Interesting article of the birth of Snowboarding

[Jrobb]

Interesting article (long read but part I've included here) about snowboarding getting its wings. Oddly carving came first...whoda thunk it. The Article is an interview with Mike Olson of GNU/LibTech that's here

Sorry the long read, but it's good stuff.

Mike Olson "...Yeah, it actually is. It’s funny because a lot of people aren’t aware of that. I remember a few years ago hearing about how some snowboard companies, like Scott were going to start bringing parabolic sidecut to snowboards now--taking it from skiing. I was like, ‘wait a second are they that far out of it that they think skiing came up with the super-deep sidecuts?’ There are so many new people that work for the (snowboard) companies that they are like, ‘wow we’ve got to look at the ski industry.’

I started doing the deep sidecut in the early eighties. Back then all the snowboards that were out on the market (which were Sims, Barfoot, Burton, some Snowtech, and Slicker) all had sidecuts that didn’t resemble anything you see today. The boards looked like they had a surfboard nose. The sidecut was done the wrong way. They go into an hourglass shape and then a flat rail line all the way down.

The designers really were just drawing things. I actually met people, like Chris Karol, who worked at the Burton factory back then and I’d go, “So how’d you guys come up with the sidecut?” And they just literally (Karol worked at Sims and Burton. He would go back and forth, go to Sims in the summer and ride for Burton in the winter.) He was like, “Well they’re just kind of random.” They’d all just draw lines, eye them, and say, “How does this line look? It looks aesthetic.” And, that was about the thought into it.

Ironically, my boards looked the least like a surfboard--mine looked like a big fat monoski back then. There was a company called Bahne Monoskis on the market back then. And, I had the only shop in Washington that would sell my board. The shop was called The BikeFactory and doubled as a skateboard/bike shop that carried some snowboards. He (the owner, Bob Barci) just kept saying, “That’s a monoski--get that monoski out of here," while I was trying to explain how it worked.

Ironically, of the group of everyone making snowboards back then I was the only one, as far as I know, shaping surfboards to survive as a living. I really knew surf theory and ironically my snowboards looked the least like a surfboard. The curves on a surfboard are for totally different purposes. The long needle nose on a surfboard is there for paddling. This was the part I think the other guys building snowboards didn’t get. They’d make these long narrow noses and I’d say, “What? You’re not going to paddle your snowboard too often, so you don’t really need that.”

My theory came more off skis--the concept of making the sidecut go the right direction. I thought why not try a super-deep sidecut and experiment with it. Since you have two feet and all that weighting on one board, I thought, you have twice as much weight as you have on a pair of skis--thus you have the ability to press out more sidecut.

Also, I really didn’t want a board that if you have a really straight sidecut (like skis at the time) the tail gets really swishy, really washy. Since we were trying to make it feel like a surfboard and a skateboard, my theory was put a super, super-deep sidecut from your backfoot on back (to the tail of the board). Then it feels like a surfboard fin--almost. When you put it on edge it really bites behind your foot. Then you put a moderately deep sidecut in front of your foot so it’s a little more forgiving on the entry than the exit of the turn--because you have less control coming into a turn more control coming out.

All of my first sidecuts were--in the early, early days--what’s now called progressive sidecuts or dual radius. People have all kinds of words for them now but basically it was two radiuses mixed.

When you came up with these new shapes and sidecuts, did people start instantly gravitating to it?

No, not at first. They didn’t at all, even people that I kept building boards for up here kept going, “Why don’t you just try one that’s … normal.”

Avalanche was the next brand that actually had a sidecut. Their board was modeled off a ski, with more of a mellow sidecut, but it went in the right direction. And, so we were the only two brands that first had (and were marketing) a board with sidecut and no fins. I had people going, “Why don’t you try mellowing out the sidecut?” And, I refused to do it. I just didn’t want to do it.

A few years later, Pete actually made one and tried it with mellower sidecut--and we took it to Europe. I remember I kept going, “I don’t know, I don’t know, it just feels so good with a deep sidecut.” So, we took it over to Europe and it felt horrible with the mellower sidecut (laughs). It just felt kind of swishy, and tail loose. It didn’t really feel like a skateboard or a surfboard.

