Bordy Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 I carve on Hard, I carve on Med, I carve on soft, I carve on skis, I carve on ski boards, I carve on teleboard, I carve on tele skis, I carve on skwal, I carve on sit ski, I carve on Turkey. I know what works best for carving, Just because you feel one is better does not mean It is. I like turkey more then skiing It taste better, and that is the taste I am looking for. Just because I like it better, I would not say It carves up just as good as some skiis. Any thing with the right shape can be carved. Every boot has its day. Iciee Crap is not the best day to pull out the softys to rail CARVED turns! Would You ride your softys on a Iciee day while all of your Hard Boot friends are waiting for you to catch up? If you do however not ride enough or train enough in the off season and your legs get a little tired from railing the hard boots then soft boots are o-kay for the rest of the day. Just think of them like training wheels. Only for Hurt little legs instead of snowboarders legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by Baka Dasai Love that picture of the heelside carve in softies. It reminded me of something. Here it is. Compare and contrast: <img src="http://www.keyssonline.com/2new-carve.jpg"> <img src="http://64.78.63.45/live/billabong/mdka03/photos/aiwaterL.jpg"> Anyway, as for the original subject of the thread, I'm sure there are some people who can carve as hard in softies as in hard boots. I'm not one of them, and it doesn't seem like many people here are either. But carving is carving - it's all good, even the skiers. But I like the comment that "nothing pisses off hardbooters more than a guy on softies outcarving them". That happened to me one day last season, and it <b>did</b> piss me off - I was humbled. <h2><bold>AWESOME!</bold></h2> gotta say Im a little disheartened with the **** talking. reminds me of when I lived in steamboat and some ******* "jibber" wanted to FIGHT ME because I was that "eurocarver fag" he always saw on the hill. and man..if I could carve like that on my heels in my soft boots...wow. time to learn some technique methinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vin Quenneville Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 I've been watching this post for the last few days and wasn't going to hop in. but I guess I will.. As long as you aren't racing.. just talking freecarving... if you know the proper techniques on carving, it doesn't matter what you ride. I've been carving on softies for years now... I haven't ridden plates for 5 years now... NO NEED!!! Stop all this stupid debating and spend your time on the hill having fun... Carving, Jibbing, Hucking or what ever brings a smile to your faces... Vin P.S. The great Gilmour looks just like I do on Softies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncermak Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by Ken D Hi... It's me, ken. I like beer. Does anyone else like beer? ken I too like beer. But I also like Liquor. In fact wine is good too. I got drunk on wine coolers once (which is about the same a carving on a snowdeck) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodster_57 Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by Vin Quenneville I've been watching this post for the last few days and wasn't going to hop in. but I guess I will.. As long as you aren't racing.. just talking freecarving... if you know the proper techniques on carving, it doesn't matter what you ride. I've been carving on softies for years now... I haven't ridden plates for 5 years now... NO NEED!!! Stop all this stupid debating and spend your time on the hill having fun... Carving, Jibbing, Hucking or what ever brings a smile to your faces... Vin P.S. The great Gilmour looks just like I do on Softies... I remember reading about you on here years ago. And I agree if there is no need (for you) why bother. I mean obviously on the race course every fraction of a second counts. So in your opinion though why would a racer not want to use soft boots and such? I also read back in the day that you rode 45 deg angles on your board? Have you had to mofidy in any cants or heellifters? I remember for a day I rode with 45 deg angles and noticed how much it strengthened up my heelsides. But it felt so sloppy. And my toesides were way sloppy. Maybe I didn't give it a chance, but it just didn't feel right. Also what is you stance width. