noschoolrider

Well, I recently finished several weeks of testing on 3 of Bruce's VSR prototypes and in my feedback to Bruce I said, "the middle of the board does not bend outward in the turn so it does not scrub/lose speed" and Bruce confirmed that this was a design trait that was taken off a modern race shape and he also said, "It is as you figured not designed to scrub speed off as a normal FC board." So, you can take this debate up with Bruce if you want.

Static angulation is pasive, and the addition of dynamic angulation by itself (making angulation/balancing adjustments while in motion) still makes a passive turn because there is no muscular turning force involved. Used by itself, angulation will not significantly effect the turn radius the way Mark and I have been discussing it.

Ouch! It’s easy for most people to roll the board on an edge and let the board make a turn the size that it’s side cut radius is designed for. But, that is being passive because the board is the one taking you for a ride. However, as Mark has already stated, if you have the skills/techniques then you can manipulate a board so that it will make a bigger or smaller carved turn than what it’s side cut radius is designed for, whether you’re on hero snow or ice. These are some of the skills that racers need to be competitive!

Some of the new VSR boards have the stiffest area in the middle and because of this they do not bend as you would expect them to, and therefore they do not assume the exact shape of a radial arc like a conventional board does. However, they get the job done faster because they don't lose as much speed as a conventional board does. So, the use of the word “ideal” depends upon what you are trying to achieve.

Fin, Regarding “pedaling”: I think that is the correct term because about 17 years I remember being with a group of pro riders and board testers at Mt Hood who were using that term and discussing the pros and cons of torsional twist. If I remember correctly, Mark Fawcett showed us the following techniques that he used: 1. When riding a board flat and straight at high speeds on a hard and/or uneven surface it becomes difficult to keep the board tracking straight so it feels unstable (especially a board with a lot of base bevel because there is little or no edge contact). The technique for correcting this problem is to lightly pressure opposite edges by slightly torsionally twisting the board with your front and back foot. Example: Use your front foot to pressure the toe-side edge by pushing down (weighting) your toes while at the same time using your back foot to pressure the heel-side edge by pushing down (weighting) your heel. Using this technique keeps your body more centered over the board so you can also leverage one foot against the other more effectively to assist in keeping the board going straight and you will not lose as much speed as you would if you set a full edge. 2. In some situations, while aggressively carving a turn the nose of the board will dig too hard/deep, which can cause an excessive loss of speed and/or a crash. The technique for correcting this problem is to slightly torsionally twist the board to reduce the edge angle in the front of the board by lightly pushing against the edge that is not on the snow with your front foot while maintaining the same edge angle with the back foot. However, in my opinion, this technique is unnecessary on a new school board with a decambered (extended rocker) nose because the nose is designed so that it will not dig too hard/deep. Also, some snowboard instructors teach their students to torsionally twist the board as a method of turn initiation. However, some instructors find that method to be too slow (and confusing), and most alpine boards are too torsionally rigid for that method to be effective. The problems with too much torsional twist is that the board can start to wobble while in a hard carve which will leave a wavy track in the snow. This is because parts of the board’s edge are engaging and disengaging as it twists off the pressure/forces caused by the turn and the rider’s weight. So far, I have never been on a board that I would describe as too torsionally rigid/stiff, so it would be interesting to find out if that would have a negative effect on the new school race boards.

