Summer Snowboard Camps?

[Guest Bamboo_Girl]

Hi..

I'm thinking of feeding my snowboarding habit with what else? A summer camp of course.

I've read and seen ad's for a couple, which I assume are the usual suspects....pro-ride @ whistler, mt. hood, etc.

Are any of you familiar with these or other summer camps? Are they any good? It is a ton of money to spend and I'd really only do so if there was a good chance I'd up my skills significantly!

I realize they probably have a freestyle focus but then, I am interested in that.

Thanks!

[Sinecure]

Check out what Snowperformance has going on. Web Site

Also the past few seasons some folks have run race camps in Chile. Some combination of Tyler Jewell, Phil Fell, Lisa Kosglow and Anton Pogue as coaches. Usually toward the end of August. Its a total blast, but expensive by the time you fly to Chile. You also get to hang out and surf with Anton at his place on the beach. Do a search on either of these and you'll find some info.

The other camps at Hood are pure freestyle, no carving at all. Chile is real riding, Hood is just laps down a course or laps thru a park. But you can go kiting if you want.

[lonerider]

Hi..

I'm thinking of feeding my snowboarding habit with what else? A summer camp of course.

I've read and seen ad's for a couple, which I are the usual suspects....pro-ride @ whistler, mt. hood, etc.

Are any of you familiar with these or other summer camps? Are they any good? It is a ton of money to spend and I'd really only do so if there was a good chance I'd up my skills significantly!

I realize they probably have a freestyle focus but then, I am interested in that.

Thanks!

For carving, I've done Snowperformance and it is good. I would avoid the Snowperformance summer camps (Mammoth or Hood) because they are kind of advanced and because you don't get to practice what you learned for several more months.

For freestyle, I like High Cascade, I went there a couple of times a few years ago and it was really useful. My friend Preston (former pro rider for Airwalk) is now a camp director there. photos

[nekdut]

For carving, I've done Snowperformance and it is good. I would avoid the Snowperformance summer camps (Mammoth or Hood) because they are kind of advanced and because you don't get to practice what you learned for several more months.

The Mammoth Snowperformance camp has groups of all levels. I think they have only done mammoth twice so far, and both times they have had first time hardbooters in attendance.

I agree that it is a little unfortunate that its hard to get the time to practice everything you learn right at the season for these summer camps though, but its a great chance to get some quality time on the snow when most people are hitting the beach.

[RDY_2_Carve]

Hey Bamboo_Girl!

You want summer carving camp? I give you Indian School ditch!

It's in your backyard and it's great for keeping those boarding legs going until next winter. If you need a board checkout the Loaded line at Hardbooter.com. I have the pintail and it rocks! We're going to start riding the ditch soon so drop me a line if you're interested?

Cheers,

JPW

[Guest Bamboo_Girl]

For carving, I've done Snowperformance and it is good. I would avoid the Snowperformance summer camps (Mammoth or Hood) because they are kind of advanced and because you don't get to practice what you learned for several more months.

<o:p></o:p> Hi!

<o:p>You make a really good point about not being able to practice for a while and all. Maybe it is different for those of you who have been doing this for a while, but at least for me, it always takes a few runs to get my legs back under me and the whole muscle memory bit. Even when I've only been away from the snow for a few days, much for 9-10 months!

</o:p>

Hey Bamboo_Girl!

You want summer carving camp? I give you Indian School ditch!

It's in your backyard and it's great for keeping those boarding legs going until next winter. If you need a board checkout the Loaded line at Hardbooter.com. I have the pintail and it rocks! We're going to start riding the ditch soon so drop me a line if you're interested?

Cheers,

JPW

Ha! Indian School Ditch? Is that one of the Arroyo's? What part of town is it in? I'm assuming you are talking about longboarding right? That's what I understood anyway.

I've got a cool little t-board that I am starting to ride more often. It is a neat ride, although stopping at high speed can be a bit, um, let's say, scary!

[RDY_2_Carve]

I've ridden my T-board in the arroyos and it works just fine. I'd recommend a longboard however...

Yeah ditch riding rules....and I can't think of a better way to work those snowboarding muscles in the offseason.

[philfell]

Anton and I are doing a camp in Chile again this year, exact dates are still up in the air, but it will probably happen end of Aug/early Sept.

