POW boards

[roscoe]

I've been thinking of getting a powder board to have some fun on, but how does the sizing change when buying a powder board (most likely a fishtail or swallowtail) - meaning how much longer do you normally buy a powder board than any other board?

Im 5'8" riding a Coiler AM 169 - if I was to go witih the Osin 4807 - is a 168 or the 178 the right size??

Also, what angles to people usually ride Pow boards at?

Anything else that I'd need to know? I've already read the Carver's Almanac section on powder boards ...

Thanks

[BlueB]

Depending on what you want to do...

4807 178 for float in deep, stability at speed on steep, crud busting and a bit of carving on groomed (remember, that thing has only 135 of contact edge).

4807 168 for trees, byt then, the 3800 169 or 163 is even better for that...

Finaly, the shamless plug ;) I've got both models for you.

As for angles, I go about 45/40 on hard boots. That gives me a bit of underhang which I dont mind. On lower angles my heel side turn falls appart...

Boris

[lonerider]

I've been thinking of getting a powder board to have some fun on, but how does the sizing change when buying a powder board (most likely a fishtail or swallowtail) - meaning how much longer do you normally buy a powder board than any other board?

Im 5'8" riding a Coiler AM 169 - if I was to go witih the Osin 4807 - is a 168 or the 178 the right size??

Also, what angles to people usually ride Pow boards at?

Anything else that I'd need to know? I've already read the Carver's Almanac section on powder boards ...

Thanks

I'm 5'9" 145 lbs. I rode the 168cm and it gave me plenty of float (I am lighter though). If you riding the East Coast, I would go shorter because you have tighter trees and the powder isn't as deep (so you don't need a tremendous amount of float). Remember that all powder boards are wider and so they will be slower edge to edge - but many of them carve pretty well if you take that into account. I'm surprised that you don't find you Coiler AM good in powder (many people would use an AM board as their powder board).

[BlueB]

I'm surprised that you don't find you Coiler AM good in powder (many people would use an AM board as their powder board).

Well, my 4WD 174 just plain sucks in powder compared to any of real pow boards I've tried. No pun intended on 4WD - it's a great allround board.

[Enzo]

I'm surprised that you don't find you Coiler AM good in powder (many people would use an AM board as their powder board).

I was wondering the same as well. For the rare east coast pow day, set those bindings way back and that board should be a weapon in any amount of snow. I used to have a AM69 and it was a blast. Last month, I had my AM72 in 2ft plus in JH and it rocked!! it floated great in steep bowls & the trees. in the east things get choppy so fast or the resorts groom when they shouldn't--you'll only have a couple good runs a season with a true pow board. That AM69 is versatile enough to handle anything that's thrown at it.

[lonerider]

Well, my 4WD 174 just plain sucks in powder compared to any of real pow boards I've tried. No pun intended on 4WD - it's a great allround board.

Well I didn't say "I" would ride a AM board for powder, just many people here would Actually I had ridden the 4WD 174 in a 6" of fresh in the tight trees at Whistler and it wasn't too bad. I mean most of the powder boards I've ridden float better (Burton Fish, Prior Khyber, Osin 4807), but I had a lot of fun with it. Since the original poster is on the East Coast, I question the need for a dedicated powder board (unless he travels a lot). I personally have a Khyber 160 split right now.

[BlueB]

I had ridden the 4WD 174 in a 6" of fresh in the tight trees at Whistler and it wasn't too bad.

You made my point. At the rare ocasions of fresh and deep one should have GRET time, not just "not to bad". I mean, I've ridden race board in 18" in the past and it was fun, but it would had been waaaay more fun with the rigt tool. So, if one can afford it, a pow stick should be in the quiver, even if used only few times a year.

[lonerider]

You made my point. At the rare ocasions of fresh and deep one should have GRET time, not just "not to bad". I mean, I've ridden race board in 18" in the past and it was fun, but it would had been waaaay more fun with the rigt tool. So, if one can afford it, a pow stick should be in the quiver, even if used only few times a year.

That's your personal philosophy... but if you looked at the original poster's profile, he only has one board at the moment... far less than your nine boards. I myself have a number of boards, but I realize there is a bit of a gap between those of us who have a board for every type of riding, and those of us who like fewer more versatile boards.

Not to mention your home mountain is 30 mins away from your and Whistler (which gets a "decent" amount of powder) is like 1.5 hours at most. This is compared that to someone who drives 4 hours to get to the mountains (making the chances of him catching one of the few East Coast powder days rare).

[roscoe]

the only reason i was thinking about this was b/c we got some good powder days here in the past month or so, and I tried to ride the AM in it and it didnt work too well. This might be completely due to my lack of experience on an alpine board :( , but when I would put weight on the tip when turning, it would automatically dive under the powder, and often end up flipping me. Is there something I can do to keep the tip from dipping under the powder like that?

