David Kirk

As an instructor and clinician I always stayed away from using the word "stance" when referring to anything other than the width and angle of the binding set up on the board just to keep it simple. But I totally get what you are saying - thanks for the response. dave

Got it....I assumed that was the case. I've always called that an "open" position. dave

I don't know the nomenclature.....what do you mean by "+ stance"? dave

You're spot on. It's all conceptual and hard to quantify. I think the BTS is certainly part of the deal. At the same time I was using the BTS for a good while with the Sidewinders before swapping over to the F2. So I was able to make an apples-to-apples comparison. And I also agree that some real world measurements need to be taken. i've got a pretty good shop and space to do that work in but i feel strongly that both the binding and boot need to be cold before doing the test to remove that huge variable. The SW living room carpet test give MUCH different results than when you are out on 10° snow. This will be a bit of a challenge and suspect that I'll need to use my chest freezer to bring things to a consistent temperature. What do you think? dave

I've been riding alone a good bit lately and this means time alone on the lift to think...."a dangerous thing" as my dad would have said. I've been trying to puzzle out, and put into words, what is going on with flexible binding and I think I have it worked out. I've done a lot of work on bicycle suspension so tend to think in those terms. I think in the end it boils down to the frequency and amplitude of the vibration we encounter.....and how easy, or hard, it is to deal with it. If you ride a bike through a pump track you are encountering very low frequency and high amplitude movements - the surface is smooth and the bumps are tall and round. These come at the cyclist slowly (less than 1 hz) and the skilled rider can absorb the bumps with their joints and the ride is smooth. The tires stay on the ground and braking and steering is good. While suspension might be nice in this case it's hardly necessary. However when the frequency increases we get in trouble without suspension. Our joints can not react quickly enough to keep the wheels on the surface and the bike ends up skipping and rattling over the bumps (think riding over wash-boarded dirt). Good suspension can all but eliminate this but the compression and rebound spring and damping rates need to be just right or the suspension will "pack up"....meaning that the suspension will compress on the first bump but not be able to rebound before it hits the next bump...so it gets low and stays there...not good. When this happens the bike effectively goes rigid as if it has no suspension at all. Now to snowboarding. When the rider enters a turn the board sees a very high load against the snow and the vibration it encounters is very high frequency and very low amplitude (buzz or chatter). And since the system has no suspension most all of the buzz and chatter are transferred to the rider's feet. The rider then becomes the suspension. The problem is that we can not deal with the high frequency movements very well. The vibration is way over 1 hz (one cycle per second) and our bodies simply can't absorb a small bump, push the board back down and do it again and again many times per second. So what we tend to do is go rigid. We tense our muscles in an effort to resist the movement....but of course going rigid is the worst thing we can do to try to keep it in control. Our muscles tighten and resist any movement and our suspension "packs up" just like it did on the poorly set up bike. We loose the ability to keep the edge firmly and consistently engaged with the snow and the board chatters and our smile goes away. Not good. So...like the bike we need suspension to deal with the motions the board is trying to transfer to our feet....we need a filter of sorts to take up the small stuff so that we can just focus on the big stuff. This is where flexi bindings like the F2. The binding alone can go a good bit. It will effectively filter out the buzz so that our muscles can stay relaxed and supple and deal with the task at hand. Fully rigid bindings to not do this well at all. So not that you asked but this is what I think is going on with binding flex. I've found that switching to the F2 bindings and installing the BTS in my boots that I've improved more this year than I have in the past decade. I feel more stuck to the snow, have better edge hold and have less fatigue all while carving harder. My two cents. Thanks for reading. Dave

Yes....the F2 has MUCH more lateral flex than the TD3....much more. In my mind, after spending time on the F2 the TD3 feels nearly perfectly rigid. The F2 feels downright odd the first time riding at low speeds. I stopped to check that the boot length adjustment was OK because it felt like the boot wasn't properly attached! And then I made some hard turns with them and the huge light bulb came on over my head and for the first time I 'got it'. My wife is a top shelf skier (full time professional ski guide) and has been watching me carve for the past few decades and knows what she's looking at. The first time she saw me on the F2 she could see the difference and noted how easy and calm it looked on the very same slopes that a week before were not easy and calm. I can feel it and she can see it. They really work. In my mind the ideal binding would have the lateral flex (and low weight) of the F2 while allowing the rider to set the lateral spring rate....in other words a design that lets the rider experiment with more or less movement. The F2 works because it moves....would it be better if it moved more?.....or less? Hard to know. I know that for me the SW doesn't move enough and that the spring rate is too progressive (I think due to the thin, short travel and temperature sensitive urethane elastomers used as springs) and that the F2 is, for me at least, a step above in terms of performance. The SW is a much better build piece for sure...hands down. And it also costs and weighs much more. I have experience designing and tuning bicycle and race car suspensions and the binding project could draw on those things. The challenge will be weight and cost. Could be fun if I can make the time. dave

I think the stiff boots are needed so that the rider can effectively apply fore/aft force with the lower leg. A boot soft enough to allow enough lateral movement to keep the rider from getting jacked around would not be stiff enough to apply power to the edge. The F2, and to a much lesser extent the Sidewinder, allows movement side-to-side while they are plenty stiff fore/aft. This side to side movement is the key to edge hold as it allows the board to bounce and rattle over the surface without the lower legs getting yanked around. I think most look at flexi bindings with a skeptical eye and I get it. At the same time I think it's helpful to look at it the other way.... Most look at the binding flex as something that prevents the rider from applying lateral boot force to the board but I think one benefits from looking at it 180° from that....what does the board do to the boot when it encounters a rough surface? As the board encounters vibration it tends to change edge angle slightly and if the boots are rigidly attached to the board the boots (and the riders legs) have to follow as the force is too much to resist effectively. But if the bindings have lateral flex the board can do all kinds of small movements to slide over the less than perfect surface without pulling the boots with it. So the rider ironically feels stable and calm as the board does it's thing down there. One can see it happen if you watch very closely....it's pretty cool. The rider holds his line and the board moves around some and changes edge angle a small amount while the rider's feet are calm and relaxed and the legs are looser and more able to make fine adjustments. Good stuff. dave

