Phil

Personally, I wasn't coming down on the guy for not carving. I thought that it was great to see him on a board. He really looked like he was having fun and he was moving at a decent clip for a man his age. I was just responding to the post that said he was carving which clearly he was not. Please don't read anything into my post. I would not dare get political on this forum. By the time elections role around, I always feel like I have to vote for the less of the evils anyway - never for a great candidate.

Carving?! Those were not bad turns, but if you think he was carving, we need to set you up with someone to introduce you to the REAL art of carving. Those were skidded turns. He was doing alright though - getting down the mountain.

I have a Burton that I still ride regularly. I am not gay, but have friends and family that are. I thought the ad was cute and so did my gay friends (gay family members don't ride). Point of the story -- Lighten up!

A lot of what has been said here is great - let me say it another way (same info though). Work on getting on a high edge angle early in the turn. As soon as you transfer edges, immediately work on getting your board up on edge - a high edge angle. Use your ankles to do this as much as possible. Many people try to throw their upper body ino the turn. This is a tactic, and even a fun one. To begin to learn this effectively, don't throw your body into it too much. Ankles for angles!

That may have been him. Like I said, I don't remember his name. If it was - oh well. I was only with him for a couple runs. I never tried to verify his claims because it really didn't mean anything to me. I guess we all have our delusions of grandeur - some just have them a little worse than others. Thanks for clearing that up. -Phil-

The wonderful art of detuning from the beautiful days of straight skis. Do any of you guys enjoy straight skis? I didn't think so.

You didn't say anything about boots. I would recommend ski boots since children that age have less developed lower leg muscles. This will allow them to use gross body movements to achieve things on their board.

I know some good rehab programs that can get you guys off of whatever you are on!:D

I wear Burton SI's in 14 as well. I got UPS hardboots from Dan Yoja. Look him up and I am sure that he can take care of you.

You know Neil - I saw you riding the other day, and you were on one stick. But after reading this reply, I am wondering if you are starting to get pulled into the dark side. Maybe you need to distance yourself a little from those SRRC skiers.:D This sounds like a quote from the "Shoulder Alignment" where someone mentioned the days of old where it was said "it doesn't look like you are skiing on your snowboard."

I was at Brighton last year, and I rode with the head trainer for their snowboard school. He was in soft boots at the time, but he actually approached me because of my setup. He said that he did a lot of training w/the US snowboard team. He also said that he raced a lot. I cannot verify his claims - although these credentials were also on his business card. His riding, and his knowledge of riding seemed pretty sound. He was also an AASI L3 which a lot of people don't put much stock in, but I do. Sorry, I don't remember his name. Hope this helps.

Like Jack said, the board will be fun to learn carving on greens. With your weight (I weigh 230 - so I know) you will really be able to bend the board. When you put it on edge, it is really going to turn. Once you get the hang of it, you will be able to take this board to more difficult slopes, but you are going to have to make sure that you stay centered on it. If you get up front toward the nose, or "get in the back seat" toward the tail, you will over power the board and end up on your can or on your face. I would suggest that you move your stance as wide as you are comfortable with. If you learn to stay centered on it, you may find that you really enjoy it! Have fun.

Great board - I still have one that is trashed from waaaay too much usage. Mine is a 178 though. That must have been a different year. As posted above, it is assymetric. Unlike most assymetrical boards, it is a twin. As slopetool says, it tells you which edge is your heelside, so you line your heels up there, and turn toward whichever direction you ride. Even though it is a long board, it rides short. It has a short running length since the nose and tail are so long. It is relatively soft for a long board too. I found it to be a great all around board, and still the best mogul board I have ever ridden. Great find! Have fun!

50-50'ing a short rail does not really damage your board. I really stay away from boardslides on hardboots. I am just not as comfortable. So I have 50-50'ed a ton of rails on my race boards - no damage. My freestyle boards are a different story, they are all messed up, but I do many different types of slides on them. Baka - Handrails are the original, and the best - no doubt. But if they are the original, then the rails in the park are just extra crispy. I am glad that we have rails. Rail conditions never change. If we have an ice storm, and the slopes are crap, I can always count on the rails being the same. You should definitely try a rail (again, preferably 50-50 on a short, flat rail to start). You never know, it may change your mind.

