boarder (I think I can handle steep learning curves if I will encounter any), if the heights are appropriate, and if they are compatible with my body type, or if I should be looking into buying a completely different model.

[tex1230]

-Part 1-

Hello world. This will hopefully be my first season dipping into slope-bombing. I'm pretty close to buying a new board, and have a couple questions.

1) When buying cant/lift plates, are they universal, or do they only work with specific binding models?

cant and lift plates are specific to each binding model. they are generally not interchangeable.

2) On the Intec heel assembly parts page, I see an option to buy the assembly parts, and another option to buy cables. What exactly are the cables for? Are they a specific part of the heel that already comes included with the assembly parts? Must they be purchased, and if yes, must they be purchased separately? etc...

those are replacement cables. the heel assemblies come with cables.

-Part 2-

Question about cants and lifts. First off, it is my understanding that cants refer to raising the left and right sides of the feet, and lifts refer to raising the toes or heels of the feet. If this is incorrect, could someone please clarify it for me? If it is correct, onto the question: Is it typical (key word, typical, not strictly imperative) for cants and lifts to be in one direction? Or will they go both ways? For example, is it typical that the left sides of each feet be raised for cant (goofy stance), and heels be raised for lift? I see many sites say that typical starting cants are 0 or 3 degrees in front, and 3 in back. But they don't specifically say if it's a forward lean or back. Though it's a silly question, I would assume it's forward and would like to make sure I don't have a misconception over it.

Edit: So I found the Cant and Lift article that I missed before this point, and see that there is a common setup to lift the front foot's toes and back foot's heel, and the basis for it is explained as well. Looks like cants often go "outward", meaning a lift on the right side of the foot (goofy stance), correct? Can someone confirm that for me?

cants should angle toward the center of the board. the front binding should be canted toward the rear of the board and the rear binding should be canted toward the front. Most people who use toe and heel lift will lift the toe of the front foot and the heel of the rear (although I know of people who use toe lift on both feet)

-Part 3-

I would also like input and advice on pieces I am looking at, if anyone is willing to help. I am about a centimeter or two under 160 in height, weigh about 125 pounds (~57 kilograms according to JS conversions), and have a very slim and skinny body physique (i.e. tiny asian guy). Foot size is 23 or 24 mondo (extremely high in 23 where sometimes it will measure 24, as I can't determine which is the perfect method to measure with a ruler), US size 8. Here is what I've come across online so far:

-151 F2 Speedster SL

-154 same deck, about 60 bucks more USD

-F2 Race Titanium Intec-style

Haven't looked into boots yet.

Boots should be the first thing you get. make sure you have them fitted properly.

I think those boards are fine, but very turny. I'd start with an all mountain deck like a donek axxess or a coiler AM, both of which will give a more stable platform to a new carver.

someone else can answer the intec questions, as I don't use intec. I have always heard the interface was stiffer then standard bindings, and as a new carver you probably want fore forgiveness in your setup.

enjoy the ride!

[alexgforce]

Welcome to the world of alpine snowboarding. As you progress you will find that this type of riding is very demanding in terms of technique and discipline. It is however very rewarding when you start railing and linking your turns.

The cables that you are refering to are allowing you to release the binding. Each heel of the boot have 2 pins protruding from each side (intec). This pins are attaching the boot to the binding. The cable is attached to the pins, goes inside the boot and come up on top of it where it can be pulled. By pulling the cable the pins retract and the boot is release.

In terms of boots I recommend Deeluxe Suzuka. It is not as stiff as the indy and feels comfortable.

The usage of cants is up to the rider. I prefer to ride with no cant at all. I have a better feeling of the edge during a turn. If you decide to use a cant I recommend only on the rear binding. One of the best bindings to start with is the old Burton race plate which comes with 1 cant disk at 7 degrees (if I remember correctly). Burton has stopped manufacturing this binding but I am prety sure you can find it used. If not try the IBEX binding which is practicaly the same (Ibex has bought the molds from Burton and currently manufactures them). These bindings are relatively soft but are still popular even amongst proffesional racers.

In terms of board go soft-er. Donek axis is a good choice or anything custom that you can adjust to your dimension and weight. Have in mind that you will end up with more than one boards so try as many boards as you can.