Jack, there are too many variables for easy answers: <B>What is the ideal shape a board should assume in order to carve a radial arc (a section of a circle)?</B> Doesn't it depend upon the design of the board and the radius of the radial arc? Some of the new boards have the stiffest point in the middle so the middle of the board will not bend outward in the turn and scrub off speed in a turn like a conventional board will, while some boards are stiffer in the nose and others are super stiff in the tail, and some boards have full rocker. So, wouldn't each of these different designs have a different ideal shape for each different size turn? <B>Should the board have a consistent edge angle down the entire length of the board while carving?</B> Is the surface of the snow perfectly smooth and perfectly consistent in density all of the time? Shouldn’t the rider make adjustments throughout the turn to maintain the appropriate amount of edge angle, pressure, balance, and rotary/turning force to complete the turn as efficiently as possible? <B>What will happen to the board if you apply twisting and/or bending forces to it with your legs?</B> If the board is designed to twist and bend, then wouldn’t it twist and/or bend where it is designed to, based upon the rider’s input and the forces of the turn? <B>What shape and edge angle(s) will the board assume if you do this?</B> Doesn’t it depend on <B>how much</B> the rider physically manipulates the board and how much the forces of the turn manipulate the board? <B>How is this good for optimizing edge hold on hard conditions?</B> Doesn’t optimal edge hold occur when the appropriate amount of pressure is maintained upon the appropriate edge angle? Isn’t it up to the rider to achieve this by maintaining the appropriate amount of edge angle and not over-pressure the board/edge (like when too much rotary is used or too much downward weight is applied) or under-pressure the board/edge (like when too much absorption/un-weighting is used)? So, if the rider makes adjustments that help maintain optimum edge angle and optimum pressure then wouldn’t optimum edge hold be achieved (wouldn’t that be good)? <B>I believe the HFP and similar systems are designed to help the board assume the ideal shape for carving, as well as provide suspension/dampening.</B> Some systems can be used to change the shape of the board (they can induce camber or rocker) and/or add or reduce pressure/preload on the board. Other systems are designed to allow the rider to have more input upon the board as well as provide suspension/dampening. The question is: Is the HFP going to change/effect the shape/performance of the board via the plates and/or torsion bar, or is it just going to make it easier for the rider do this in addition to providing suspension/dampening?

How about <b>B</b>omber <b>A</b>ctive <b>D</b>ampening <b>A</b>djustable <b>S</b>uspension <b>S</b>ystem or "<b>BAD ASS</b>"

Here's the "no hands on snow" heel & toe side together:

The AASI Northwest Division’s Snowboard Exam Certification Guide is at the following link: http://www.psia-nw.org/alpine-certification/snowboard/snowboard-certification-downloads/ If you read pages 12 through 21 you will see that the Level 1 exam is not as easy as some would lead you to believe, and it is not just given out to everybody who shows up. I worked as an Examiner and Divisional Clinic Leader in the Northwest Division for 6 years. During that time I worked primarily as a Level 2 and 3 examiner and an exam prep clinician, and I helped create the study and certification guides and the written exams. However, I also administered Level 1 exams to more than 500 candidates and approximately 10 percent of those candidates failed the Level 1 exam (about 70 percent of them failed the written exam and the others failed the riding exam). I can’t speak for other divisions but in Northwest Division the Level 1 certification has never been just given to a person who shows up – you have to earn it by passing a ‘real’ riding exam and a 40 question written test.

Hi Max, I (like Rebecca) was shocked when I heard about what happened to you, and I’m also still upset about it. I hope you have a full and speedy recovery and that I get the opportunity to ride with you next year. Best wishes, Don

Hi Shawn, It takes a lot of guts to make that kind of a sincere public apology, and I admire you for that. There’s about 15 of us local carvers here and I’m also a certified snowboard instructor who has permission to teach independent lessons at Mt Bachelor, so I think I can speak for all of us (and for K T who is also a certified instructor) when I say, your apology is appreciated and accepted. You have shown your heart is in the right place and that you can learn from your mistakes. Now, we just need to work on that darn "target fixation". People tend to go where they are looking. So, if they are overly focused on a person/obstacle then they tend to collide with that object because they are focused on it, even if they are trying to avoid it. Suggestion: stop starring at the cute girls ;) (LOL) and focus on the gaps between the people and/or the gaps between the trees. Hope to see you and the rest of the Reno crew next year. Don

SOLD !