My theory back then was that I was trying to get (snowboarding) to feel like riding a skateboard or a surfboard--where to do a 360 was a trick. The other boards on the market, that’s all they did is 360s--doing a carve was a trick. (laughs)

So anyway, when I went into that snowboard shop (The BikeFactory) that existed back then, and the owner (Barci) was going, “Get that monoski out of here.” (laughing)

I was trying to explain to him my concept, saying, “Listen you know how a skateboard and a surfboard is really carvy and it’s a trick to do a 360--like it’s really hard to do. And on a snowboard that you have now it’s a trick to do a carve…”

He just said, “Mr. Gnu get that monoski out of here. I want my snowboards to slide sideways.” I was like, “Wow.” That was the mentality. Since the three or four other brands had snowboards that were all swishy and slidy--that’s the way it was supposed to be.

After that I did a brochure--the one with me and Pete on it. It was my first attempt ever at a brochure. It was a four-color brochure (one of the first ones ever, I think.) Burton and Gnu were the only companies that had four-color brochures--I had no money, but I knew a printer that gave me like a year to pay for it.

In the brochure, you open it up and it explains a carve. It says, “This is not a snowboard.” That’s one of the first thing it says (laughing). We didn’t call it Gnu snowboards. I was denouncing snowboards because I was like wow, “I guess snowboarders want to slide sideways.”

So, the brochure shows a cartoon of conventional snowboard--it shows this guy with a really wide stance on a needle nose snowboard. He kind of has a Neanderthal-looking head, a big forehead, and is just kind of Neanderthal-looking guy. It shows him sliding sideways--a cartoon of tail slides out in the really wide track.

And then the brochure shows our board. It says Gnu, shows a modern shape, and it shows a guy making little pinline carves. We were explaining the concept of a carve! At that point--that was 1986--the word carve wasn’t used in snowboarding. I remember running into other snowboarders heckling us saying, “what’s this carve thing?” We were pushing the concept of the carve.

And then the Euros got pictures of it … we ran an ad in ISM Magazine that showed the ‘functional shape, functional carve.’ That was our first ad. There was a shadow on the board because the shot was taken from above at Mt. Hood.

I think we were one of the first groups of snowboarders to go to Mt. Hood because the lifties didn’t know what the things we were riding were. But, anyway, the shot in the ad in ISM had a shadow in it that made the nose of the board look really, really, really blunt.

All of a sudden Hooger Booger (which was José Fernandes, the Swiss guy) came a year later with these boards with really snubby noses. The noses were only about two inches long and looked like a picture from the side top angle of our board--like they missed interpreted it. I was like, “How’d they come up with that idea?” Then I looked at it again and it was exactly like picture of our board from the ad with a shadow across it.

But, the thing is, then they started pushing carving. The whole Euro-carve movement came out a year-and-a-half later. Everything went neon. Burton started putting out videos that were famous for Jean Nerva saying, “You carve, you carve, you carve ... no slide.”

All of a sudden everyone was saying, “Yeah! The Euros have this new movement called carving.” We were going, “Wait a second-- we’ve been saying that for about three and a half years now.”

After that the sidecut thing went off the hook? It did. Then everyone jumped on it."

[Guest Tim Tuthill]

Frank Morales jump in here!! Frank and Terry English were with Sims and Barfoot from the git go!! I have a book Titled "Snowboarding Know How "published in 1992 Hmmm???

[tahoetrencher]

I wish I still had my GNU Raceroom with the pink and purple cow poop. It had a cool DEVO-looking scientist dude with a beaker on the nose and the flex pattern of a 2X10.

PS I think both Barefoot and Avalanche were invented here in Tahoe.

So was the half-pipe.

[RJ-PS]

It's interesting when you get around a bunch of these guys. Because no one believed they were doing anything that would result in what snowboarding has become, there wasn't really any documentation, just memories with some dates/events/marketing materials to back it up.

Mike certainly has had his hand in a number of innovations, but there were a number of other innovators that were working on these things simultaneously around the world. It's just that since the internet was not publicly available they were only able to connect as they saw each other at shows and events.

It would be mind-blowing to get all the big dogs from the beginning of the sport in a room together and get them to try to piece together a real history from a few different perspectives.

