Anyone try conform'able foam injected liners?

[snow|3oarder]

Im wondering if these are worth the relatively steep price.

[bobdea]

they have a somewhat similar system, they do work pretty well if you demand high performance

some boots prefer a tongued liner and others a wrap around so keep this in mind when you choose what model liner you want

[snow|3oarder]

i'm contemplating putting these in the head stratos pros. I'm not sure if they fit in my 31.5 boots, but I will find out.

My heel tends to have some movement in my boot, and that Is why I am considering liners. This causes some irritation by my ankle. Do you think that getting liners will minimize heel movement?

[Scorpio]

a more cost effective solution to heel movement would be to get ankle pads.

http://www.tognar.com/boot_heater_warmer_fitting_dryer_canting_dryers_ski_snowboard.html#SPK-LP3

[Sinecure]

Snow|3oarder,

Before you go that route, I'd recommend getting Surefoot or someone to make you a custom footbed. That should be able to take up some of the heel slop you have, and if you have Surefoot do the work, they'll also do any additional work necessary to get the boots to fit right. Surefoot loves to sell Conform'able liners so if you do end up taking that route, they'll be happy to help you. The Conformable liners would fit fine in your Stratos Pros since both the Head liner and the Sidis one have traditional tongues. I haven't tried it, but my suspicion is that the Conform'ables will make your boots feel stiffer overall. If you go that route, let us know what you think of the results.

I'm very happy with my Head boots with Surefoot insoles in them. There's a Surefoot in NYC.

[Kent]

Im wondering if these are worth the relatively steep price.

What brand are you looking at?

IMO, I wouldn't get foam (or silicon) injected liners for snowboard boots.

1) Price

2) Messy

3) Too snug for the average hardbooter (toecaps only solve 15% of the issue)

4) Too stiff for the average hardbooter

5) Not made for the movements of hardbooting

6) Typically can't be customized after injection w/o screwing everything up again

I'm not familiar with customizing your boots, but here's my recommendation (drum roll please).

a) Custom insole

b) Heat moldable liner (Raichle/Intution/etc)

c) Seeing a fitter about modifying your existing liver (The reason this is my last choice is so you have something to fall back on if a and b don't work). If you let some shop hack apart your liners as the 1st resort, you may be screwed.

Liners would certainly help heel movement, but it depends on your foot same. Do you have a high or low arch? With an overlap boot like th Strato, the insole is perhaps going to hold your foot down more than a new liner...but that's based upon not seeing your foot and a wild-ass'd guess from working in a shop for 10 years.

K

[D-Sub]

c) Seeing a fitter about modifying your existing liver

typos are awesome!

[snow|3oarder]

Snow|3oarder,

Before you go that route, I'd recommend getting Surefoot or someone to make you a custom footbed. That should be able to take up some of the heel slop you have, and if you have Surefoot do the work, they'll also do any additional work necessary to get the boots to fit right. Surefoot loves to sell Conform'able liners so if you do end up taking that route, they'll be happy to help you. The Conformable liners would fit fine in your Stratos Pros since both the Head liner and the Sidis one have traditional tongues. I haven't tried it, but my suspicion is that the Conform'ables will make your boots feel stiffer overall. If you go that route, let us know what you think of the results.

I'm very happy with my Head boots with Surefoot insoles in them. There's a Surefoot in NYC.

I actually already have custom insoles from surefoot. I went there today and dropped of my boots. They arleady streched the shells because one of my ankles is big and creates a pressure point against the shell. While the first stretching helped alot, I still have some residual pain. I also began to notice that I have a decent amount of heel slop. I did try some of those ankle pads that are adhered to the back of the liner, and they didnt help much. Maybe if I play around a little more they will work better.

Realizing that my heel moves around quite a bit - coupled with the observation that I didnt have any pain when my liners werent packed in - its possible that the boots may even be a little to big for me. Im going to check on that when I pick up my boot tomorrow. I thoguht that liners might be able to solve that problem.

I am also concerned about hte stiffnes of the foam injected liners. If i can find a thermofit that fits the head, that seems like a better alternative. Both types that bomber sells come in a 31, so that should fit, right?

those eliminator tongue shims from tognar seem like a possible fix. has anyone tried them?

if i order the thermofit liners, is there a bootfitter at Sugarloaf that can help me out during ECES?

[Sinecure]

IMO, if you paid Surefoot $190 for their custom insoles, they should do whatever is necessary to make the boot fit properly. That would include any shims to get rid of heel slop.

That said, Conform'able liners are great. They'll probably hurt a lot the first few days, but then be terrific. I've used Thermoflex liners before, but never in Head boots. They'll probably be fine, but I like the Head liners so far.

[peter_x]

I have the Conform'able foam-injected liners. They do seem stiff... for example, it seemed to me, when trying them on in my room, that it hardly mattered whether my boots (Raichle SB413's) were locked or in walk mode. However, on the hill there is a difference.

