EC-board for a light rider

[dshack]

I've been doing some searching and reading, and it seems like which EC is achievable on a wide range of equipment, a wide, torsionally stiff board with an 11-13m sidecut is supposed to make the technique a lot more pleasant. If there's some other characteristic that makes a good EC'er, please tell me.

The next item in my quiver, I think, is an all-mountain board. I want something that can hold an edge and power through chop, and float a bit in powder. It seems like I should be able to find a board that can both do this, and provide a good platform for learning EC.

From the almanac and some of the threads here, I've heard of the following boards as possible "poor man's swoards." It seems like, as I'm only 130lb (and wear MP24 boots), that I might be able to make do without a fancy carbon matrix or other high-end stiffening device, or mega-wide board. Have any of you ridden these (or more than one of these)? If you have, I'd be interested in opinions on how they fare for normal edgehold, EC, and all-mountain use.

Burton Speed

Wild Duck Knifer

Coiler AM

Oxygen Proton GS

Madd BX (is the sidecut way too small?)

Anything I'm missing?

[lonerider]

I've been doing some searching and reading, and it seems like which EC is achievable on a wide range of equipment, a wide, torsionally stiff board with an 11-13m sidecut is supposed to make the technique a lot more pleasant. If there's some other characteristic that makes a good EC'er, please tell me.

The next item in my quiver, I think, is an all-mountain board. I want something that can hold an edge and power through chop, and float a bit in powder. It seems like I should be able to find a board that can both do this, and provide a good platform for learning EC.

The next item in my quiver, I think, is an all-mountain board. I want something that can hold an edge and power through chop, and float a bit in powder. It seems like I should be able to find a board that can both do this, and provide a good platform for learning EC.

If you have, I'd be interested in opinions on how they fare for normal edgehold, EC, and all-mountain use.

Burton Speed

Wild Duck Knifer

Coiler AM

Oxygen Proton GS

Madd BX (is the sidecut way too small?)

Anything I'm missing?

Hi, I'm 140 lbs and have size 24 boots as well.

You first problem is that All mountain and EC don't really mix. While I think it can be done, neither the Coiler AM and Madd BX would be ideal for EC as they are All Mountain boards boards with shorter sidecuts and lower torsional stiffness (which makes them easier to swing around in off-piste situations).

I had this very conversation with Bruce of Coiler and he said that intrinsically an All Mountain board is not a great EC board and an EC board is not a great All-Mountain board and while he would build me anything I asked for - he recommended that I pick a standard model if the only reason I wanted a "hybrid" was because I had a vague want for a "do anything" board. So I ended up just going with his EX model and it is a GREAT EC board. I couldn't be happier. If you do want to see what a Coiler AM hybrid is like, talk to Mike T. He has a "Slushbuster" AM with a longer like > 12m sidecut that he had made that he likes, but realize it isn't as good for EC as the EX model.

So my question for you is... why do you want an AM board? Do you really ever go off into the trees, or bumps? Do you plan on doing jumps with it? The wideness of the EC will already float you a bit in open powders (as good as any non-powder specific alpine board). Or do were you like me and had some vague desire to not get a one-trick pony?

[dshack]

No, I really don't have a need for bump or tree riding. What I do want is float in powder and the ability to carve through lame conditions, which I thought was more doable on wider all-mountain boards than skinnier race ones. I basically drop into powder bowls when there's powder, and cruise groomers otherwise, but the groomers get real choppy as the day goes on.

[BlueB]

Contrary to the popular belief, I think that am boards are ok option for EC. At least on the good snow. Smaller scr just means that all happens a bit quicker, so you get a bit less time to enjoy the laid-over feeling. I think that softer flex is beneficial.

I can EC (not very pretty, though) on Prior 4WD (10m scr), Dave's stiffened ATV (10.5) (he also rips EC on both of these), then Tanker (10.5) , 4807 /910.5), Hogger Booger Grinder (11.2), Generics IQ (12), Prior WCR (13)(great but stiff so you need to move at higher speed), and my latest aquizition: Burton Speed W (10.5). This one feels great, but I didn't have chance to try it on hard pack yet.

I believe that Ultra Prime (10.5, 12) is also good EC board, but haven't tried it... Many rave about Protons (13, 14), too.

I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to test run Pierre's Swoard this whole season, just for the taste of the real thing...

With your small boot size you'll easily get away with 19.5/20 waist.

[dshack]

Right now I'm riding an Ultra prime, a 162 with a 10.5 scr or so. At first I thought it was nervous, chattery, and had trouble in the chop, and while this is true to some degree, some technique breakthroughs involving angulation, rotation, getting the board more vertical and applying more dynamic pressure to the board made it a lot easier to handle cruddy snow and keep tail chatter down. I can ride it in the pow due to my light weight, but it's definitely less fun than my freeride board. If you think about it, over a 160cm board, 1cm extra waist width translates to 160cm^2 extra surface area, whereas a little bit of length adds much less (for a 19cm board, 19cm^2). Anyway, I think something a little stiffer and wider, with maybe a longer SCR, would work out pretty well. The UP's nice on good snow, though.

[Mike T]

My Coiler AMs may have a bigger than normal sidecut radius but that was done to increase carving stability on the groomed and not to EC. As lonerider says these would not make the best EC decks due to flex profile... a true EC deck would be softer lengthwise, stiffer across than my Coilers.

