Guest apocalypsem3 Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Hey everyone. I am new to alpine snowboarding and I am very interested in trying it. I've been using soft setup for about 8 years... and all these alpine terms are kind of new to me. Hence, I have couple questions for you guys. I was looking at binding reviews and realized there are two types: strap-ins and step-ins. What are the pros and cons of each type? I think I read somewhere step-ins are stiffer and etc... not sure though. I know people in soft setup world are not too fond of step ins... but is it different for alpine boarders? Another question is between Catek Olympic series and TD2, which is the better binding? Both got raving reviews... so I wanted to hear your opinions. What are the differences between two manufacturers? Thanks alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Hard boot step-ins have none of the supposed disadvantages of soft-boot step-ins. They are a little stiffer laterally than non step-ins, and possibly are less likely to inadvertantly release (a rare event anyway). The most common type is the Intec system. They are very convenient, and work with just about all boots. Bombers vs Cateks? I've never ridden Cateks, but the general impression is that Cateks give you infinite configurability with respect to lifting and canting, but at the price of greater complexity in the way they are set up. Bombers provide somewhat less configurability (but still enough for just about all folks), but with the advantage of an extremely simple setup. The Bombers also look cooler. :D Check out the <a href="http://www.alpinecarving.com/">Carvers Almanac</a>. It'll have answers to every hardbooting question you can think of, and a couple of thousand more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest apocalypsem3 Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 any more opinion on Step-in vs. standard bail system?.. pros and cons.. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Houghton Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 A few people have found that the stepin responds differently heelside to toeside - obviously they are in the minority, others don't notice the difference. Cons for stepin - if the release cable breaks, you have a problem. A few people have also reported that they came out of the binding a turn or two down the hill, again the majority does not have this issue. Pros for clamp in regular style - easy to tell if you are "in" or not. Works with ski boots too, not just Intec compatible snowboard boots. I've used both, it's what appeals to you personally, the techies seem to like stepin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Regarding coming out of step-ins - that's always because they haven't engaged fully, to avoid it just check to make sure you're in. Big advantage to step-ins - if you ride anywhere there is a lot of flats, you can click out to skate along, then step back in while gliding as soon as it starts to drop off a little. AFAIK this is the main reason for step-ins. You can clip in while gliding with regular bindings but it's more work and not as smooth, plus the toe piece has to be carefully controlled so it doesn't dig in and stop you. Also if you ride with skiers, they're faster to get in (step-in, duh) off the lift, so nobody waits for you. People who are handy with the toe-clip bindings are nearly as fast though. Bottom line for me - I'll never go back to regular bindings again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 apocalypsem3, Here's another thread on that topic: http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?threadid=1640 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tb Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 I never thought I would switch over to step ins, but, having done so, I would NEVER go back. They are more responsive than the standard bail bindings available. That, and above all convienent. just to be able to step in without having to bend over. And then as stated above, if you get stuck in a flat, just pop out, skate across the flat, and step back in. I have even found that when I stop along the side of the trail to wait for people, I will pop out and stand in a much more comfortable position while waiting. All in all, step ins are the way to go. As for the two major complaints of cables breaking and comming out. Both problems can be fixed simultaneously. 1) Lube your cables and heels annualy. 2) make sure there is no snow under your heel before you step in 3) when releasing, make sure you are not putting excessive force on the pins. Have your wieght neutral on your foot and the amount of force needed to release the binding will be MUCH much less. ~tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 The Swoard guys are saying the traditional bails provide much more lateral softness than step-ins, allowing for more smooth riding. I suppose for race carvers, the stiffness of the SI's is a good thing but not if you intend to eurocarve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 How do they come up with traditional bail providing more lateral stiffness?? The way an intec heel attaches with the binding is as direct of an interface that has been put into production yet. Sorry, for some reason when I was skimming through this thread I read stiffness, instead of 'softness'. This is correct, disregard what I've said above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tb Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Phil, read it again.. . . they said "provides more lateral softness." Guess its just difference in oppinion about what you like. I would rather control the stiffness of my boot rather than the interface between my boot and binding. I find it to be more controlable and rebeatable. But those guys most certianly do rip. I dont think anyone can take that away from them! ~tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy S. Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Careful about that reference to the extremecarving guys. They apparently made their own bails for the TD. I was stunned by their reference to breaking bails, but that would explain it. Fin just needs to expedite those Ti bails for EC lunatics. I love my step-ins. I did find that after about 120 days of use, I needed to replace my heels. Fortunately i had a spare pair. Yes, I lubed the cables and mechanism over the summer. something just went wrong with both of them at almost the same time. They weren't pulling far enough in any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 I have two sets of Intec bindings (TD1 and TD2) and I'm still iffy about them. Part of my concern has to do with the fact that I sheared off one of my heel pins last year. It was on the front foot so it had nothing to do with the forces of stepping in and out. I think it was just metal fatigue. That, plus the cable breakage problem, prompted me to always carry an extra heel assembly in the car. I watch guys with regular bails and I just don't see it being that inconvenient. I see them as being a lot simpler with less to go wrong. Plus, you can use any boot with it. BTW, notice the angles at which the EC guys ride. What they are looking for is lateral movement, not just front to back. That sort of softness is pretty hard to build into a boot since it's not entirely dependent on the hinge. That's why I think it has to come from the binding. What I would love to see is a thicker elastomer ring that gives you more play with the understanding that the ring is a consumable item that must be replaced occasionally due to wear and compression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 If you ride with your feet canted out (to spread your knees), I found that it was a lot easier to get into the Intecs I demoed than clip into my regular TD1s. I did find that the Intecs were noticeably stiffer laterally. That can be good or bad depending on the angles you run and how you like your bindings to feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 I busted a heel pin a while back - year before last, I think. It was my first or second day on those heels. They were replaced under warranty and my current heels have ~45 days on them and have been through much worse. How old were the heels that you had the failure with? My guess - based on a sample size of only 4 heels - is that they either break early or not at all. I'm wondering if your experience was the same. I like the Intec system, and have another pair of Intec binders coming with my next board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 The Intec heel that broke was used and a throw-in with a pair of TD1s. I have no idea how old but I was told only a couple of days of riding. I took them apart and lubed them before I used them so I know there was no existing damage (that I could see). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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