Introducing myself... Couple questions..

[pebu]

Hi, I'm Ben. I've been a softbooter for 8-ish years now. I'm not one of them punk softbooters who spend all day sittin at the top of the park waiting for my turn. I'll go in the park now and then and it's fun, but I like the speed and feeling of the carve. Havin a little problem with toe overhang. So starting saturday morning (oh, i can't wait) I'm gonna try with my bindings at 45 and 30. I have some rossignol stepins by the way. Lookin to get into the sport..

Question A: I'm about 5' 11" (calcs out to about 180cm) in stocking feet and weigh a whopping 145-150ish.. I ride a pretty short and very flimsy (I just love the board for some reason, but not at all opposed to going hard, given the right board...) rossignol 152. What length alpine board should I be looking for? (IE, what are the guidlines for alpine boards?) I'm gonna be riding mostly groomed/hardpacked/ice as I live in Michigan, not to much pow. Keep in mind that I'm a pretty strong snowboarder, but at the same time I'm not a real strong person... (I like the short board cause I can whip it around so fast.) So what says everyone?

Question 2: As previously stated, I live in Michigan... Northwest lower peninsula to be more precise. Are there any hardbooters on the forum out there from this area that might mentor someone fresh to hardbooting? Maybe a little demo before I go out and buy some cheap piece of junk? I board at Crystal Mountain, but I guess I wouldn't be all opposed to traveling a bit on the weekends.

As time goes on I'm feeling more and more comfortable on this forum.. Time to eat, later.

Thanks

Ben

[kjl]

So starting saturday morning (oh, i can't wait) I'm gonna try with my bindings at 45 and 30. I have some rossignol stepins by the way. Lookin to get into the sport..

When I ride softies I ride fairly stiff boots (Salomon Malamutes) and very stiff bindings (Catek Freerides) and I still have a hard time getting the leverage I need at high angles. 45/30 is probably about the limit before the toesides completely give out - I went up to about 45/30 and then settled back down to 39/21 for my soft setup, which is high enough to push the heelside in OK and low enough on the back foot to push the toeside in.

Question A: What length alpine board should I be looking for? (IE, what are the guidlines for alpine boards?) I'm gonna be riding mostly groomed/hardpacked/ice as I live in Michigan, not to much pow. Keep in mind that I'm a pretty strong snowboarder, but at the same time I'm not a real strong person... (I like the short board cause I can whip it around so fast.) So what says everyone?

I don't think strength has much to do with the size of the alpine board you should get - I definitely notice board length when softbooting, as of course longer boards are harder to jump turn, kick the tail out, etc.. But on an alpine board you ideally are just leaning the board over to initiate turns, so the higher moment of inertia of a longer board just doesn't really matter. It will matter a bit when you are initially just learning and when you need to get through that mogul field or navigate the crowds on the bunny slope, but shouldn't be a fact when actually carving.

I don't know what the conditions are like where you are, but if you have wide open slopes people like to get longer boards (170+) with longer sidecuts (12+) to let it rip. If you have narrow, icy, crowded slopes, people seem to like shorter, narrow boards with short sidecuts (everybody loves that Madd 158 ;) )

[Jack M]

Hi Ben. I'd say your first alpine board should be somewhere between 158 and 163. Check out our Welcome Center for info on getting started with the sport. Before you try carving on a hard setup, make sure that you can do The Norm on your soft setup first.

[pebu]

Thanks all.

Jack and kjl, that's exactly what I was looking for. I was kinda thinkin 170 to help dampen the chop, but Crystal Mtn just isn't big enough to justify it. NOt to mention crowded. 160s-ish sound pretty good to me.

I can do the norm easy. Like I said I'm not one of those punk boarders :).. I only skid when I need to, and going down cheers or buck I can leave a thin trail, with the exception of my stupid toes and heels.. I can even experience the weightlessness and getting air on the crossovers. That's why I love it..

My boots are pretty stiff. No they're not hardboots, but they're rossignols that have the studs off both sides of each foot. I think that helps alot on the lateral stiffness more than something like the k2 clicker would. I'm still gonna have to tough it out with my ankles a bit. But like I said, this saturday will be first run, so we'll see how it goes.

Also I'd like to add on that I'm looking for a board with a pretty tight sidecut, evidently ~160cm :).. I'm not particularly looking to buy new... Any ideas? Thanks for the help again..

Ben

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you're looking to start cheap, there's an Alp 163 for sale in the classifieds. But if you're already a strong soft boot carver you might want something a little stiffer than that.