The teeth on the discs are in 3 degree increments, so if you start at zero degrees (it should be easy to line the arrows on the binding and the disc to zero) then turn the disc one tooth at a time until you get the angle you want. Then, mount the binding and disc to the board without moving the disc (example: moving the disc ten teeth from zero equals 30 degrees).

Sold !

So, it sounds like I would have a hard time convincing you to ride a double black diamond run with me.Look at all the fun single and double black diamond runs at http://www.snowbasin.com/images/trail_maps/mtn_trail_map_w.jpg Blue runs are fun but they can get boring. Black runs are more challenging – just like a blue run is more challenging than a green run. Once you have perfected your skills on a blue run then it is a logical progression to learn the next level, which for some is the ability to make linked pure carved turns on a black diamond run in control. Also, as bobdea indicated, not all black runs are the same – there is no industry standard, so the rating of difficulty is usually relative to the ski area – some black runs are much easier than others. However, one of the problems is that some people attempt to ride a black run before they have developed enough fundamental skills to do it in control. Once you have acquired the skills and confidence to carve on steep blue runs then advancing to a black run will not be so intimidating. Take it one step at a time and build upon your skills, and one day you might want to learn how to carve on black diamond runs. Lessons from a good instructor are also very beneficial. Personally, I like the challenge, the variety, the thrill/speed, and it gives you a workout that can’t be match on the easier slopes. Don

My experience has been that if you call Burton Rider Services at 1-800-881-3138 and ask them nicely then they will usually send a pair of the new universal discs (has 3 and 4 hole pattern) for free. Also, most shops that sell Burton bindings have extra discs.

At Mt Bachelor, Cow's Face and Osprey Way are considerably steeper than Beverly Hills. Beverly Hills is long but overall it's moderately steep (it's only a blue run - see the trail map link below) http://www.mtbachelor.com/winter/services/terrain_info/trail_map/trailmap.jpg However, the Men's Start and downhill runs at Snowbasin's Allen's Peak get my vote for some of the steepest and longest groomed runs in the US http://snowbasin.com/images/trail_maps/mtn_trail_map_w.jpg

New Furi Cat photo: That Cat may be bigger but my money is on the new and improved Furi

That’s what I thought until I got on this board, I have been waiting for a durable and lively metal board that has the right amount of camber and this board has it all. It was meant to be funny, but I’m also getting older so I need every advantage I can get. Thanks!