The best way is to show up at the SES (Summit Expression Session) where you can try equipment, talk to people but most important see a lot of riders in action and decide wich way you want to go in terms of riding style and technique.

HAVE FUN!!!

[pebu]

http://www.alpinecarving.com/bindings.html

The third picture in this article shows the intec heel and cable and has a pretty good description of it. That alpinecarving site in general has pretty good info on the hardware related to carving.

[Guest]

cants should angle toward the center of the board. the front binding should be canted toward the rear of the board and the rear binding should be canted toward the front. Most people who use toe and heel lift will lift the toe of the front foot and the heel of the rear (although I know of people who use toe lift on both feet)

Whoa now. Crazy misinformation to a newcomer.

Canting is a very personal preference. Start out with no cant whatsoever, then play around once you're comfortable with your setup. I personally use outward cant (away from the middle of the board) and it works well for my physique. I'm a short guy myself, and I'm slightly bow-legged as well. It makes snowboarding a lot easier for me.

There is no should or must in Alpine Snowboarding. Nearly everything is personal preference, so the guidelines given here should be followed in the manner that is the most comfortable for you.

[trailertrash]

I personally use outward cant (away from the middle of the board) and it works well for my physique. I'm a short guy myself, and I'm slightly bow-legged as well.

same here, if i use inward cant it seems to hurt the outside shin muscles just up from the ankle.

[Wun]

Thank you all for your replies. It is very much appreciated.

Whoa now. Crazy misinformation to a newcomer.

Well, I just took it with a grain of salt, assuming that he/she means that it is a common setup, and by no means the best or necessary. That is what I am after, to be honest, so that I can start with something ordinary, and any random alpine boarder that initiates conversation won't ask me why I'm using some kind of less-common setup. Would rather be able to say I'm new to the scene and just arbitrarily chose a popularly recommended cant setup for starters before I slowly get my feel for what type of cant angles I prefer. From articles and replies here, it looks like the choices are 3front-3rear, 0front-3rear, and no cants.

So, another question: Are those recommended starter angles inward cants? Or outwards? From tex1230's contribution, I get the vibe that they're inward.

[tex1230]

Whoa now. Crazy misinformation to a newcomer.

Canting is a very personal preference. Start out with no cant whatsoever, then play around once you're comfortable with your setup. I personally use outward cant (away from the middle of the board) and it works well for my physique. I'm a short guy myself, and I'm slightly bow-legged as well. It makes snowboarding a lot easier for me.

There is no should or must in Alpine Snowboarding. Nearly everything is personal preference, so the guidelines given here should be followed in the manner that is the most comfortable for you.

Wow...sorry if I offended.

IF you are going to use canting, MOST people cant inward (front foot leaning back, rear foot leaning forward) - MOST but obviously not ALL

Reading the original post, the guy sounds like he has been snowboarding for a while...figured he would know if he wants canting or not.

[Terryw]

Canting and lifting are very subjective. Many of the boots even have canting adjustments on them. My Suzukas have an adjustment at the ankle for just that purpose. It is all about comfort and the ability to move freely on your board, and allow you to apply pressure to your edges.

All that being said, probably the best thing you can do is try to hook up with another experienced carver as soon as possible. I spent years ridding in a hard setup without really understanding what I was supposed to be doing. Then last year I found the Carvers Almanac.

http://www.alpinecarving.com/index.html

From there I found Bomber and the great community here. I was fortunate enough to go ridding with someone who knew what he was doing and was more than willing to help me with pointers and even loaning of equipment (Thanks oldvolvosrule!).

For equipment be sure to keep an eye on the classified section here on Bomber. This is just about the time for a lot of equipment to go up for sale.

To find other riders, check the ride boards for your area here on Bomber. I am sure you will find helpful hardbooters in your neck of the woods. It has been my experience that this community will go way out of its way to help new carvers.

Make sure you read all of the articles here on Bomber, and also check out the Carvers Almanac. That should keep you busy for a while!

[Allee]

Second Terry's advice about Carvers Almanac (www. alpinecarving.com). The best site ever for explaining all this stuff (no offence Fin and team, but Scott's site is awesome). There's some great stuff on there about binding setup.

Generally, don't get too carried away with fiddling with bindings. The whole thing is going to be so, so different from what you're used to, that your canting will be the least of your worries.