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vin Quenneville Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 I used to ride 45, 33 with a 20in stance... I rode those angles more due to boot out than anything else... I now ride with Palmer plate so I'm down to 21, 12 and a 21" stance... Have fun! Vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J Randy Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Guy’s, I don’t know if you just have to much time on your hands or what, but it is never the set up, it’s the rider that rips. Hard boots, soft boots – whatever, a rider that can carve can carve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maciek Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Okay. It's time to re-post my old picture from Stratton when I was just starting carving and it was on freeride A-deck with soft boots K2-Yeti in Clicker stepins. Here you go: <IMG src="http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze44bga/SoftBoard3a.jpg"> Questions about stance? Angles: 35/15 Width: 22" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvCanada Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 i ride with a 23inch stance to counteract the multi radii and soft nose folds i figure that since the middle radius is sometimes 1.5 meters tighter than the outsides in most freestyles, to get a clean arc under compression, keep the pressure near the ends! tell me if i'm an idiot, but i ripped on softies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by boostertwo It looks especially fun to see a rider rip arcs on softies and then throw a 180 and do the same switch. [/b] And even more fun to do the same thing in hard boots... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncermak Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by bola A Carve is a carve is a carve regardless of equipment. Just ask Sean! he makes freestyle boards as well as carving/race boards. Same goes for Chris. Jeff has done the same in the binding arena and I hope Fin will follow shortly given the success of the Bishop. My suggestion to the diehard hardbooters is that you direct your efforts at converting skiers, we call them crossovers, to snowboarding. Stop dividing the house - UNITE. Can I hear an AMEN!!! right on brother Bola! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 It Never about the gear at the fun level, Its just about the turn(or Carve) no matter what the media! I think it was De La Sol who said it Best! "Don't Matter Just Don't Bite It" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom H. Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 This post is too funny; I just had to jump in. I too am a student of the Vin Q. school of soft-set-up carving (although it's been about a season and a half since we've ridden together). Now a days I spend much more time on my soft-set-up. I have it dialed in, and can carve just as low as my hard-set-up. The difference to me is speed. With hard boots I can make the same turn as soft boots but only faster. The advantage to the soft boots (which actually aren't all that "soft") is versatility. In one run I can bash bumps, search for pow in the woods, and lay out some turns on the groomers. You never know what a full day on the hill will have in store; I like being ready for all of it without having to switch out gear. The biggest disadvantage I see, and what I miss about being in hard boots more often is the instant bond with other hard booters. There aren't many out there, but in those rare instances when I see a fellow hard booter in line, all they see is another jibber. Until they see me ride, then we hook up and take runs together. The point: Carvers come in all shapes and sizes. Mine just happens to be a 174 Fastback. Tom H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 The advantage to the soft boots (which actually aren't all that "soft") is versatility. In one run I can bash bumps, search for pow in the woods, and lay out some turns on the groomers. That's funny... I ride hard boots for the exact same reason. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Originally posted by Vin Quenneville I've been watching this post for the last few days and wasn't going to hop in. but I guess I will.. As long as you aren't racing.. just talking freecarving... if you know the proper techniques on carving, it doesn't matter what you ride. I've been carving on softies for years now... I haven't ridden plates for 5 years now... NO NEED!!! Stop all this stupid debating and spend your time on the hill having fun... Carving, Jibbing, Hucking or what ever brings a smile to your faces... Vin P.S. The great Gilmour looks just like I do on Softies... You just put a smile on the face of an old man in a wheelchair- unfortunately that old man in a wheelchair is me. I'll miss riding with you at ECES in Hard and soft boots. ________ Toyota Verossa History Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Real Dalv Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 <P> <center></center> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2010 Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 I quit riding hard boots a few years ago, not because I mastered them, but because they mastered me. After never skiing, and surfing for 20+ years, I discovered snowboarding in the early 90's (late I know, but there is nothing wrong with Kauai and Oahu every winter before then). Anyway, much to my ultimate chagrin, so did my longtime friend___, who proceeded to school me in carving about 10 years ago. I loved the bottom turn and off-the-lip aspect of carving and snowboarding, but never got the whole "I can rip better than you" part of it. Until I tried hard boots in Aspen in 1994. Perfect runs, no crowds, "hero" snow (like I cared or still care about carving on ice), and @#%^&* I could rip a toeside like a heavy bottom turn in LJ or Sunset Beach, but for the