I go to school about 2 hours from sugarloaf and sunday river, and yes I only have 2 boards now (the coiler and a burton - which i've used twice this year, once to keep up with a friend and also on a crappier day)...if this is more an issue of building up my skill set, I'm all for waiting and getting better - just thought a powder board looked like some fun!

[BlueB]

Anti-diving solutions:

Move the bindings back;

Learn to ride centered or even weight on back foot if required;

"Surf" the turns;

Get a real pow board ;) (it is fun)

Right skills can get you so far, right tool gets you so far, but only the combination of both would get you all the way... In anything you do.

[lonerider]

the only reason i was thinking about this was b/c we got some good powder days here in the past month or so, and I tried to ride the AM in it and it didnt work too well. This might be completely due to my lack of experience on an alpine board :( , but when I would put weight on the tip when turning, it would automatically dive under the powder, and often end up flipping me. Is there something I can do to keep the tip from dipping under the powder like that?

I go to school about 2 hours from sugarloaf and sunday river, and yes I only have 2 boards now (the coiler and a burton - which i've used twice this year, once to keep up with a friend and also on a crappier day)...if this is more an issue of building up my skill set, I'm all for waiting and getting better - just thought a powder board looked like some fun!

Sounds like it's the first time you've encountered real powder and everyone does that the first day or so. Riding in powder is not like riding on groomers, with regular boards you really have to bias your weight to the tail end of the board.

As BlueB said, it's a combination of technique and getting the right gear. I'm guessing you are in the 150-160 lbs range, if so than you should be able at keep the nose from submarining. With your current setups, move you bindings at least one insert set back.

With a powder board, you will float virtually automatically and don't need to lean back so much (reducing leg burn). Letting you enjoy the floaty sensation more.

[Buell]

rw, it is about personal preference. There are a good number of riders here who love their AM alpine decks in powder. There are even a few who swear by their race boards. I personally have found that I want a true powder board, with softies, in real powder.

There are a lot of different options out there. A short tapered shape will be a blast in the trees and turn tight, while a longer powder deck, like a tanker, will draw bigger turns at high speeds and be better at busting through the crud when the powder is all chopped up. I have a variety of powder boards, big to small. Often, I ride the bigger ones first thing in the open powder, then the shorter ones the rest of the day off in the trees. Mmmmmmmm powder.

[Jon Dahl]

You have to learn how to surf the turns. Weight shifts more than typical turn initiation is the rule in deep pow. Turns are initiated with ankle rolls, while still on the "tail" of the board. Wanna slow down, stomp on the back foot! Think slash more than carve. Now, that said, Machin' down a steep on a swallowtail, you really can carve a turn, it just looks like an extended slash when you do it.

[roscoe]

I've ridden my burton in powder a lot - out west too, so real powder! - but I only started riding alpine/the coiler this year. After realizing that I couldnt put my weight on the nose, I started to move my weight back, but the problem was that I felt I couldnt really carve through my turns in that stance (without putting weight on the nose), but instead was skidding a lot more and acting as though the coiler wasnt an alpine board but a freeride board. I figured that was mostly an issue of experience? That as I get better at carving on the good stuff, I'd be able to carve in powder and not submarine the nose?

I'm about 165-167lbs right now.

question about the style of riding a powder board - in the powder, do you actually lay out and make a full carve as you would on a groomed slope, or is more the style of using a freeriding board in powder? Or again, personal preference?

[D-Sub]

you dont 'carve' in fresh stuff. you float it. surf it. trying to shift your weight to the nose to "dive" into a turn will have the same result 99.9% of the time:

purl.

weight back, nose up, or get a board that allows you to ride centered. your AM should work ok, but might not for you...thats either technique/style, or just a matter of preference maybe?

unless you get a lot of deep days, I wouldnt say get a swallow. Get something that is more well-rounded. Have you looked at a tanker? a 172 would probably float you quite well.

[Buell]

In powder, you will use the base of the board, not the edges - much softer touch. As you have found, you cannot power up the nose like riding on a groomer. With the right powder board though (short or long), you can ride very centered (not on your back leg), and hardly worry at all about burying the nose.

[roscoe]

k- I didnt think you could reall "carve" in deep powder, i didnt see how that was really possible.

I've looked only a little bit at the tanker, but will look more. are you suggesting the tanker b/c it could be also used as an all mountain board, while a swallowtail is more limited in use?

thanks

[D-Sub]

yes.

also keep in mind that stiff boots/interface can make pow riding/learning much harder than it already is.

