Jack M

It's just another small part of the whole about-face Burton has done with alpine. If they don't want to be involved with it, fine, but there's no need for them to poke fun at it. This reminds me of the press release they issued a few years ago smugly advising resorts to remove all alpine images from their marketing materials. If it was really a nod to us, they would have used a current image. However I suppose the meaning of the shirt can be determined by the wearer. Worn by one of us, it can be sincere. Worn by a 15 year old park rat, it's a lampoon. What bothers me is that it can be worn either way. Not that it <i>really</i> matters.

The picture is circa 1988 (note the Oakley Razor Blades), of Dave Alden, but the little Burton logo is current. I think it's a spoof, saying the opposite of what it really means, a la those skater bumperstickers that say "I love cops".

Actually, the "golden boy" on the left with the lime green sidewalls is quite fetching in person. It was on last season's 180 (I have one - sick, sick board), and it really looks sharp. The gold tone almost glows and the lime sidewalls really pop. You wouldn't think those colors would go together, but somehow it works. Put some Ti-TD2s on that sucker and you've got serious bling factor. Although it would be cool to have a plain option - swt was selling a Madd this spring with a snazzy red topsheet with a simple oval Madd logo.

A more direct comparison would be the 164 or 169 4WD vs the Pilot 167. But in any case, the 4WD is an all-mountain carving board, the Pilot is a freecarve board (not as good for powder or off-piste, better for groomers). Check the specs - look at sidecut radius and waist width especially. This article will help you decide: http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/how_to_buy_snowboard.cfm

What will the racers think now??

Never! I'm still boycotting K2 for making that stupid Gyrator. ;)

Nothing but compliments here. You're not bending over at the waist, your ass is not up in the air, and you're really not reaching for the snow, it just happens to be in your hand's way. Now, tell me this was last year so I don't have to make a jealousy voodoo doll out of you.

R = l²/8d + d/2 R = sidecut radius l = running length d = sidecut depth you can omit the d/2 term if you want because it is pretty much insignificant.

Yes, it's all disgusting but.... on the other hand, if it helps Burton to stay #1, that's fine with me. I'd rather not have the #1 snowboard company in the world be a ski company.

wow, THX and everything!! thanks for the stoke guys.

Sorry man. I guess I did read the post wrong! And I refer to myself as a noob in several other circles, so I don't consider it an insult, but I can see how it can be taken that way. My bad. Enjoy the Beamer.

Fin, I'm thinking this thread needs to be moved into the new "bra and panties pillow fight" forum.

If I'm reading the first post right, the guy is a relative noob. There's just no point in learning how to carve on an asym. Why start at a point from where so many of us had to evolve? Asyms are meant to be ridden with the weight shift happening from heel to toe and vice versa. This can easily lead to diving the upper body into the toeside carve and reaching down for the snow. All that really needs to happen for an edge change is a quick flick of the ankles - easier on a sym.

If you think you could handle an 18cm wide board... the Madd 158 is an east coast ice weapon.

That wasn't really the point.

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank a soldier.

I agree it's a cool board for a collection, and that an experienced carver could have a gas riding it just for grins. But it's simply a bad board for <b>learning</b>. What is going to happen after the guy learns how to carve on it, then decides he wants a new board? You can't buy a new asym, so he's going to have to unlearn a lot of things when he gets on a modern board. For example, I believe asym technique promotes bending over at the waist towards the snow on toeside. Bad bad bad. This is all pointless and unnecessary, regardless of your misdirected nostalgia for the good ol' days when P&J made carving cool.

Asym is obsolete. http://www.bomberonline.com//articles/asymetric.cfm

Klug made an excellent show last time. Bronze medal, first American snowboard racing medal, he got to carry the 9/11 flag into the arena, the transplant.... every angle was worked, and he delivered for us big time. IF he doesn't do it again, it won't be as if his potential was squandered. He's done his part and then some.

Nah, experienced carvers only need a run or two to get back within 95% of their game at the beginning of each season. F2 Speedsters do have long sidecuts, so they need to be ridden faster than most other boards of the same length. (Volkls have shorter sidecuts) As a beginner it would probably be ideal to start on something more like a freecarve deck. But feel free to try it out and if it feels like the damn thing just doesn't want to come around, then the classifieds here will scoop it up in no time - F2s are popular.

This article will give you a good idea of how TD2s work: http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/TD2_setup.cfm

I would not make a purchase without demo'ing some Atomics. They seem like da shizzle to me, although I haven't been on a pair of skis in ages.

Thomas, I'd be surprized if you were fitting mondo 29s on that 147 at those angles without getting boot drag. I'd look at the wider Doneks then, like the Pilot 167 or the 170 Peterson FC. Or if those lengths seem too long then the 163 FC-II. Just remember that the length of a board is not a difficulty while carving - only while <i>not</i> carving. Based on what you say about the 147 it sounds like you're ready for <i>at least</i> a 163. Boots - any reputable ski shop with the right equipment should be able to help. I'm not sure if the 413 is Intec compatible - if the heel is removable then it probably is.

What's your foot size? That and your angle preference will determine the width of the board. Basically you should find out all the measurements of your Oxygen (length, width, radius) and think about what you want to change about it. Was it a good width for your feet? Do you feel like you want to go faster? If so, look for a board with a longer sidecut radius than the Oxy. The Pilot will save you some money, I'd probably look at either the 167 or 168 - note the difference in radius and waist width. Otherwise the FC line is very popular.

"Your right to extend your fist ends at the tip of my nose." - T. Roosevelt Smoking fails that test. keep this thread nice, mmmkay? Cliff?