I stopped subscribing to TWsnow years ago when I realized that they were marketing to a low teen demographic. (and also those who are older but have never grown out of their low teens) They are making money doing this, and most likely they won't change, so I gave up reading the mag. Unless you are 12 or 13, it seems that the mag is useless.

I've never ridden with Randy Price, but I've seen enough of him in video and pictures to know what you mean. It seems like a lot of people have a love hate thing w/AASI. Still, a lot of what you said is right on track with what they're preaching. Of course, Randy Price probably has a lot to do with that.

That was a great, well thought out post. I am not sure if you were addressing someone or something in particular, but it was a great explanation of riding softies. I teach these techniques that you talk about six days a week. A lot of your ideas sounded similar to things that we talked about in the shoulder alignment thread. Are you involved with AASI? This sounds like AASI material. Thanks for another great post.

Great post - well thought out. Thanks.

Yes, each individual has a different Range of Motion, but the ways we can capitalize on our Range of Motion remains the same. Read the post above and actually try what was said and maybe it will make sense. Most movements that you make in one part of your body affect other parts of your body. (again, explained above) As stated before - you can make things happen, even with poor alignment, but that does not mean that it is the most efficient way. As far as Eurocarving, that is another tactic or style. We can all ride however we want. We will also probably have fun riding however we want. That does not mean that we are riding in a way that is efficient. Look at the original questions posted in this thread. That is what we have been dealing with. It looks like ncermak was looking for maximum efficiency, and that has continued to be ignored by the neutral stance nay-sayers.

Now that response was well thought out. Next time you are out riding, do your heelside turn as you normally would. Sitting on the toilet is a good start. During that turn, experiment with your ankle movement. Close your ankle joint so that you can feel your toes against the tops of your boots. You will also feel a strain on the muscles of your anterior compartment of each leg. (the muscles around your shins) Vary the pressure to experiment with the effect on the board. Most likely you will find that this helps achieve a higher edge angle. Have fun!

The post modern culture has made it to this forum. "What's good for you may not be good for me." Unfortunately, our bodies generally all work in similar ways, and there are many ways that we can make our board work, but there are ways that are more effective and efficient. As an instructor, that is always my goal. I feel that I covered this issue enough in my first post, but many of these replies have given opinion with nothing to back it up. jlm27 - I don't think that we really disagree. I mentioned that higher angles are less affected by facing toward the nose. They are, however, still affected. If you rotate your spine by misaligning your shoulders with your hips, even 30 degrees, you are limiting your ROM, and you are also creating a tension in your upper body. Also, twist IS involved in carving, but it is not the main driving force and therefore we need to be careful about our alignment in order not to twist the board unintentionally. Read my first post carefully, and you will see that the high angle discussion mirrors yours, but even with high angles, facing the nose is still not the most efficient way. This seems like another argument for why you SHOULD be lined up in the most efficient stance - that way you can use your ankles to make these adjustments. Bola - I would like to respond to what you said, but I don't really know where your post is coming into this discussion. No one was talking about bending at the waist. Being able to get low by not bending at the waist is exactly why we are talking about maximizing Range of Motion by being properly aligned.

When you are squared to the front of the board on toeside, the twist that your body is in tends to release pressure on your edge in the front of the board while increasing pressure on the edge toward the back of the board. When you chatter, shifting your weight back as Philfell mentions, you weight the rear even more, and it can actually save you. You end up riding the tail out. The problem is, you probably wouldn't have gotten into the situation in the first place if you had been in a more effective alignment.

I would argue that it is either poor form, or there is more going on in the picture than we realize. A picture is only one moment in time, therefore, we really don't know what the rider was responding to. It is also something that has been taught incorrectly for a long time, so we see a lot of people doing it. Try some toeside turns with your body lined up with your stance and see if you don't feel the difference. Also try some of the other things that I mentioned above and see if you can feel the misalignment.