Usually I do one at Copper early June, but they don't have enough snow to have us there this year.

I'm considering doing a session at Whistler at the end of June. I'll post details as I get things ironed out.

[Guest Bamboo_Girl]

I've raced raced bicycles for several years, so it isn't as if I am lacking things to do in the summer. I've got a neat little skateboard I'll be using along with, maybe play on a softball team, and definitely lots of ping-pong.

Surfing would be great but unfortunately, living in New Mexico, the largest body of water is likely one of the city pools!

My reason for asking was more, well, that I've really had great fun snowboarding. The chance to moonlight for a weekend or week over summer, sounds appealing.

After giving it a lot of thought though, the $2k or so they are asking (high cascade, pro-ride in whistler, etc), is just not worth it. In part, because I won't get to use those skills for months. Aside from that, I'd much, much rather spend the 2 grand on a trip to Mongolia or Tibet!

So it looks like the only snowboarding I'll do over summer will be in my head :)

[Guest Bamboo_Girl]

Yeah, it is like $1700 w/o a room, and a full $2k with one. Worthy of note, that doesn't include little tidbits like say, oh, you know, food, airfaire, etc. So the grand total for 5 days of snowboarding on the glacier is probably closer to $2500.

I am willing to pay $2500 for some kind of training, but sheesh, I best be darn good afterwards! Then again, afterwards I'd do what, ride my skateboard for 5 months?!

So you could say I'm a touch dubious.

Surfing in hawaii sounds mac, and boarding in Nepal even more so.

We'll see :)

[philfell]

I echo much of what Vlad said above about taking time off snow for many athletes. But, correct me if I'm worng, this is your first season riding an alpine board so I think at this point spending five to ten days in the summer isn't going to be snowboard overload for you.

Those camps are a total rip off and have no alpine at all. Last season we did our Chile camp for $2500 (didn't include plane ticket to Santiago), you got eight days on winter snow, slope side lodgeing (most camps at Hood you have to take a bus to the mt each morning), meals, and transportation in Chile. For an extra 500 we stayed another week and surfed at the coast.

The camps I've done at Copper came in around 5 or 6 hundred for five days on snow and lodging. Whistler this year might be a bit more. You mentioned that you cycle, if you mt. bike you could bring you bike to Whistler and ride in the afternoons, I know I'm going to.

If you are looking for a camp where you can actually work on you hardboot riding get in touch with me, or Sean who does the Snowperformance camps. Personally I have not yet worked with Sean, but I have not heard ONE bad thing about the camps he runs, very professional and hardboot focused.

[Art]

Personally I have not yet worked with Sean, but I have not heard ONE bad thing about the camps he runs, very professional and hardboot focused.

He will drink your beer if your not looking, but other than that hes a stand up guy.

[FTA2R]

he'll also stuff your boots with snow if you mess with him. i forgot what it's called.

[nekdut]

1, 2, 3.... Waahhhh?

Sorry, Barry. I couldn't help it! Sean started it :)

[Mike T]

Bamboo_Girl, the SnowPerformance camp at Sun Peaks in December would be a great one for you. My wife and I have done it twice - in '04 and '06. Both times were a blast and both times we learned a ton. We'll probably go again in '08- my daughter will be 6 and ready for all-day ski school.

www.snowperformance.com

Sean does run a good camp and has a great mix of professionalism and fun. He has a definite philosophy - teach techniques that will work in a wide variety of conditions, including a race course - and he enlists great coaches such as Lisa Kosglow, Mark Harris, Mike Jacoby.

[Guest Bamboo_Girl]

Hey ya'll :)

Forget hardboots & alpine, this is my first season, as in snowboarding altogether. Happily I was not a 2-planker before that either, so my conscious is quite clear...

Anyway, I really don't mind that camps are more freestyle oriented. I do like the park and spend more and more time there. Usually I do some carving & freeriding in the morning (ie...bulletproof, hard snowpack time). Then spend the entire rest of the day in the park.

Improving my riding skills is what I'm after, freestyle and possibly carving too, although I'm very much a softie (ie....boots!).