[tex1230]

I still have an inner-course in my storage room - that was by far the best race/carve board of the era...I would kill for a modern lib tech/gnu carver. they have always had the magic.

[Jrobb]

It's interesting when you get around a bunch of these guys. Because no one believed they were doing anything that would result in what snowboarding has become, there wasn't really any documentation, just memories with some dates/events/marketing materials to back it up.

Mike certainly has had his hand in a number of innovations, but there were a number of other innovators that were working on these things simultaneously around the world. It's just that since the internet was not publicly available they were only able to connect as they saw each other at shows and events.

It would be mind-blowing to get all the big dogs from the beginning of the sport in a room together and get them to try to piece together a real history from a few different perspectives.

I'd pay money to see that, similar to the actor's guild wiht the cast of Monty Python. I found this article after reading a couple posts on Freecarve from you and PSR...centered around the 3d/4x4 deal. That one anecdote from Harry, said tons about the goals of industry leaders. Then someone sent me this article. For some reason history about my favorite sports has always been tons more interesting than work history...not sure why.

J

ps. just saw this many of you probably already know much of the timeline but...parts 1-3 http://expn.go.com/snb/s/snowboard_timeline_60_70.html

[philw]

http://expn.go.com/snb/s/snowboard_timeline_60_70.html

Interesting, if rather US-centric. Kind of half a story really, but there you go.

[Jrobb]

http://expn.go.com/snb/s/snowboard_timeline_60_70.html

Interesting, if rather US-centric. Kind of half a story really, but there you go.

Not difinitive by any means typical US style ...US and the rest of the world...right :rolleyes: .

ANyone have a a timeline paralleling that for Europe?

J

[RJ-PS]

hey Jrobb,

All it takes is some beer (real beer, not water) and these guys can tell stories that go on for days. The real leaders of the industry from back in the day talk very fondly of each other.

One thing I found very interesting is that there are riders who never entered competitions that have spanked some of the worlds best in informal comps. Some of them could just care less about competing and just do it for the stoke of riding. I listened to some conversations from owners of snowboard companies both Euros and Americans about Reto Lamm that said he is simply unbelievable, a legend.

You just gotta wonder how many others like him are out there.....

[carvedog]

GNU Vertigo 162 was my first board evah. Sweet ride, but that pink swirl nose ( or tail ) would make you dizzy if you looked at it.

hey Jrobb,

I listened to some conversations from owners of snowboard companies both Euros and Americans about Reto Lamm that said he is simply unbelievable, a legend.

You just gotta wonder how many others like him are out there.....

Like my buddy RD, in Crested Butte, who threw, huge, slow motion airs and always, always, stomped the landing. He refused to set up for photos, "Thats for posers" was his only comment. I got one great pic of him, just by screaming down the run with my camera out enough to get in front of him.

If he wouldn't pose for pics, you can imagine how he felt about comps.

[Jrobb]

hey Jrobb,

All it takes is some beer (real beer, not water) and these guys can tell stories that go on for days. The real leaders of the industry from back in the day talk very fondly of each other.

One thing I found very interesting is that there are riders who never entered competitions that have spanked some of the worlds best in informal comps. Some of them could just care less about competing and just do it for the stoke of riding. I listened to some conversations from owners of snowboard companies both Euros and Americans about Reto Lamm that said he is simply unbelievable, a legend.

You just gotta wonder how many others like him are out there.....

It's likely the case in just about any athletic endeavor. The people who get the credit often aren't the originators...or even the pioneers sometimes.

BTW, I got the boots and they fit puuurfect. Just waiting for my bindigns now. All we have is pow for the weekend...darn. The Osin will get a workout for sure.

J

[Jrobb]

GNU Vertigo 162 was my first board evah. Sweet ride, but that pink swirl nose ( or tail ) would make you dizzy if you looked at it.

Like my buddy RD, in Crested Butte, who threw, huge, slow motion airs and always, always, stomped the landing. He refused to set up for photos, "Thats for posers" was his only comment. I got one great pic of him, just by screaming down the run with my camera out enough to get in front of him.

If he wouldn't pose for pics, you can imagine how he felt about comps.

I grew up surfing with guys like your buddy. Of course that was before waterproof disposeable cameras so you'd have half a car loan in the waves with you...not for the amateurs .

J