The board you want looks OK, but you'll probably find by the end of the season that you're going to be off it and onto something longer (yes - really - I started on a 156 and now ride happily on a 167). 150-ish boards tend to be slalom boards, and you grow out of them pretty quick. So I wouldn't buy new - keep an eye on the classifieds here and see if something comes up in the same range used. It might be worth it.

And Terry is spot on about hooking up with an experienced carver - save yourself a year's worth of pain and hassle. Otherwise you could stumble around all season getting all frustrated and annoyed, because this is a very different proposition from bombing fakie down a hill on a freeride board. Swallow the pride and ask for help - you're in Cali and there are Bomber members there that could help.

[Wun]

you grow out of them pretty quick

If that's physically speaking... I'm a 20-year-old college student; my height doesn't really go anywhere and isn't going anywhere anytime soon as far as I can tell. Do you still suggest I go bigger if I want to avoid having to buy two alpine decks in a short amount of time?

Also, maybe I should mention that I enjoy my current, long freeride 157 deck that goes up to my forehead very much. I upgraded from a smaller deck that always gave me the feeling that I was constantly braking in a car with that passive effect of feeling like you're being pulled forward. I HATE that feeling. I definitely do not want a relapse of that on my future alpine board. Anyway, Allee, may I ask your height, and where the 156 and 167 went up to relative to your body?

[kjl]

-Part 3-

I would also like input and advice on pieces I am looking at, if anyone is willing to help. I am about a centimeter or two under 160 in height, weigh about 125 pounds (~57 kilograms according to JS conversions), and have a very slim and skinny body physique (i.e. tiny asian guy). Foot size is 23 or 24 mondo (extremely high in 23 where sometimes it will measure 24, as I can't determine which is the perfect method to measure with a ruler), US size 8. Here is what I've come across online so far:

-151 F2 Speedster SL

-154 same deck, about 60 bucks more USD

-F2 Race Titanium Intec-style

Haven't looked into boots yet.

1st - where in northern California are you? There are a bunch of us in the area to go riding with. Also, if you are going to be riding in Tahoe much, check out tahoecarvers.com, where a lot of us coordinate meeting at the mountain and such.

I'm also a "tiny Asian guy" (167 cm, 145 lbs now and rising, doh). I think you should pick up a bigger board than a 151/154 - my first carving board was a 167 Donek Axis and it was a pretty nice learning setup. I actually have a 167 Donek Axis you can use if you can pick it up from the sf bay area or want to ride with me.

Congratulations on having small feet! It means you get to ride skinny boards at lower angles!

[Guest]

No offense taken, and I didnt' mean to sound so harsh. I just didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea.

Wun- start with no canting at all. Play around with canting if something feels uncomfortable or if you feel like messing around, but don't overthink things.

[Wun]

where in northern California are you

I live in Sac, the mom's bought a condo earlier this year at south tahoe, WOOT.

I know about tahoecarvers as well, so yeah, I've been lurking that forum for a while too.

my first carving board was a 167 Donek Axis and...

OK. I'm pretty relieved everyone's saying to go bigger. Thinking about it again, I am pretty scared of getting something too short.

I actually have a 167 Donek Axis you can use if you can pick it up from the sf bay area or want to ride with me.

Holy crap! Was totally expecting to only be able to try out an alpine board by buying myself a whole one! I would definitely like to take any help you can offer. You got bindings too? Do I just need to find myself a pair of boots? Borrowing it or goin' up to ride with ya, either one works with me.

What is you and your friends' home mountain? edit: i see it now in profile: squaw! expensive stuff, man! The closest one (and, at this early point, most likely place of season pass purchase) is Heavenly, literally about a couple block's drive away from the condo.

[Wun]

start with no canting at all. Play around with canting if something feels uncomfortable or if you feel like messing around, but don't overthink things.

Will do. Thanks for the wise words.

[Sinecure]

Somebody is looking for you on Tahoecarvers.

[Wun]

Somebody is looking for you on Tahoecarvers.

And I've been looking for YOU. I think. I found some tahoe carver on myspace a long time ago who had the string "sinecure" within his url, but I refrained from trying to add or contact him, since he hadn't logged on in many months.

Okay, sorry about that. Thanks for the tip though.

[Allee]

Allee, may I ask your height, and where the 156 and 167 went up to relative to your body?