I just can't justify spending $2500 for 5 days of snowboarding in the middle of summer. It makes no sense and I have a hard time imaginging that I'm suddenly going to be throwing 5's & 7's, come next season just because of a summer camp! If the price was say, a third to a quarter of that, then it would be a distinct possibility.

[RDY_2_Carve]

Tramway and Indian School...

Right behind Hinkle there are some apts and a road that leads right to the ditch. You can't miss it!

I'll be there Sunday sometime. I'm sure you'll be at SF though...

Your T-Board works fine in the ditch (I've rode mine there and it's fine). Just requires you to be a little more attentive than a normal longboard.

Hit me up...Let's ride!!

[lonerider]

Yeah, it is like $1700 w/o a room, and a full $2k with one. Worthy of note, that doesn't include little tidbits like say, oh, you know, food, airfaire, etc. So the grand total for 5 days of snowboarding on the glacier is probably closer to $2500.

The prices have shot up - it was only like $1300 8 years ago. However I would like correct you in that High Cascade does include food (you go out to decent restaurants every night), transportation (High Cascade is unique in that it is only a 10-15 minutes shuttle ride to Timberline), demo equipment (you can try virtually any major brand board, bindings or boots), and I'm pretty sure it's 6 days of snowboarding, not 5. There is also access to a skatepark, trampolines (I believe) and you can go wakeboarding or rafting one of the days.

To be realistic, there is no way it would ever be as cheap as you say. I mean think about the daily costs.

Food and Lodging - say $100 a night

Lift ticket - $50

Full day of private instruction - $150 (?)

Transportation - $20

Private Terrain Park - $30 (?)

Add that up that's $350 a day... times six days that's $2100... For it to be a third of the cost, you would be paying $30 for lodging AND food, $14 for a lift ticket, $50 for a full day of private instruction, $7 for a shuttle and perhaps you could ride a public park.

So yes, it is rather expensive and not for everyone... but for freestyle, there is nothing better than to session a single well-built jump or rail and while High Cascade is not the only place to do it. It is one place where you can get all of this and an pro-level instructor to teach you (although pro riders are not always the best teachers... I think they still try to get the "teacher-pros"). You might not be able to do a 540... but you probably could do a 360 (off a very small jump). Some of the kids there can barely turn, but they can throw backflips and frontflips and rodeos. Not that I would recommend learning these tricks over basic snowboarding and carving... I'm saying that learning freestyle tricks is about practice, correction/adjustment and more practice - and you don't have to be an amazing to start learning them.

There are many great carvers here who can't even do a 180 off a average size jump, that's not because they aren't great riders... it's because it doesn't interest them and they haven't practiced it (so paying any money for instruction is not worth it for them) However, if freestyle riding does interest you, then you should make an effort to practice it (more than a few runs through the park at the end of the day). It sounds like you are already getting in some good freestyle sessions right now though. I haven't gone in about 6 years, but I plan to go either this summer or next.

[Guest Bamboo_Girl]

Hey lonerider!

I hear and respect what you are saying, as well as the points you outlined.

So as to clarify a bit...

I'm not so much saying that high cascade or pro-ride or jump camp, etc are basically robbing people per se. Rather it is more that to me, as an individual, I just feel the $2k+ is better spent on other things. Obviously what I think is a good use of 2 grand (or 20 dollars for that matter!), is going to be completely personal as opposed to others. Not so much a right or wrong as it is just, what works for you, me, etc. A summer trip to Mongolia or Patagonia is simply more appealing for me!

You would agree with me on that much, yes? ;)

As for the whole camp philosophy itself, maybe it comes down to learning styles. Mind you, I'm not certain of the answer but I'll put it out there.

Is the best way of learning a new skill to be immersed in it? A more gradual approach? Shorter time frame? Longer time frame? That could be an individual thing as well. Are 5 consecutive all-day private lessons in one week, more useful than say, 8 hours of lessons a week for a month?

Also I'd like to toss out the point of can a person, particularly someone new, learn new skills over summer, after not riding for several months, and then use them again, after not riding for months?

That someone advanced could, I believe is true, but I'm not entirely certain that for someone who is a rank novice like me, that it would be possible.

Bar none, I'm definitely interested in freestyle!

