Anybody doing "Extreme ski carving"?

[Fastskiguy]

I'm a ski carving maniac but I can't carve as well as some of the alpine snowboarders I've seen out west...specifically Buttermilk.

Yeah, I've "experiemented" with snowboarding, even bought a second hand alpine board to try (using my race boots, probably not the optimal setup). But I've invested a lot into my ski technique and am not sure I want to "change teams" right now.

Some of the things I've seen on these carving snowboard sites I've been able to incorporate into my skiing. Most importantly the idea of starting the turn low and extending at the top to press the skis into the snow and start the carve. Then, by being tall in the middle of the turn, I can decrease the pressure at the end when force of gravity and centripital force are pulling in the same way. Which sets me up for the next turn.

So I can't do this like the "eurocarvers" can on snowboards but I can do this with my skis to some degree. The problem is that half of my body seems to be in the way while on a snowboard you can just keep tipping over until you are grazing the snow.

What I'm hoping for is a ski community like bomber online or similar alpine snowboard sites, just for skiing instead. Hardcore carving is a little different than the raging mania of backcountry booters and rail/gap jump/halfpipe type skiing. But there doesn't seem to be many addicted to the alpine ski carve.

So far the skiing community isn't really leaping forth with ideas or suggestions so I thought I'd post here and see what you guys thought. I've been skiing long enough (31 years now) to remember the monumental change in ski designs years ago and that it was probably due to snowboard technology so it is with respect to that community that I ask.

Thanks for your comments :)

[Jack M]

Hey, you don't have to consider us "the other team". Many if not most snowboarders don't even consider us snowboarders, so, who's to say what team this is?? Also there are quite a few guys here who are avid skiers as well. I think you should give alpine snowboarding an honest go - it will improve your skiing technique! Check out our welcome center here for tips on getting/easing into the sport:

http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/welcome_center.cfm

As for carving specific ski forums, I don't know of any, but EpicSki is pretty good, they have some very tech-knowlegeable regulars there.

http://forums.epicski.com/

[AaronG]

fastskiguy, I am one who likes to carve on the skis as well as the snowboard. In my youth I raced GS on my Olin Comp GS skis as I loved the way the skis would carve the long GS turns, when I saw my first alpine boarder I knew then I had to master this type of snowboarding, I loved feeling of the carve, be it skis or snowboard. I rode the snowboard for over 9 years before skiing again. The only reason I went back to skiing is with the shaped skis, I was seeing guys laying out some great carves on skis.

I bought a pair of Rossi 9S and have a equally good time on skis vs. the carving board. I admit though, I can turn a shorter radius turn on my snowboard than my skis even thought my board has a larger sidecut radius. My board is 10.5 meter sidecut, skis are 9 meter sidecut.

I recommend jumping on a carving board, use your ski boots, just loosen up the top cuff buckle a bit. You will have to run steeper angles with ski boots vs. hard snowboard boots as the sole length is a bit longer with the binding lugs that are on the ski boots.

Also, check out this website, not only does Virus make one of the finest snowboards out there he also makes custom carving skis. They cost some dollars but well worth it. Just ask any Virus owner on this website, especially Ray!!!

www.virus-snowboards.de/

one more thing, Where do you live?? East Coast??

[BlueB]

I do both carving "tools", too. Keep your ski boots and jump from one to another with ease. Technique is more or less the same. Somehow, I find ski carving to be more physically demanding, in despite the fact that I have much more experience on skis. Yet, I though I could carve the skis until I tried alpine board... Alpine made me better ski carver too. I learned the things like total commitment to the edge(s), turning the body into the turn, dropped the poles, etc.

Soo, you are at home here...

Boris

[NateW]

I play for both teams, but I have to admit that my skiing has been falling behind my boarding for the last several years.

Most shaped skis today still have a sidecut radius in the high teens or low 20s, and it takes a ton of speed to do carves where you can lean way in, just because they don't turn tight enough (you can angulate a bit, to get them to turn a little tighter, but this complicates things needlessly). If you shop around you'll find a few models with sidecuts in the low teens or lower. I have Head Cyber 180s with 12.6 and 13.something radii, and I think that's about where the sweet spot is. If you have a lot of open space to carve in, going higher should still work (I just bought a board with a 15m sidecut that I'm looking forward to trying on uncrowded days).

