gdboytyler

You're NOT going to find very many USED boards wider than 21.5cm. Donek, Prior, Coiler and Swoard all make alpine boards as wide as 23 cm. But then, you'll most likely have to pay the full retail price.

My theory is based on personal experience, field observation and watching videos. How can you disprove my theory? What measurable component of free-riding or racing is going to show a greater than 10% improvement when the WEW (weekend warrior) jumps from a Burton FP to a Kessler? Revolutionary is jumping from the Burton Elite 150 to the Burton FP. Phil’s post would have been much better with this graphic:

I remember reading an article where a pro skier (might have been Scott Schmidt) was talking about a ski seminar he was involved with. A seminar participant wanted to keep talking about the latest ski technologies. The pro wanted to say “You’ll have to quit your day job if you want to get any better”. At a certain point, it’s all about the Indian and not the arrow. I theorize that price point can be reached at $400 :p Here’s my partially informed notion on price vs performance in regards to the weekend warrior.

Looks like a warming trend for next week. Damn, I should of went earlier this week when conditions were excellent. Surf forecast is looking good for the weekend, so no snowboarding for me. Anyway, who's up for some mid-week riding on Thursday, the 17th? It should be sunny and uncrowded.

Impressing yahoos like me is where the money is at. It's ludicrous to say racers are too busy training to put out a free-riding video that shows off their skills. Shaun White, the biggest name in competitive snowboarding has time for free-riding videos. And don't try telling me alpine events take more time and dedication than freestyle. In the age of YouTube, anybody can get their video out to the masses. If the pros think free-riding videos aren't worthwhile, it's their loss. I haven't bought a snowboard video since Totally Board 5. If a world cup racer put out a quality free-riding video, I'd be first in line to buy a copy.

When's the last time a world cup racer put out a video that showed the racer laying down lines that the weekend warrior wanted to emulate? The last one I remember was an old Burton video with Bauer and Nerva. Those guys were laying down some good looking carves and carving 360's. That’s what inspired me to get an alpine setup. I’m NOT dreaming about Olympic class racers running gates, let alone amateur racers. I’m sure the current crop of pro racers are also excellent carvers, I just never see it. It may not be “fundamentally sound”, but I dream of carving like this: The EC crew didn’t need metal. The pro-metal retort will be: “the metal board will get you to your goal quicker and easier”. Well, when it comes to EC, I haven’t seen anybody match Jacques or Patrice. So if the pros aren’t doing those EC style turns on their metal boards, maybe the metal isn’t an advantage for that style of riding. And if the pros can show up Jacques and Patrice on EC, they should video it. It would be great publicity. I mean with the advanced boards and much greater athletic ability, they should be able to slap that video together during a lunch break. The pros have got to know how famous the EC crew is among weekend warriors. I suppose the other reason there are no videos of current pros doing the EC thing is because, the EC turn is so different from the race turn that the racers don’t want to get into any bad habits. But the bad habit thing didn’t stop Bauer and Nerva. Or maybe they think its lame. If that’s the case, maybe that’s why there seems to be a disconnect between recreational riders and racers. Different aspects of the sport are what get us excited. In surfing, it’s common to hear, “I want to ride like Kelly Slater”. In golf, “I want to swing like Tiger”. When out snowboarding, I haven’t heard one single carver say “I want to turn like ‘insert pro racer”. I have heard numerous times, “I want to turn like the guys in the Swoard video”. That probably pisses off the pros to no end. This is another rider I’d like to emulate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou9XQjSj1ms Not much info on that video, so for all I know, he could be a world cup racer. But his board doesn’t look like metal either. Then you got these guys carving it up on freestyle boards and softboots. I’m assuming the freestyle boards have no metal. Until I see some spectacular free-carving on a metal board (or demo one), I’m staying on the unbeliever side of the fence.

Why are the board prices in the (downloaded) catalog less than website prices? For example Prior Metal WCR = $849 in the catalog vs $999 on website. Volkl Renn Tiger = $600 in the catalog vs $620 on website

I've never had the chance to ride a metal board yet. Even though I'm skeptical about how much a metal board will help a recreational rider, I'm still trying to talk a friend of mine into buying a Prior WCR Metal board (because I want to try it out). He was asking for concrete evidence on the superiority of metal, other than race results. My friend is currently riding a Burton FP. He’s just looking for something different and new (and he can afford high-end equipment). If he actually buys that metal board, I’ll post video of me riding metal vs. Donek Olympic construction. If he can’t feel the difference between the Burton and the Prior, at least he’ll have a shiny new board. This is the 21st century. Everybody and their brother has video cameras. I’d like to see more video reviews that do side by side comparisons.

I think I proved that the old Burton Coil I was riding was NOT holding me back. But that didn't stop me from buying a new board. Here's a quote from the Carver's Almanac: http://www.alpinecarving.com/board_models.html There is one disclaimer about boards from small manufacturers - most of the boards are expensive. Therefore, it is speculated that carvers rave about them regardless of actual performance, in order to justify the purchase to their wives.