[roscoe]

D-sub - I had read that its almost split evenly between poeple using hardboots versus soft on powder boards - I'd assume using softboots would be a lot easier since you're doing movements that would seem uncomfortable in hardboots, but also decrease the control you have

john - thank you, I'll definitely take you up on that one. maybe get a day in at sunapee again too. and hell, maybe all this rain will turn to snow and this weekend will be worth it

[D-Sub]

the people riding hardboots on powder days are familiar with that setup. It sounds to me like youre quite new to hardboots. No idea how long you were a softbooter before, but if youre quite used to soft setups but NOT used to riding powder, and then you try to jump on a hardboot setup on a fresh day?

shiiit.

I remember when I moved to Bend, riding at Bachelor. First big dump I took up my MLY 167...it was an "all mountain" shape...fairly stiff...bout 22 cm at the waist.

TD2s and Suzukas.

I

HATED

IT

but this was probably my fifth day that season, and I had ridden maybe 5 days total the year before...and possibly NONE before that...and hadnt been on a hardboot setup in fresh in ten years...

basically, I didnt know wtf I was doing. AND i had the boots cranked and locked.

cut to the middle of the season...I demo a donek axis 182 on a 12" or so day, and ride it EVERYWHERE and have a lot of fun on it. A bit long in the trees for me, but everything else was great.

cut to one year later...custom built Prior AWD 192...23.5 wide...get that thing on 24"+ fresh at mammoth on a bluebird day and the only thing that gave out was my cardio, mostly due to altitude and over-exuberance.

familiarity, analysis, skill level...all far more important than board, BUT if those are lacking just a little, an "easier" board will help drastically.

[roscoe]

very new to hardboots, ridden with them 9 times. Softboots in powder is nothing new, been riding for 10 years in softboots (part of the reason why i thought it would be fun to have a real powder board to use a few times a year); but earlier this year we got 20" of powder one thursday, tried out the coiler/hardboots in that, and yeah, didn't like it that much.

I knew people used their hardboots in powder, but I just couldnt really figure out how/why. By the end of the day i had gotten the hang of it, but it wasnt really comfortable and concluded that the next powder day i'd use my other board so i wouldnt be flipping over the nose of the board so often!

[Horseman]

It should be noted that Ross' AM has a 19cm waist and I'm wondering if people were imagining a 21.5cm waist when replying. It will float well enough at speed, but the higher binding angles make the surfing action harder to pull off.

I had the same experience with that board last year. Once the powder was cut up/piled up, though, the AM was awesome for banging through it. But for those very rare mornings of fresh east coast powder I put on my soft setup and head for Ripsaw, Misery Whip, Choker, etc. I would then bring out the AM in the afternoon to blow through the piles (if I hadn't sold it to you!). And then use a carving board the next morning after they've groomed it all out.

I'll be up this weekend.

[philw]

I like riding my hard boots in powder; the same stuff which works on piste works out there, in my experience. If you're comfortable with hard boots, there's no problem with riding them in powder.

As many will be aware, you can actually ride powder a lot more lazily than you can ride the piste - it's very forgiving and easy.

On the original post... check the manufacturer's length recommendations. Trad powder boards ride long; Fish and Malolos ride short. So at 62kgs I ride a 163 piste board, a 165 fish, a 162 Malolo, and I used to ride a 168 Supermodel powder board.

At the moment I ride powder with the same angles I ride piste. I'd say that's a good starting point. I set my boots the same way also; just swap the bindings over and you're good to go.

[Dr D]

I ride both a 168 and a 185 identity with hard boots. I prefer a powder board for powder. that said I have an OSIN 4807 168 and one of BLUEB's Dynastar 4807 178's I highly prefer the 168 in tight trees and glades and the 178 for wide open deep powder fields or steep and fast applications where I have room to maneuver. I haven't tried the 3800 yet so no comments there.

Brace yourselves for blasphemy:biggthump

both 4807's carve extremely well considering the soft nose and the stubby swallowtail design. So they are lots of fun on the groomers as well. the boat nose lends itself well to moguls ( the nose doesn't ride up it sort of pushes you back into the trough) autopilot:biggthump they also perform admirably in the slop.

I have used both hard and soft boots on them and must say that they require lots of ankle mobility to really ride in the trees and tighter areas. Go soft or go really wimpy hard boots. the stiff carving boots won't allow you to react and recover as easily to changes in line and terrain and unseen obstacles. you won't be carving you will be surfing:biggthump

A real Swallowtail is a whole different animal than the 4807 they are soft throughout the board and the tails are really fragile. the 4807 is quite stiff on the effective edge and very soft in the nose so the nose is more fragile than the tail. center your stance on the effective edge and carve away. this setting is way far back on the board so you are always in powder mode. No binding changes to go off piste.

Bottom line everyone should have one. :lol: For your info I like the 168 the best and I am 6'4" 265

blueb has a great deal on them and he's topnotch to deal with. They are also all over ebay. the osin version anyway.

[Dr D]

has anyone ridden a DUPRAZ?? I suspect that the feel is similiar to a 4807 judging by their website info. Anyone ridden both?