love of pete, I hated the heelside because that was a wash-out. Maybe it was the 15 years of switch foot (yeah, I am so bitchen), but I hated the heelside turn, having never skiied, and surfed so long like Jeff Hakman or Michael Peterson (well as i liked to think on the cutback). Anyway, flash forward to the frickin hard boots that I hated (mostly because I could not go heelside strongly), even though I was trying to sell alpine boards and the like to the small carving brotherhood. Lo and behold, I mounted Clickers at 48/35, rode the powder at speed, the trees and the gaps, the cliff drops, and the motherfrickin corduroy laying it down and over. It clicked and I have never looked back. Point of this (less than) diatribe, hard booters can carve better than soft booters any day. But like some who have posted above, even though all you bitchen hardbooters can do anything I can (but better), there is nothing better than the following (which I lived last Sat--Tue in the Sierras): Fast, laid-out turns in soft boots because the Clicker set-up offers such a positive heel/toe response (not unlike the TD's or other hard boot apparati), smooth sailing in the 2 feet of powder in the trees 75 yards from the "killer" jumps and whatnot that the kids are all over, and the satisfaction of knowing that while I am an acomplished switchfoot in surfing, my heelside (backside) turn with my Clickers feels so good, so natural, and so frickin surfing-like, that I quit going switchfoot surfing about 8 years ago, and love to bash the lip and carve down into a dynamic face/pit that the kids 20 years my junior are stoked. Not AI, but rail turned, weight forward, and looking to the stars. In other words, stop being so bitchen (like me), and enjoy ANYTIME you put it on edge..that is what carving is all about. Hasta La Vista....Cuando No Se. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 What boards are you softbooters carving on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RaceCarver Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Why does it seem like every Spring this stupid hard vs. soft boot thing surfaces? I find it amazing that at the exact time of year that Bomber,Catek,Coiler,Donek, etc report yet another good season, this same post seems to appear. The clowns at Burton Inc. must be trolling overtime since the company isn't showing a profit. What's the matter Burton, not as much money in the pimple faced "youth" crowd as you thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Vin will set you up with a softboot set up that will rail- if you are willing to exaggerate all the things you know about hard boots. You have to ride lower, twist more and throw yourself more into the turns. It really isn't a bad exercise to do if you want to improve your agressiveness which you can then transfer to your hard boots. Without allt eh extra leverage- you have to have more exact body positioning to trench in softies on hard snow. Does the know you are on hard boots or soft boots? No. IF you position your body correctly and hold it in the correct position you can trench pretty deep in soft boots. Believe it or not I think it takes more time to dial in your high performance soft gear than hard boot gear...but like anything, once it's done, it's done. So when do I ride soft boots? When I want to ride a little slower with friends. When the snow is too soift for hard booots, when it's raining, when there is pow. Todays highend two strap soft binding has soo much "push back" on its median strap that it almost behaves like a stiff plastic tongue on a hard boot- and of course the highbacks now are nearly as stiff as some softer hardboots. You can find boardercross decks that are stiffer than freecarve decks. Todays soft step in bindings can offer so much stiffness that the need to go over to hardboots for people with small feet just isn't there. I'd say Vin's set up is a rally car with nitrous. The rest of the carvers out there are looking for the f1 experience. Personally I find rally car racing (particularly winter rally) just as much fun to watch as f1. It all gets hairball so fast. Bordy brings up the interesting topic of carving on a teleboard. I thought teleboards were some wacked out missing link- like the duck billed platypus- until I tried one. I am very surprised that we don't have more carvers with teleboards that might just ride the telboard if it dumps 5 inches over the course of the day. I mean...some lift tickets are $70 you may as well get your fun factor as hgih as possible by riding the gear that can give you the most stoke available for the given snow conditions. The teleboard is a almost like an aquatic car with adjustable suspension on the fly. Whatever you ride....its just another way to bust your ass while having a great time. Would I ever give up my carving deck on a prefect chalk carving day for a teleboard- not a chance? No way. But would I run to my car to swap out my carving deck if it starts dumping- sure. Same thing goes if the mountin is overcrowed and the snow gets trashed- teleboard to the rescue, better that than scaping in softies. Huge dump hit last night- 14 inches of fresh- you know a big all moutain