What follows is a work in progress:

Usually when I see a skier carving deep, they have their outside leg almost fully extended, and their inside leg compressed a lot. Far as I can tell this is the only good way to get one's upper body down low in a carve.

Somebody posted a telemarking video here recently and it hit me that telemarking helps address what has been for me a problem with skiiing: it makes it easier to separate your front foot and back foot, which gives you a longer "platform" to "stand" on, to help keep your fore/aft balance. If you've ever tried monoskiing you know that having a tiny platform to stand on makes balancing harder; with regular ski boots there is some room to move your feet fore and aft, but it's kinda subtle; with tele skis there's a ton of room to thrust your feet forward and back ward and its a defining characteristic of the sport. (It was like an eiphany for me. I get it! That could be extra fun! Suddenly tele skiing actually looks really interesting. :) )

The upshot of all of this is that I'm going to soften up the flex of my (regular ski) boots as much as I can, and see if it helps tuck that inner leg up higher (for more inclination) and see if it helps push my outer foot forward and pull my inner foot rearward (for better fore/aft balance), and see if all of that makes it any easier to carve any deeper.

[Gleb]

carving on skis is equally as fun. I have yet to go this low on either my board or skis:

or

NateW

Somebody posted a telemarking video here recently and it hit me that telemarking helps address what has been for me a problem with skiiing: it makes it easier to separate your front foot and back foot, which gives you a longer "platform" to "stand" on, to help keep your fore/aft balance. If you've ever tried monoskiing you know that having a tiny platform to stand on makes balancing harder; with regular ski boots there is some room to move your feet fore and aft, but it's kinda subtle; with tele skis there's a ton of room to thrust your feet forward and back ward and its a defining characteristic of the sport. (It was like an eiphany for me. I get it! That could be extra fun! Suddenly tele skiing actually looks really interesting. :) )

same here! I'm considering getting a pair of teleskis this season. Can never know enough ways of getting down a hill.

[BobD]

http://www.carving-ski.de/index1.html?http://www.carving-ski.de/carving-galerie.html~inhalt

You can use babel fish for translation.

I think that once your skis get more than about 20 inches apart, it no longer looks graceful. Certainly not as graceful as alpine boards can be.

BobD

[willywhit]

I miss carving on skiis and just ordered up some Salomon Teneighty Lab CRs.Watching the kids in the park hucking big air on skiis had me itching to get back on 2 planks. I just don't feel comfortable launching big with my feet locked on a snowboard.That feeling of flying and landing in the transition is awesome. Had a dream about hucking huge the other night and couldn't resist a great deal on some new school skiis. Before snowboarding, it was all about the spread eagle, twister, helicopter, daffy, kosac and backscratcher....

I wonder if I can still throw that stuff...20 years later.

epicski.com looks good but I like to hang out with the maggots at

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3

sinecure is regular there too good comedy :lol:

also http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/index.php is good

[Ray]

Check out the Carving ski from Virus!

http://www.virus-snowboards.com/com/index.php?sub1=2&sub2=3&sub3=3

I know when Frank had Corsuch in Aspen test them during the last SES, they placed a major order right away. Another shop in Mammoth (Footloose) received a demo as well and I think they might carry them...

Some more pics:

http://www.virus-snowboards.de/de/index.php?sub1=4&sub2=3

Ray

[mr_roboteye]

I like to carve on skis as well whenever I get a chance. My favourite pair for carving that I have now are some Dynastar speed 63 178's. They have around a 17 meter radius. I don't think I want to go any tighter than that. I thought the look bindings were total s**t so I had a welding shop fill a few holes on the aluminum binding plate and had a pair of Salomon 916 team bindings mounted up.

Another pair I love are my Nordica K00's. 186's with about a 26m radius. They are the smoothest riding ski I've ever been on. Love em'

I also have one pair of Atomic 212 DH/SG's. and one pair of Atomic 217 DH boards. And that's not all. 12 pairs in all, only one set of off piste skis, all the rest are race / carve oriented.

later,

Dave R.

[Gleb]

I can't seem to find the pricing for those virus skis? Anyone know?

edit: found it. $1800 is a bit steep for me.

http://www.gorsuchltd.com/CatalogItem.aspx?ID=4041

[slopetool]

Gosh, those rippers on those Elan SCX's in the late 90's sure were ahead of the game.... Golly!!