5 ft 9, 150lb and mondo 26 on the feets. Where the board comes up to on your body is irrelevant for a carving board. It's way more about what you want the board to do. If you're on a 157 freestyle board now, why would you want to go down in size for a carver?

Take kjl up on his offer pronto. If you can get someone to show you the basics on loaner gear, it will give you a way better feel for the whole thing, and you get to demo some decks before you commit to the big $$. I know the Tahoecarvers crew have quite a few decks floating around you could try.

Have fun!!

[kjl]

OK. I'm pretty relieved everyone's saying to go bigger. Thinking about it again, I am pretty scared of getting something too short.

My totally nonprofessional and newb opinion is that you end up going faster than you want when you are learning to carve, because you're not going to be committing to a turn as fast and you're not going to be leaning over and carving as hard, so some extra edge length and stability are all good things to have. Probably the easiest board I have ever ridden was James Ong's 205 custom Donek. Granted the turns it made were probably too big for a beginner, but definitely don't be afraid of length. Probably anything between 160 and 175 with a 9-11m sidecut would be fine to learn on.

Holy crap! Was totally expecting to only be able to try out an alpine board by buying myself a whole one! I would definitely like to take any help you can offer. You got bindings too? Do I just need to find myself a pair of boots? Borrowing it or goin' up to ride with ya, either one works with me.

What is you and your friends' home mountain? edit: i see it now in profile: squaw! expensive stuff, man! The closest one (and, at this early point, most likely place of season pass purchase) is Heavenly, literally about a couple block's drive away from the condo.

I do have some old TD1 bindings (which last forever anyways) you could try, in which case you would only need boots (with intec step-in heels). The south lake is out of my way, but we might be able to work out a swap in Sacramento, or the north lake if you end up up there. Squaw is nice because it is not as crowded as some of the other resorts, and I'm willing to pay more for fewer people ;). Looks like you already made contact with Randy over on the tahoecarvers site; he probably has a better selection of stuff, but if you want to try my board we can still try to swap gear sometime.

[Wun]

more about what you want the board to do

Right on, right on.

Looks like you already made contact with Randy over on the tahoecarvers site...

So yeah.. it might have thrown you out of the equation. I'd like to keep options open, but apparently I will probably be set with the help from Randy. Just have to see what happens later on, I guess. Also, Sac can easily access both 50 and 80, so any place is pretty much fair game if I ever met up.

[Allee]

I upgraded from a smaller deck that always gave me the feeling that I was constantly braking in a car with that passive effect of feeling like you're being pulled forward. I HATE that feeling.

Dude, when was the last time you waxed? And I'm not talking about your bikini line ...

[Wun]

Every time I went up.

It was pretty frustrating, but now that I've got a different deck, I'm not having that issue, so I'm happy.

[scotts.Scheinman]

Wow, i havent been here in a very long time but, here's my 2 cents.

If it is you first season on a 2x4 :-) , dont worry a whole lot about canting.

as for like a good beginers set up

F2 silberfiel( stiff enough but enough flex)

F2 toe clips

and boots are subjective.

good luck

[pebu]

Board on brakes seems like a wrong wax problem. That happened to me when I took some all season wax out in -10 degree weather.

But as for the board, my first was a 162 rossi x-vas. Seemed like a pretty good length to start. The board was a little tough to learn on, but length and sidecut it was pretty good. If I were to do it again I might go as long as a 170 or so.

Sorry, forgot my stats. I'm about 5'11" and with my gear probably 150 lbs. I have mondo 26 raichle 124s and some burton rat-traps for bindings. I ride the rossi and now I picked up and am anxious to try a 162 nitro sl board.

[Jack M]

cants should angle toward the center of the board. the front binding should be canted toward the rear of the board and the rear binding should be canted toward the front.

Not necessarily. A good place to start is with toe lift on the front foot, heel lift on the back foot, and no canting whatsoever. Try riding like this for a few runs. If you feel like your legs are fighting the boots either inward or outward, cant your bindings and/or boots to compensate.

Most people who use toe and heel lift will lift the toe of the front foot and the heel of the rear (although I know of people who use toe lift on both feet)

toe lift on both feet (or heel lift on both feet) is <i>extremely</i> rare, and frankly I can't fathom it being beneficial to anyone other than those with major league skeletal issues. In fact, I've never heard of anyone riding like this on purpose.