I got into jibbing as soon as I felt comfortable on the board. Then I tried carving and it certainly is cool but I find a rather noticeable caveat with it. Rather than just being able to go to the park, wait my turn, and comfortably practice my skills, carving is a little more (for me) specific in terms of runs, room, etc.

Runs obviously, that you have to share with scores of people, skiers, etc...some with no margin for error, others who have precious little skill. Oftentimes, it just feels complicated, whereas the park, to me, is much more straightforward.

I've gathered that you are a freestyle aficionado, so I certainly am interested in your opinion (and anyone else who can offer insight here).

[Rob Stevens]

Why don't you just go to Whistler for a week and freeride?

Bike park (or one of the many abandoned xc loops) in the morning and glacier in the afternoon, or any combination of the two. You could even 4-by up to Blacktusk and hike for some summer slush. That's a mission.

If you're just starting, you likely don't need any structure... just mileage. Take some friends, too. It's way better with friends.

Philfell: Is Pro-Ride a "total rip-off" because there is no hardbooting, or because of the program? If your claim is the latter, you'll wanna back that **** up, sport. The product they put on the snow is well-respected and their coach / trainers are some of the best communicators I've ever had the pleasure of riding with. This is not to say that it's not costly, but this is snowboarding, after all... An expensive sport, if you want to do it right. Having said that, it seems to me that at your prices, you and Pogue are giving it away (Especially at Copper. $600 for 5 days with lodging??!! Do you run up the hill, or do you get to ride the lifts?). I bet if you went to $1000, you'd still fill the boat AND if your coaching was good, have people leaving with a smile. $200 a day for top-flite coaching is dick.

There are also programs that make High Cascade / Pro-Ride / WSSC / Camp of Champs, ect, look like a bargain hunters dream. How about "Non-Stop" from the UK? $25,000 Can. for 11 weeks and those folks leave RAVING about how much value they got for their money (Their coaches are pretty good, too).

[lonerider]

Hey lonerider!

So as to clarify a bit...

A summer trip to Mongolia or Patagonia is simply more appealing for me!

You would agree with me on that much, yes? ;)

Is the best way of learning a new skill to be immersed in it? A more gradual approach? Shorter time frame? Longer time frame? That could be an individual thing as well. Are 5 consecutive all-day private lessons in one week, more useful than say, 8 hours of lessons a week for a month?

Also I'd like to toss out the point of can a person, particularly someone new, learn new skills over summer, after not riding for several months, and then use them again, after not riding for months?

Right, part of the reason why I haven't being going to High Cascade the past bunch of years is that while it's a great camp, I've been interested in doing other things with my time and money even though I still love freestyle.

I'm not quite sure if I understood you question, but I'll say that repetition is key. So when working on a trick, practice it and nothing else. So the ideal learning situation is to hike the rail, pipe, or jump again and again - so there is nothing on you mind in between - that will really let you get comfortable with a particular jump or rail. It's also important to get outside advice to point out technique issues that you main not realize you have... video review is very useful here as is expert advice. On top of that, being able to ride consecutive days as it has been proven that your muscle memory improves when you sleep (it's a cognitive psychology thing, I can cite studies if you really want to know). This is the type of learning environment a camp like High Cascade provides you, although you could definitely do it yourself with a bit of planning and effort.

I'm not sure what you mean 8 works of lesson a week for a month. If you mean you go up for 2 days each weekend, 4 hours of lessons a day, for 4 weeks out of the month. That is very helpful, but I would say this is less helpful than the all-out lesson for a single week because of the benefits of working stuff on consecutive days. I mean, the moment you wake up on the third day, you can visualize that jump and that trick while eating breakfast. Compare that to having a whole week of work, school, whatever that has been distracting you in the meantime, then you could to pull on your gear, "warm up", and all that before you can get started. This assumes that you are physically able to snowboard and hike for 5-6 days straight and that you don't injury yourself. This also for short term, I would not recommend an intensive training regimen for say an entire month (we all need breaks) - but a week is not very long. Key thing is to NOT GET HURT!

There is some loss of practice with it being in the summer and you not riding for a while... but in the scheme of things, think of how rusty you get with you skills have not riding for six months instead of three and three?

