John E Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I'm a hardboot newbie. Still working on technique. I was riding with several people on Saturday at Winter Park / Mary Jane. I rode behind a young guy - Marshall on one run. I don't know how much his technique differs from others but I tried to mimic him and for about 3 turns, I felt like "I got it". The best way I can describe what I think I saw him do is what used to be described in skiing is "unweighting". At the initiation of each turn, he appeared to dramatically "sink" toward his board. By pulling the board toward the body, your weight drops toward the board. As the board is put on edge, this causes the board to decamber, initiating the turn. Getting the board to decamber with say 1.5 G's works better than with 1 G. I contrast, I have been trying to set the board on edge and wait for my own weight to decamber the board to initiate the turn. This takes longer and sometimes never really happens. Watching Marshall, I noticed that the initiation of his turns was crisp and certain. His turns were relatively short-radiused. Is this what most carvers do or am I way off-base? When I tried to do this later, I was tired and the slopes were crowded and I couldn't repeat it. I'm also wondering if it is a little like mountain biking. Its easier to make a difficult move if you see someone immediatly ahead of you do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Slalom vs. GS turns. One is a push/pull and the other is a weight down into the turn. I think there is an article in the Bomber articles on this subject. They call it different things but I'm sure it's what you want. You will see it under technical articles called "Cross Under, Cross Over, Cross Through." The push/pull is a type of turn I usually use when riding tight slalom types of turns and/or when I want to create more force exerting on the edge of my board. It's accomplished by keeping a quiet upper body with legs compressed while starting my turn. The turn is accomplished by angulating and driving my knees while extending my legs as the turn progresses. I actually push my board outward creating more pressure on my edge. The unweighting part comes at the end of the turn and is caused from me compressing my legs by pulling them into my chest and then going into transition to start another turn. This type of turn is usally short lived and used for shorter slalom type turns. The weight down into the turn type is used generally for larger type GS turns. This type I keep my upper body quiet and come into my turn standing up but not quite fully extended. I initiate the turn by driving my knees and as the turn progresses I compress my legs and my body gets closer to my board. At the end of my turn my knees have hit or are very close to my chest. The unweighting then comes from me standing up quickly and going into transition to make a new turn. It is sometimes good to combine both techniques and come up with a mixture of both. I switch back and forth to accomidate the terrain I'm on. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave ESPI Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Not sure if it's of any help, but on my heel side, I drop my butt low, and throw my hip forward. Then as I lay into the toeside, I push the front knee down and throw my shoulders into the hill while extending my legs out straight. kind of a "Squat/ Thrust" move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I rode behind a young guy - Marshall on one run. I don't know how much his technique differs from others but I tried to mimic him and for about 3 turns, I felt like "I got it".The best way I can describe what I think I saw him do is what used to be described in skiing is "unweighting". At the initiation of each turn, he appeared to dramatically "sink" toward his board. By pulling the board toward the body, your weight drops toward the board. As the board is put on edge, this causes the board to decamber, initiating the turn. Getting the board to decamber with say 1.5 G's works better than with 1 G. Is this what most carvers do or am I way off-base? I'm also wondering if it is a little like mountain biking. Its easier to make a difficult move if you see someone immediatly ahead of you do it. I call it drop, edge and roll. It is definitely how I carve. And do bumps and crud transitions and deeper powder and....what I have teaching to my never evers for the last couple of years. In techie terms (AASI) it is called down unweighting. and is one of the four ways of unweighting your board. With less weight on the board the transition is easier. This is the weightlessness you feel when the elevator starts. Up unweighting. What is traditionally taught for turn transition. Stand up tall. When you stop standing up the elevator has stopped and that weightlessness is what you feel. Terrain unweighting. Bumps and jumps that cause you to feel light. and or airborn. Rebound unweighting. Perhaps what you are doing. Which is the unweighting that you get from a decambered board when it returns to a cambered position or something roughly like that. NOt like you didn't have enough to think about already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I'm a hardboot newbie. Still working on technique. I was riding with several people on Saturday at Winter Park / Mary Jane. I rode behind a young guy - Marshall on one run. I don't know how much his technique differs from others but I tried to mimic him and for about 3 turns, I felt like "I got it". Watching Marshall, I noticed that the initiation of his turns was crisp and certain. His turns were relatively short-radiused. Is this what most carvers do or am I way off-base? I'm also wondering if it is a little like mountain biking. Its easier to make a difficult move if you see someone immediatly ahead of you do it. This is an EXCELLENT example to all new alpine riders of WHAT to do. If at all possible get with a seasoned rider. Well done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mario Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Join us sunday John, you know where. mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjamie Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 word; I was out the other day and after some runs of 'the norm' changed my normal stance to what had been my crouching stance, and crouched even lower -- this, along with keeping my weight above the edge, helped so much I'm sure I got a lot better in just one day. Congrats to a new discoverey, it's always fun to get better at boarding eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metjeep Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 ... I've been following him for several years now, and I still don't know how he does it. Probably has to do with a 35 year age difference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 oldacura, here is the article jtslalom is referring to, hope you find it useful: http://www.bomberonline.com//articles/cross_over.cfm Nice work following a better rider and being observant - that will give you a big leg up. Not sure if it's of any help, but on my heel side, I drop my butt low, and throw my hip forward. Sitting into the heelside turn before you tilt the board up on edge is not necessary. Use your knees as shock absorbers, not just to "get low". Then as I lay into the toeside, I push the front knee down and throw my shoulders into the hill while extending my legs out straight. Don't do this. You want your shoulders to remain mostly level to the slope of the hill. You want your center of gravity (hips) to be low and inside, not your shoulders. http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/toesideproblem.cfm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 If you want to get better at ANY sport, do it with people who are better than you. At 45, I just did the Bromley RTTC and learned more in three days than I ever could have winning any USASA races, or paying $1000 plus for a week long camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted March 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 I agree with you about doing a sport with those better than you - as long as their not too much better (& leave you in the dust). I grew up skiing with my best friend who was always a little better than me & it always pushed me beyond my comfort zone. If someone is too much better (faster) they may push you to dangerous speeds or in bicycling for instance, be so far ahead of you it becomes frustrating. My plan for the rest of this season & next is to spend time with other hardbooters and watch their examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mario Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 My plan for the rest of this season & next is to spend time with other hardbooters and watch their examples. See you sunday then! mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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