I demoed the SG Race Pro Team 178 Titanal. About me: Weight: 137 Height: 5’ 7” Different binding angles used for this test: front foot 54-60, back foot 48-57 SG Race Pro Team 178 Titanal specs and construction info: Overall length: 1780 Running length: 1490 Waist: 191 Sidecut radius: 14 The quality of construction was excellent: The titanal is protected by a top sheet which provides binding/dent/chip protection and long-lasting durability. The nose/front of the board has reverse camber/rocker (like a Kessler and Coiler schtubby) so it glides into the turn even if you throw-down really hard on the nose, and it easily releases/disengages the edge for fluid or radical edge changes. In my opinion, the amount of camber was perfect, it was just right for making the board snappy/lively with useful rebound that can be used for extra acceleration and/or for fast edge changes. However, this board still has the dampening qualities and edge hold that make the metal boards desirable. The board was obviously designed for people that are heavier than me but I found it to have the correct flex for my alpine riding technique. I usually like to ride boards that are designed for people in the 150-180 pound range, and this board felt like it had medium/moderate stiffness with no hard or dead spots, which is what I like. The test ride: I rode it for about 2 hours early Sunday morning on the last day of OES. The conditions ranged from firm groomed, 4-6” of untracked powder in the trees, and choppy/bumpy cut-up snow. From the very first turn I felt totally comfortable on this board. So, I took it through the trees to make some powder turns and the board floated and turned with ease. I also tested it in the chop and bumpy stuff and it went through it like I was on groomed snow. On the groomed snow it was absolutely the best metal (and non-metal) board I have been on, it easily completed every turn radius imaginable and it felt like it would be competitive in a slalom course even though it is a GS board. The edge hold was amazing and when I wanted to, I could use the camber to power out of a race turn and make the board feel like it had a turbo booster. I even enjoyed carving it switch (yea, I do stupid things like that on alpine boards), however the first attempt was not successful – oops, I forgot the edges were not beveled or detuned. Board comparison: In my opinion, when compared to the Prior WCR Metal the SG Race Pro Team Titanal is more fun, more versatile, and more durable because of its camber and construction method. When compared to the Madd Metal 158 ( Shred has an excellent review of the Madd that I agree with here http://bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=189129 ) the SG Race Pro Team Titanal is more versatile, and has the correct/beneficial amount of camber (the Madd’s camber is a lot of fun but it is a bit excessive). When compared to a metal Coiler, in my opinion, the Coilers also utilize an impressive and durable construction method but the SG Race Pro Team Titanal seems to be a little snappier because of its camber. However, I have not tested the newer Coiler designs so please take that into consideration (I think Coilers are excellent boards). Ready to Race: This board is ready to race right out of the wrapper. In fact, a lot of men’s and women’s World Cup races have been won this year on the SG Race Pro Team Titanal boards, which is probably making the Kessler crew a little worried. On a personal note, I was excited to hear that the board I rode was being shipped to Mike Kildevaeld (Kildy) who is coming out of retirement to qualify for the Olympics (go Kildy)! Additional comments: I could not find anything negative about the construction or performance of this board, but it would be nice if it also came in a wider width for people with larger feet. However, my boots are size 27.5 and I tested this board with angles as low as 54 front and 48 back, which made my toes overhang a bit, but even when I was way up on edge my toes never dragged on the snow. This board is fun, fast, lively, easy to control, and it was amazingly versatile! Is this a board I want in my quiver and would ride on a regular basis? Yes, this would be my primary alpine board! Would I recommend this board to others? Yes, unless we’re going to end up racing each other, then you need to get one of those slower boards. If this review sounds like I am bragging then I’m sorry because that is not my intention or part of my personality, I’m just totally stoked about this board. If this review sounds too good to be true, or if you think this sounds like a bunch of B.S. then all I can say is, there were a lot of people who witnessed me ride this board. Obviously, I don’t have a lot of posts on this forum and some people relate post count to creditability and skill/knowledge level, but I have been reluctant to talk about myself or post my resume because I don’t want to sound like I am trying to impress people. However, I also understand that most of you do not know anything about me so here are a few facts: I have been snowboarding for 22 years (most of it as a professional). I have worked with Burton, PSIA/AASI, several ski resorts and ski/snowboard schools. I have worked as an equipment tester, technical representative, rider/competitor, coach, examiner, divisional clinic leader, level 3 instructor, and ski resort snowboard supervisor. I hope that my review of this board has been helpful. Don Richter

More OES photos from Etsu: 1. Baptiste, Hugh, Matt, Abel and Eric sampling the local brews 2. Dan at Mike’s on Saturday night 3. Don and Quentin at Mike’s on Saturday night

More OES photos from Etsu: 1. Ladia 2. Ron 3. Jim

More OES photos from Etsu: 1. Sean and Steve 2. Sylvan and Sandy 3. Dan and Greg

Hi Bonnie (snowboardmommy) welcome to the forum. Here are some more photos from Etsu: 1. Baptiste and Allen 2. Some of the Coiler carvers – Mike, Russell and Randy T 3. Kenny (KT) and Rebecca

It was a cold and windy Unofficial Day 7 with dust on hard-pack with a few shinny spots but it was still good carving conditions (photos taken by Etsu): 1. From left to right: Alberta, Buell, Don (I think my board blew away), Mike, Rebecca and Garrett. 2. Buell and Mike (check out the matching disco boots and boards). 3. The local crew reminiscing OES 2008 and contemplating how to make OES 2009 even better.