But for carving on chop, trees, and general freeriding these things absolutely rock. At no time have I ever wanted a tighter sidecut and the increase in stability while carving on chop and slush is a big plus. I'll never own an AM carver with a <12 sidecut again - probably would go 13 next time - but I really like the 172 length for freeriding. It doesn't feel gangly in the trees at all or on uber-steep pitches.

So, if you are looking to carve on the post-11 am Mt Hood Meadows chop, get an AM board or maybe even something like a Proton 164/168. If you are looking to EC, lonerider's Coiler EX sounds great, but you might find that Mt Hood isn't the best place to EC except in Jan/Feb with the tendency towards wet choppy snow and the inconsistent grooming the other months.

[lonerider]

Right now I'm riding an Ultra prime, a 162 with a 10.5 scr or so.

I started out on an UP162 myself. While it can carve a bit, there are many boards out there that you might like better - Coiler being one of them. The Coiler EX 168 model that I have has a 21.7 cm waist, that's pretty much as wide as most alpine boards go (the 168 Swoard has a 22cm waist and the Prior ATV has a 23 cm waist) so in general EC boards (which in general tend to be wider) will float better in powder.

I haven't ridden the Swoard, but the Coiler EX is extremely damp and is quite good at holding an edge in cruddy, slush/variable snow (not that it is rather difficult to do a fully laid out EC in those conditions though). You can get an AM, but it doesn't sound like you really need an AM (since you are still riding on groomed trails most of the time - even if they aren't quite groomed anymore by midday). If you are set on buying a Coiler, you can talk to Bruce and he can adjust the nose for the type of snow conditions you ride in most often.

[dshack]

How would an Oxygen Proton or Burton Speed compare? I don't think I've got the funds for a new board from Bruce, and I've seen these pop up for $200-300. My guess is I'd be trading some off-piste capability for a little more railing ability. How damp are they compared to the coiler?

Edit: would a Madd 170, with a 12m radius and tendancy to not chatter, work out? I know it would have a little less float, but if I could pull real stable carves through anything on the groomers, that would probably be a compromise I'd be willing to make.

[lonerider]

How would an Oxygen Proton or Burton Speed compare? I don't think I've got the funds for a new board from Bruce, and I've seen these pop up for $200-300. My guess is I'd be trading some off-piste capability for a little more railing ability. How damp are they compared to the coiler?

Edit: would a Madd 170, with a 12m radius and tendancy to not chatter, work out? I know it would have a little less float, but if I could pull real stable carves through anything on the groomers, that would probably be a compromise I'd be willing to make.

An Oxygen Proton would be a lot better than the UP162, little chatter and very stable during high speed carves. The Madd 170 has a very narrow profile and isn't the best for soft condition. I haven't ridden the Burton Speeds myself, but I'm pretty sure they are no where near as damp as the Coiler.

No worries about the Coiler... you'll have nearly a year to save the move for one ;)

[dshack]

Yeah, the local resort'll be open until I go back to San Francisco for the summer, but all the people I usually ride up with seem to have given up. I'll be lucky to get 3 or 4 more days in this month.

Dampness question for anyone with experience:

UP<Proton<Coiler, got that. Speed<Proton?

[Mike T]

I've not ridden a UP or a Speed but since you are on a budget I would suggest not getting another Burton - I suspect they'd be more similar than different.

Coiler's wait is not as long as it used to be. It would seem that Bruce has made a couple of changes to allow himself more time to work on boards. (As far as I know, it's still a one-man show)

At this point I'd really like to ride with you before making any more recommendations. Can you ride during the week of 4/16 - 4/20 at all, or possibly the weekend of 4/21-4/22? I could possibly make a trip up to The Hood.

[Jack M]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Burton-PJ7-Racing-Carving-Alpine-Snowboard_W0QQitemZ200095932958QQcategoryZ36297QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[dshack]

Damn, missed it. That would have solved all my problems. And what a steal!

[FTA2R]

i have a little speed, it's a 154 i think. only ridden it a few times, but it is a bit poppy (and i weigh more than you). not likely to hold an edge like the high end boards, but if you find a good price, it can be a fun second board. the blood graphic is really cool, too...do a search for "speed" here on bol or check out alpinecarving.com and do a search there, i'm pretty sure you'll see a comparison of the speed to other boards. i believe the speeds are softer than Factory Primes, but don't quote me.

[Peter Vu]

dshak,

I also weight 130 and I own a Swoard 161M and a Wild Duck.

It's my 2 cents but with your weight, you can EC on the WD. I tried it on the steepest slope here in Kirkwood, CA and it worked great. It has a smaller sidecut than the Swoard so you can't press on the gas to the max during a turn but that's a small detail.

Compared to the Swoard, it is like a riding steel bike vs. a full carbon bike so it feels a less precise.

Hope this helps.

Peter

[BlueB]

There's a Speed 158W on ebay right now.

I like my 168W a lot, to the point that it might replace the 4WD as AM/teaching/always in the car board... It needs to pass the hard snow test first, though.

Stifness should be somwhere in between FP and UP, but I haven't ridden any of those. Hand flex and ride feels a bit softer than 4WD 174, but I'm suspecting that I have a stiffened version...

[Arnaud]

The Donek Axxess / Axis is also a good choice. I own a 172 Axis, it's a very good board for carving in soft conditions : wet / spring snow, powder. This board is also suitable to learn EC (not on icy steep slopes on which Swoard is the best). I can do easily front/back turn with it.