Bordy's reasoning is actually what I was trying to get across. Switching to a metal board is NOT going to make me a better rider. When I get better and start to stress out my current equipment, then I can put the advantages of a metal board to use. I'd be better off using the money I save (from not upgrading to metal) on gas and just snowboard more often. When there’s a demo day in So Cal, a metal board will be first on my list to demo. Sure, competition shows absolute proof that metal boards are the best for racing. My argument is that there is only anecdotal evidence that metal boards significantly improve the performance of the recreational rider. When Bobdea claims metal boards make any Donek look washed up, I simply ask for the evidence. From everything I’ve read about the metal boards, the Donek won’t looked washed up until the rider is hauling ass and hits some ruts or ice. I almost never run into ruts. I only occasionally encounter ice. I’d guess that board would make me a FACKIN hazard. Of course, if that board were to be magically available at the demo tent, I’d be willing to try it out.

I’d like to see some before and after video to back up that claim. I’m betting that if you video someone riding a metal board and a good standard construction board (similar specs), the viewing audience would have to look for the logos to be able to tell which board was getting ridden. Here’s a video of me riding in CO on a 05/06 Donek FCII 163 and a Burton Coil 165 (late 1990’s?). Both have around a 10m sidecut radius. I’m on the Donek in the first part of the video. I switch to the Burton at the 1:30 mark. My riding looks the same on both boards, and both boards felt very similar. I seriously DOUBT buying a metal board is going to make me a better rider. I don’t race, so I don’t need the metal board to gain a fraction of a second on a race course. I suppose the metal board would be more enjoyable once the conditions start getting crappy. I did buy a custom Donek 165 (end of 05/06 season) with Olympic construction. Now that board improved my EC riding. But I would guess that the 13m sidecut on the board had more to do with the EC performance than the Olympic construction. Here’s a video of me riding the Donek 165 (currently my favorite board) at June Mtn. I want to believe that metal is the Holy Grail. But, I’m just too much of a skeptic. Someone post up a before and after video and make me a believer.

I've snowboarded on New Years Day, 4 out of the past 5 years. I missed January 1, 2007 because I was at the Rose Bowl watching USC embarrass UofM. I'll commit for January 1, 2009 Erwin

I'll be at Snow Summit celebrating the New Year with OVR. I feel a New Year Expression Session coming on

I highly recommend the K2 T1. It uses the BOA system on the inner bladder and regular laces on the outside. The K2 T1 are the best soft boots I've tried. These are the first soft boots I've had that have zero heel lift. The T1's matched up with Flow bindings, have re-invigorated my soft-boot carving.

Whatever you do, pick a Sunday. At least any Sunday when the surf is crap.

I plan to be at the Snow Summit parking lot by 7:45 am on Sunday. Anybody else?

Total disagreement here. Now that CATEK carries Kessler, anybody can get one. Compared to the SurferMag forum, BOL is a gentlemen's club (the kind with manners, not topless women). I must have missed the posts where BOL oldtimer's have been dissing racers or pros. I would definitely be more comfortable buying equipment from the weekend warrior with 5000 posts instead of the racer with 5 posts. I don’t know either one, but at least I would have read about any bad dealings with the post whore. When it comes to reading about technique, I pretty much ignore whatever’s been written, UNLESS, I’ve seen some photos or videos of the poster in action. So I like Jack’s idea about including your race background in your signature. You’ll get a more attentive audience.

I tried playing the video with Windows Media Player and Quicktime. All I get is the audio. What media player should I use? Or do I need to download a plug-in?

Alright, I'll finally post a first-hand report. Snow Summit was actually pretty good Sunday morning. I got on the snow about 8:30am. Only 1 chair was open, servicing Miracle Mile and Summit Run. Conditions were very carvable and light crowd until about 10:30am. Some death cookies at the lower part of Summit Run, but not too bad. I rode my Madd 158 until about 11:30am. Snow had softened up a bit (but not slushy) by then and got crowded (about a 10-15min lift line). I rode my soft setup in the afternoon (RadAir Reto Lamm 158? and flow bindings). No jumps were setup at the time at Snow Summit. All the freestyle stuff was at Bear. Good coverage in the middle part of the run. Stay away from the edges. I saw a skier hit something hard at the side of the run, his skiis stuck and released, and he went head over heels about 4 times. Knocked out and limp after the first flip. Carted away on the tobaggan.

oldvolvosrule, I can't join you on Friday, but if the surf is crappy this weekend, I'll start my season at Snow Summit on Sunday.

Houston has an avg BMI of 24.8. That's not skinny. That's the upper range of the normal weight category. That would make for a lot of overweight people in Houston.

Damn, I thought this thread was going to about carvers that won't hit jumps.

Steep and deep, untracked powder for me The only thing better than a great powder day is perfect, uncrowded overhead surf.

I'm going to FL tomorrow. I'll have to check out the surf program. How much did you pay? I watched a YouTube vid and these guys paid $1300 for 100 waves at Typhoon Lagoon! That's too much for a chest high mushburger. I'm hitting the Orlando Watersports Complex on Sat. Renting a wakeboard boat for 3 hrs. I'll be wakeboarding and wakesurfing. No barefoot for me - sounds too hazardous. I'll probably do the cable park later in the week. Will also do a bunch of shooting at my friend's property and maybe get in some paintball and airsoft games. I will reluctantly do Universal Studios.

The RockGardn has a really good fit. It has some velcro straps to allow a customized fit. When I'm riding, I forget that I'm even wearing it. With my jacket on, you can't tell that I'm wearing body armor. I do get some strange looks when I take off my jacket during lunch. I even get people asking me if they can punch me in the chest to check out how well the padding works.