Philfell - I think that your second paragraph was just a more succinct way to express my paragraphs 3-7. Am I right?

You are right when you say that lining up with your binding angles increases your range of motion. Here are two things that I do with students to show them this. I have them square their shoulders to face the front of the board - then I have them try to flex their ankles and knees to get as low as they can. Then I have them square their shoulders with their front binding and/or the average of both bindings. Now when they try to flex their knees and ankles, they can really get low. That shows the R.O.M. has increased by getting aligned with the binding angles. This is all very basic biomechanics. I have had racers tell me - "but it's different with racing" Sure - why would you need Range of Motion for an unaggressive style like racing? Now that the range of motion issue is addressed, lets address the movements used in carving. Oh, but first, lets not assume that everyone is in the same gear. It is silly to tell everyone to square with the front of the board, because some people may ride hardboots with as little as 35 degrees. That makes a world of difference from someone who rides at 70 degrees. That is the kind of thing that usually gets ignored in these threads as everyone seems to have a correct yet different answer. Anyway, in order to carve, we want to engage the whole edge of the board without getting the board to pivot (for you AASI guys). Now lets go back to standing on our board and squaring with the nose of the board. Notice where the pressure is on each foot. The lower the stance angles, the more you will notice that your with one foot, you have pressure on your toes, and the other you have pressure on your heals. This causes the board to twist. This twist is the same thing used to skid a turn. In essence, you are using a movement that skids a board in order to carve a board. Then you have to compensate in other ways to hold the carve. Now we see that squaring with the nose is not only inefficient for Range of Motion, but it is also inefficient for making the board carve. (inefficient, but not an uncommon technique) Here is where binding angles come in. At high angles, facing the front of the board allows you to tip the boots by driving the knees on both the heelside and toeside turns. That is why facing the nose of the board isn't as bad at high binding angles. By driving both knees with high binding angles, you do not twist the board as much. This makes the "face the nose" technique a little more viable. However, by driving your knees in this manner, you are eliminating a lot of the ankle movement that is so important for snowboarding. Facing your stance, you are more able to use your ankles to achieve a higher edge angle. Facing the nose, your ankles are used more to get your CM forward while driving your knees. Here is where (and please don't allow this to open a can of worms) ski boots come in. Ski boots tend to be more effective at high binding angles, because a ski boot that is stiff in comparison to a snowboard hardboot will not allow a lot of ankle movement anyway. Another thing that I hear is that "in slalom, you want to square your body down the hill" This is even worse. On your heelside, you can get away with it, but your toeside will really suffer - your body is just too twisted. Instead, line up with your stance, point the board down the course, then realize where your body is pointed in relation to the course. If your bindings are at 45 degrees, your shoulders should generally stay around 45 degrees from the direction of the course. This will give you a maximum range of motion for slalom - where you really need it! GS is a little different, but maximum range of motion is still necessary. There are other techniques involved that may require adjustments though, and that is not what this thread is about. It has been argued here on BOL before that racers are split between these two techniques, but I think that you will find that most racers are now squared with their stance. In a recent thread, I remember someone saying that Klug lines up w/his stance, and Jasey Jay squares to the nose or something to that effect. I taped the Jeep King of the Mountain two weeks ago, and Jasey Jay was lined up with his stance. In fact, I reviewed the tape with a bunch of ski and snowboard instructors and other riders, and everyone seemed to agree that most if not all of the riders were squared with their stances. Some things that give this away are: The rear hand is not out in front with the front hand, and the sternum is centered over the front knee (noticeable on the heelside turn - also a good thing to teach)(another good thing to teach is getting riders used to keeping their head turned to the nose of the board even though their body is not) I have a feeling that squaring with the front of the board came from skiing. It was even taught to soft booters with low angles back in the dark ages of snowboarding (when cross over skiers were teaching boarding). I believe that your observation about range of motion is a great and much needed one. Along with general evolution of snowboarding through solid biomechinics and kinesiology, our sport has been and will continue to progress nicely. Sorry this has been so long, but I hope that it was helpful.