[BDZal]

Super G skis are a lot of fun (the second picture is GS). I once had to do an emergency maneuver on mine to avoid a little girl on a merging trail, and they turned like slalom skis.

[Fastskiguy]

Yeah but you have to be really moving to get like that, way faster than you could safely go on a regular green or blue run. But with a short radius ski...say 10-13m or so...it should be possible, right? Well, that and some skillz ;)

Super G skis are a lot of fun (the second picture is GS). I once had to do an emergency maneuver on mine to avoid a little girl on a merging trail, and they turned like slalom skis.

[NateW]

The Elan SCX was totally sweet. There was a period where I didn't own skis, just rented a couple times a year, and those were my favorites for sure. They were indeed ahead of their time. :) When I went shopping for skis, I couldn't find any... but I think the Heads I got are at least as good, maybe even better.

[Guest moa]

I skied a lot in my younger years , gave it away then got into boarding.

After a couple of years doing the soft thing , I wanted to get into carving boards ,( I also got back onto the skis metron b5 ,12m radius ).

I use my Head Stratos pro hard boots on these doggies & they seem to work fine( just have to bend down to lift rear binding for clipping in).

I usually ski in the morn if it's hard & rough then switch at lunch to the board Coiler AM to do the off piste as it softens.

These skis really do carve nice on just about anything, but you do have to watch out for those inside edges slicing your pants/leg

I'm a better skier than hard booter but I'm enjoying the learning curve of hard booting more :) variety is the spice.

[Gleb]

for those of you who are able to extreme carve on skis, what skis would you recommend for me?

I'm 5'11'' 175 pounds and I'm pretty decent on regular skis. At most, i can spend is around $300ish.

[Raisputin]

I'm wokring on my extreme carves on skis, I have (no laughing) been using cheap ol rental skis at my mountain for the last couple years and I can carve the hell out of them and put myself pretty much on the snow. those guys with both hands on the snow were lower than me though :(...

This year I bought some Völkl 5 stars (last years model) on ebay and I think that they will probably allow me to get that extra little bit I need to put myself all the way to the ground :) :)

[Phil]

I got these last year and they RIP! Of course, I believe that any slalom ski will do for my small area. It is great to go from my SL board to my SL skis and vice versa. If I was at a bigger area, I would want GS skis though.

[Fastskiguy]

You need something like this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=004&item=140039874535&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEDW%3AIT&rd=1

just don't bid too high against me for 'em if they happen to be back online ;)

for those of you who are able to extreme carve on skis, what skis would you recommend for me?

I'm 5'11'' 175 pounds and I'm pretty decent on regular skis. At most, i can spend is around $300ish.

[Gleb]

They're back up but I won't bid on them since you were nice enough to show me:biggthump

I'll find another pair. thanks alot though.

[willywhit]

Bidding has ended for this item

Hard Attack is THE BEST carving vid I've seen

[nils]

Antonin is da man ( call this guts!)! I wish he would try hardboots again... He is now running a nice business in La Clusaz ( home of candide thovex): http://www.lieutaghi.com/pages-fr/index.htm

One of my goals it to get him, and Nerva on hard boots...i know jean, got friends that know Antonin, now its more about persuasion :)

N.

[Gleb]

Ya that video is ridiculous. Defintly gives you a goal to strive to.

[todd]

I have been teaching for the Aspen Skiing Company for 21 years now. Initially skiing, but now some soft set-up boarding, and hard boot carving. I was fortunate enough to be one of the initial testers in Aspen for the SCX 15 years ago.

I still ski on Elans. This is one of their new skis, it is absolutely phenomenal. I am 5-10, 195 lbs. And the 168 I am on is plenty long enough - remember - the shorter you go, the smaller the radius.

Elan, Magfire 10

Length 168,

Radius 13.3

125/75/109

This ski can do it all!

I think your basic descriptions of being "long legged" in the middle of the turn, and flexing/absorging legs between turns is a great way to begin the process of getting further over on your skis. Keep the feet way apart, and keep rolling the outside ankle into the side of your boot, try to get it to press hard towards the edge you are trying to carve on. Work on the carve all the time. On flats, try to leave only "railroad tracks."

If you are in the Aspen area, let me know, and I can try to get you on a pair of these skis to demo for a couple of runs. And of course, there are lots of us who teach who love to rip, and lay it over as far as you can. I have to always put in a plug for some coaching.:)