softie deck with great bindings and good soft boots is the call. Better than waiting in a ski house for 2 days for the groomers to flatten a track for you. Having a variety of gear just lets you ignore the weather channel and make plans and stick with them. The only thing that changes is whats under your feet. ________ MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 I wouldn't like going to the car and changing boots! Waste of time, if you ask me. But it seems like I am in the minority here- I started riding hard boots mostly for the powder/backcountry. (I think I have made this post before-- Conspiracy or not, Racecarver may be right!) I use a regular, wide-but-not-for-my-giant-feet freeride Arbor 167 for 90% of my days on snow. I love railing carves with it, when the best snow is on the groomers. Here in the Northwest, that isn't often enough to bother with a special deck that wouln't work in the trees, or for the backcountry, where the snow is better more often. I decided to switch to hardboots because they stopped making three strap bindings just as I arrived in the Northwest from the flat Midwest. I was riding with really good skiers, and learning big mountain skills, and getting really tired of tightening down laces, then three sets of ratchets- you all know the dance. Different flex, responsiveness every time-- never again! I started reading, and asking around, and decided pretty quickly that I was never going to see a set of real snowboard hardboots in a store, and I work at a store that sells Alpine touring/Randonee boots. I found some older model Dynafits that fit, cheap because they were old and too soft for real skiing and bought them. Bindings were harder- plates are a rare sight in Washington. I looked on the internet, decided Cateks were a better choice with the Randonee boots because of forward lean, and paid retail for the first time in five years. I could never go back. We get a lot of snow here, and wind comes with it a lot. I have enough responsiveness to rail it through on the groomed parts, or the flats, and when I get where the snow has blown I have no problem whipping a few orgasma-tron powder turns- and if an ice patch comes up, I am all set. I can hike in icy bootpacks with a heavy load in my pack, no problem. I use the same boots with my splitboard. I can walk around a snowy campsite in my liners, with their rubber sole made for the purpose. In trees, or powder, I leave the top (of 3) buckle hardly attached, and my ankles can move around the full range of motion left after ~15 years of crappy soft bindings. (I know they are better now, but my first bindings were nylon webbing straps with fastex buckles- painful on the ice!) I can see using a different board if you are going to be on groomers going fast all day, but I would never bother to switch out boots or bindings-I need all that stuff to stay the same, so I never have to adjust my self-taught lazy-ass style. I like to get out of the car and into the snow, outside as soon as possible for as long as possible. I take my lunch in my backpack and sit in the trees if snowing, or somewhere with a view if it is nice. Ultimately, though, I don't care what any of you ride on, so long as you are having fun. I ride with skiiers and softbooters 100% of the time, and when they (rarely) get so bored they go into the park I follow and ride the mellow, underused groomer next to it. The slower skiiers and riders are all scared of the park, so the groomer next door is almost always all mine, all day. I have dipped in and fooled around on the p-tex covered rails, for a laugh, and now I find myself tempted to jib snow covered trees when I am off-piste. But go back to fidding with laces? Never! I have started to call my soft-riding buddies "lacebooters" as they are fiddling at the top of a hike- All the skiiers and I are ready to go, me with the exact same boot/board interface tightness/comfort as the last time I clipped in. Lace-booter sounds kind of derogatory and emphasizes (what I see as) a weakness. But it is all in fun, the key word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 are those the dynafit tour lite extremes? About 3 lbs each- lighter than most soft boots. ________ Clear Trichomes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Yes, they are the Dynafit tourlight "extremes" (the blue ones from about three years ago) with a tongue from an even softer older model. And a bit of bootfitting to get my frankenfeet comfy... They are getting beat up, and I wish I could get boots made for snowboarding that were plastic with buckles but with a vibram sole, cushy walk mode, etc. I am sure me and the other eight people like me would pay good money for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Doug M Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Ride Yukon 169 Doug M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boostertwo Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Soft boots or hard, skilled riders can rip arcs. Binding hangover and full-tilt boot-out is the challenge for bigfoot riders like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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