I wasn't sure what to expect but seeing that F2's are the most popular brand did surprise me. This poll combined with the 'set up' poll is even more interesting. I thank you all for sharing your thoughts and preferences when it comes to binding brand and set up....I really didn't know what to expect and your answers where very informative. I recently bought some F2 bindings and I really like the way they ride....that said I think they could be better made, more adjustable in terms of cant and lift, and more durable. And at the same time designing a binding that would give the wonderful ride of the F2 while adding adjustability and durability at that price point would be a challenge. Add to that the fact that the F2 is so light (nearly 2 lbs lighter than SW's per set) and it's a serious design and business challenge. I earn my living in product design and I've long had ideas of how to achieve these design aims and have been toying with working on some prototypes of just such a binding. My rough plan is to baseline the F2 in terms of stiffness and flex with the aim of designing a binding that would replicate that while allowing real fine tuning of lift and cant as well as being more durable....all without a weight penalty. It's a tall order for sure and will be a fun diversion from my normal bicycle design work. We'll see. Thanks again for your input. dave

As a follow up to the previous "binding set up" poll I hope you don't mind another question........I'm wondering what brand/model bindings do you use on your carving/race boards? If you use different bindings on different boards you should be able to tick more than one box to show your choices. I thank you for your feedback and time. dave

I think you may have misunderstood the intention of my question. I was only wondering how people set up their bindings to better understand their own personal requirements from a design perspective.....in more simple terms what adjustments do people need their bindings to have? Do they feel that they need a binding that will allow for lift, or cant, or both? dave

Thank you - yes I was asking about carving set ups. dave

How are people setting up their bindings on their carving boards? dave

Roughly speaking a 27 will be about 1 cm shorter than a 28......just take a look at how much adjustment range you have on the binding and you should know if they will work with the shorter boot. dave

Sold, paid for, shipped. dave

I bought a few pair of these new this year and I find that I have more than I need so this pair needs to find a new home. I have about 5 days on them and like them very much. They are set up with 3° and 6° cant plates and the soft yellow mounting pads. If the buyer would like I can supply them with two 6° cant plates instead of the 3 and 6. These sell new for $525 + shipping from Bomber and I'll let this pair go for $350 shipped anywhere in the lower 48 states. I accept paypal for payment and will ship within 24 hours of receiving payment....I will ship the same day if payment arrives before the mailman. Please contact me with any questions and I'll do my best to get you answers. dave

I think one of the core issues is that it doesn't matter what gear you are riding (boards or skis) spending time on groomers isn't the cool thing to do. Sure if you are a ski racer running gates you rail turns on groomers but most people on the hill aspire to move away from the groomers and onto the steeps and bumps or park. The "good/cool guys" on the hill only use a groomer to get back to the lift. Couple this with the fact that most snowboarders get into snowboarding for the freestyle/freeride aspects of the sport.....and these activities do not take place on groomed snow. Groomers aren't cool. So....IMO.....the way to get more people on alpine boards is to appeal to those people who are predisposed to wanting to spend time on groomers and to find a more fun way to do it. In my mind this means skiers. They are comfortable with the boots and the forward stance and they appreciate a perfectly carved turn on groomed snow. I was level III AASI instructor years ago and rode hard boots full time. I taught a good number of fellow instructors how to carve on alpine gear but 9 times out of 10 it was ski instructors, and not snowboard, that wanted to learn how to do it. Target people who like spending time carving turns and put them on one ski instead of two and they'll have a ball.....trying to take a 22 year old kid who uses soft boots set at 5° out of the park and steeps and putting them on a groomer will seldom work. My 2 cents. dave

Thanks for the interest - the parts have been sold and paid for. dave

Responded. d

Up for sale is a set of Bomber base plates meant for use with a binding plate. They are 6° and 3° and have been used for about 3 hours in total. All hardware is of course included and they are virtually new. They lower the whole binding assembly to reduce stack height when using a binding plate. They sell for $125 (plus shipping) new from Bomber and I'll let these go for $70 shipped anywhere in the lower 48 states. Paypal payment only. Please PM me if interested. I will ship the same day or the next day at the latest. dave

Sold, paid and shipped. Thank you, dave

Sold to Joe pending payment. dave

PM sent. dave

Up for sale is a pair of TD-2 TrenchDiggers. They are in very good shape and of course include all the hardware. No damage, no stories. All the threads are perfect and the heel springs keep the rear bail standing tall. They are currently set up with 3° and 6° base plates and I also have a 0° so you can have any two of the three - you just tell me what two you'd like and we'll be all set. The price is $120 shipped anywhere in the lower 48 states. If you are outside that area contact me and we'll work out what additional shipping cost will be needed. Paypal payment only. As soon as payment is received they will go out to you via USPS within one day. dave

I'm in......or is it out? dave

My boots are 27.5's and I'm 6'4' and weigh 185 lbs. This first pair have been mounted to my new-this-season custom Kessler 168 slalom board and the next set will go on the K185. dave The SW of course has more lateral movement than the rigid version but both are very stiff. The bindings themselves move little to none and most of the 'give' is in the boot sole pads compressing. They are probably much stiffer than you imagine. dave