As for whether a beginner can get better at it... I think I only had like 40 days of riding before my first camp and I learned a lot. I would suggest that you be able to control you speed and direction (mean real control... not like you can sort of stop when you want to) and obviously being able to to small jumps is good, but you don't need much more. The key thing for virtually all jumps and rails is having the properly speed and approach angle and so you will learn how to judge how much speed you need for thing - that is a basic prerequistic to doing any trick.

[Rob Stevens]

If it's only half days, that # makes sense. If they were full days, I'd stand by my comment about "giving it away". My bad.

Just having said the guy was worth a G for a week aknowledges he must have skills as a coach. I can see that in his posts.

As for him being the best trainer here... well, I don't know. All I can do is read what people say. That leaves alot of gaps (namely all the "in-person" stuff). I know you know the man, but you can't say something like "Phils the best coach here" nor can he say "Pro-Ride is a total rip-off" if you haven't been out with, say, Lonerider (who sounds pretty sharp) or if Phil hasn't gone to Pro-Ride.

[trailertrash]

billy, meet jay. jay, meet billy. you two hug and make up. there is room for both of you on this forum. both of you bring value to this forum that is much needed. the season just ended, it is too early for this stuff to be starting.

now back to our regularly scheduled board breaking/builder bashing threads...

[Rob Stevens]

Hey, 'Trash, don't worry about it. Until the server melts, there's plenty of room on this forum for everyone.

I think it would be a good idea to go back to the original question, where BG asked about summer camps, with a bent towards FS. Someone who wasn't reading her question suggested Phils camp in SA, so Phil gave his dates.

Like alot of these threads, it seemed like there were only a few people actually engaging the thread starter, taking the time to answer her questions. Because of that, I think she might have a better idea of what she wants to do now.

If you didn't bother to read her thread, it means you're not a very good "internet coach".

When you use the FIS alpine yardstick (something apparently not that important to the thread starter) Phil is the most current, no doubt. The problem is when you drop the "best coach on here" bomb, you DO denigrate riders posting with vast experience, who have chosen other paths than high-end alpine. I think once Phil saw BG's post about her having no interest in hardboots (for now) he left this thread. Other people continued, with some rather good feedback. This should tell you that they are a better coaching match for her needs.

A technical match, along with personality are two of the biggest factors going when it comes to Long-term Athlete Development (the ol' LTAD). If you're coaching badminton and I want to learn tennis, we should not get together. There is also the personality side of things to consider. For example, the two alpine coaches in Canada, with the greatest athlete success (so far), that being an Olympic gold and an Olympic top 15 are both no longer active. Both Legge and Hrab have moved on, but that has more to do with factors outside of on-snow training.

The point is, there are a few, maybe here, who never went into the competitive stream for their own reasons. This does not mean they stopped watching or learning and developing skills useful for imparting that knowledge. Throw a technical match and personality into the equasion and you'll find that there are far better matches for BG than Phil... like Lonerider.

Bordy, you're absolutely right about Phil and alpine. It's obvious that if you want top coaching in high-end alpine, you should listen to him and take one of his (shockingly inexpensive) camps. If you're a parent on this site, you should probably consider aiming them on a path that might wind up with them being on his team. As for the rest of your comments, to say that if they're not active, or known by you (that comment was a real gut buster) that they're not viable, well, that makes you a guy who walks around with his eyes closed.

There can't be life on other planets, because these so-called "aliens" never came to a race I was at (That's rapier sarcasm, VLAD)

P.S. VLAD: Maybe I should have changed my fork oil too, then the dive'y buggers wouldn't have put me on my shoulder at 40.

P.P.S. Bamboo Girl: You should still go freeride in Whistler this summer. Camp out, bring your bike and buy half-day passes. It can be cheap and fun, depending on how you play it.

Digging the couch, with Bordy;

Rob.

[Snowman]

Just when you thought everything was going smooth!!!! No god damit Im the best there ever was. Isnt the internet beautiful, everyone can just blaze away. It seems recently that the boiling point has been lowered and people are pegging the meter. Opinions are strong among this group but sometimes we should just sit back take a breath and say F*** it. Keep in mind that people come here for infomation and advice and some of theses people are kids. I personaly think that some of the rethoric on this site goes way over the top. Everyone RELAX!!!

Think Snow

Mark