[Pow]

If you're looking to start cheap, there's an Alp 163 for sale in the classifieds. But if you're already a strong soft boot carver you might want something a little stiffer than that.

he says he likes his noodly board, so soft might be just what he's looking for:biggthump

[pebu]

I do like my noodly board, but I think I have to graduate myself from that. Being a light guy it might be to my advantage to have a little bit more wobbly board. (only a little bit...) My board now is probably so noodly because it's so broken down... You can see the part of the edge that's under the ptex. Many years of hard riding. I think I'm goign to retire that board and take my dad's 156. Exact same board just 4 cm longer.

But thanks for the tip, I'll check that out.

[Pat Donnelly]

IMO - great board for Crystal!

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=13259

Post up your e-mail on your profile.

[FTA2R]

you'll love hardbooting. just remember a fwe things:

1. everyone has an opinion on almost everything

2. first few hours (or first day or two) may be frustrating- don't give up

3. as other's have mentioned, proceed with caution re: jacking angles up too much on softie board. it'll feel different for sure. consider jacking angles up gradually. hardboots will feel diff't.

4. i'll see you my alp 157.5 if your interested (email me).

[Derf]

I don't think strength has much to do with the size of the alpine board you should get - I definitely notice board length when softbooting, as of course longer boards are harder to jump turn, kick the tail out, etc.. But on an alpine board you ideally are just leaning the board over to initiate turns, so the higher moment of inertia of a longer board just doesn't really matter. It will matter a bit when you are initially just learning and when you need to get through that mogul field or navigate the crowds on the bunny slope, but shouldn't be a fact when actually carving.

I don't know what the conditions are like where you are, but if you have wide open slopes people like to get longer boards (170+) with longer sidecuts (12+) to let it rip. If you have narrow, icy, crowded slopes, people seem to like shorter, narrow boards with short sidecuts (everybody loves that Madd 158 ;) )

A 170+ with a 12+ m sidecut may be a bit long for someone coming to hardboots. You have to go quite fast to turn a 12 m board and 170 may be long in an emergency stop/turn when you're not used to it, especially with high angles.

From what I read, a Madd 158 may be a bit for a newcomer to hardboots (though I never rode one).

[kjl]

Yeah, I agree. The Donek Axis or Prior 4WD in the 160-something length seem like universally good introductions to hardbooting. I was just thinking that if he's already carving his softboots that he might "graduate" from those fairly fast.

I was a passable softboot carver when I first picked up hardbooting and wanted something a little bigger/faster than my 167 Axis after just a few months (I picked up a used 171 Donek FC that was definitely more to my liking).

Pebu: I disagree about being light and having wobbly boards ;) I'm lighter than you at ~135 (well, 145 since Thanksgiving :D) and I definitely feel more stable, more snappy, and generally more in control on a stiffer board (hardbooting or softbooting).

[pebu]

Pebu: I disagree about being light and having wobbly boards ;) I'm lighter than you at ~135 (well, 145 since Thanksgiving :D) and I definitely feel more stable, more snappy, and generally more in control on a stiffer board (hardbooting or softbooting).

Interesting...

Does a hard board not prevent you from taking full advantage of the sidecut? Seems a soft board would more easily conform the sidecut to the hill..

Edit: That may kinda sound condescending. I don't mean it to be. It's meant to be a legitimate question.. :)

[kjl]

It didn't sound condescending at all till you pointed it out :p

Yeah, the soft board bends easier to meet the hill, but it seems like even my 135 lbs are more than enough to bend the stiffest board I have yet tried. If you think about it, 135-145 pounds is light for a person but it's actually quite a lot of weight. (Imagine hanging 10 or 11 bowling balls from your bindings).

You may have less leverage than me at bending boards, however: at 5'11 your stance width is probably much wider than mine. I'm 5'6 and ride with what's now I suppose considered a narrow stance, so I have lots of leverage to decamber the board.

[Sinecure]

Where's NMU Alpine Boarder? NMU must be around you. He should have some stuff you could try out.

Paging NMU Alpine Boarder.

[pebu]

I'd imagine NMU boarder is goign to school at NMU... That was only about 2 hours from where I went to school, MTU, in the Upper peninsula, but unfortunately it's about 6 hours away from where I am now. Not exactly an easy commute. I have always wanted to try Mt. Marquette though, heard it was pretty good. The best boarding I've done BY FAR is Mt. Bohemia, way up in the tip of the Keeweenaw peninsula. But tha'ts not a place for long boards. That is where you take your beater board if you want to get into the woods at all. Too many trees for a long board. Anybody else go there?