My feet have precious little room in the liners, however, I have only been on them a few days so I think they may pack out some more. One annoying thing is that even though I used the toe caps on both feet, my right foot has less toe room than my left (can hardly wiggle at all, really). I am also using the Conform'able footbeds that D-sub sold us. The cost for buying and molding the liners (+molding the footbeds) was $325. I got it done at Sundown Ski in Greenvale, Long Island.

Not much heel lift, which is great. Does anyone know if the liners are supposed to be removable? They seem stuck pretty good in my boots:eek:

[snow|3oarder]

IMO, if you paid Surefoot $190 for their custom insoles, they should do whatever is necessary to make the boot fit properly. That would include any shims to get rid of heel slop.

That said, Conform'able liners are great. They'll probably hurt a lot the first few days, but then be terrific. I've used Thermoflex liners before, but never in Head boots. They'll probably be fine, but I like the Head liners so far.

I will request tongue shims tomorrow. This is frustrating! But its worth it.

If the tongue shims wont do the trick, i'm leaning more and more to the thermofit liners.

[Nickie]

I have the formable liners. They DO pack out and as of now (my second season in them) I put those toe warmers on just to keep my toes and feet from moving. IMO -They are not messy, are not too snug and they do work for the movement of hardbooting and I feel are worth the price The best benefit from them is that I finally do not have any heel lift. The worst part is that they are not warm AT ALL! I never use to have an issue with cold toes and now I do.

[Horseman]

I have Head Stratos and use a thermoflex liner. The shell is 26-26.5 and I used a 26 liner. The fit of liner and shell is fine. I have very thin ankles and used some adhesive rubber around the ankle bones to hold the heel down. I also use the tongue pads. Basically, my ankle is thin enough that I have to have all that in there and have the top buckle at its tightest setting to hold everything down. I do not have a custom footbed but this would likely help as well.

I'm glad you started this thread as I've been looking into injected liners myself as a solution to my heel and ankle movement. I have found thermoflex to be very comfortable but somewhat squishy and seem to be constantly wishing I had something more responsive. I would add, though, that I could likely manage a size smaller shell and that may be the major contributing factor.

[peter_x]

I have the formable liners. They DO pack out and as of now (my second season in them) I put those toe warmers on just to keep my toes and feet from moving. IMO -They are not messy, are not too snug and they do work for the movement of hardbooting and I feel are worth the price The best benefit from them is that I finally do not have any heel lift. The worst part is that they are not warm AT ALL! I never use to have an issue with cold toes and now I do.

I'll second that, they are not very warm. What kind of warmer are you using?

[Nickie]

Peter,

I use the Hotronics as well as those disposable toe warmers. Now that it's warmer outside, I don't need the battery heaters. Even with all that protective gear from the cold, if the temp drops below 25, my toes still go numb.

[snow|3oarder]

hmmm....im decently big at 220-230. Are those thrmoflex liners really squishy? perhaps the conform'able ones would be ok due to my weight.

[nils]

i have them too, but in my good old SB121 raichle. The foam is firm but it is like a glove, and gives the boot the little stiffness it is lacking for carving. When i use them for freeriding, i just untight the boot, and the room i have then is enough for comfy riding. When i want to race down full speed on groom, i just buckle them tighter.

Advice 1: Use a thicker sock as usual when doing the injection, this way you will have a very small room left around the feet when using your regular socks

Advice 2: Well, if you do not follow the advice 1, be ready to open the buckles after each slope that you raced a bit hard! ( pressure gets unbearable from the effort)...This is why you see many racers open the buckles after their runs...

Sidas now makes a softer foam version, but its available only at the main factory near Grenoble, France, and i assume its a bit far for you :).. But it seems a new way to go when not racing!

Nils

[Guest jschal01]

To the o.p.:

You're talking about going to your 3d bootfitter in roughly 3 weeks at the ECES, and in the meantime trying to make more bootfitting decisions for yourself after looking at advice here, after having dropped your boots off a 2d time at Surefoot. That's kind of like carrying your turkey around to three different restaurants to get it roasted on Thanksgiving.

It sounds like the first bootfitter you went too was not easily accessible for a return visit? A guy you visit at ECES would not be, either, in all likelihood. Bootfitting often takes several visits, particularly if you sized your shells right to begin with...and you are not being fair to any bootfitter or yourself if you don't stay the course through the process (assumming they're not proprosing toe amputation or something else really whack).

So, my 2 cents, rather than speaking to foam or Zip Fits, etc. directly is: get thee back to Surefoot, which sounds accessible, talk to them, and work it through with them.

[Kent]

I have the formable liners. They DO pack out and as of now (my second season in them) I put those toe warmers on just to keep my toes and feet from moving. IMO -They are not messy, are not too snug and they do work for the movement of hardbooting and I feel are worth the price The best benefit from them is that I finally do not have any heel lift. The worst part is that they are not warm AT ALL! I never use to have an issue with cold toes and now I do.

I think we need to go back and ask for clarification. Formable EVA Foam and polyurethane injected liners are totally different.

Injected lines have nifty little tubes running through the back and out the front......**** flies everywhere. Although, it has become an art these days.

If you have Surefoot insoles...I would consider your ankle issue now their problem they need to deal with. Don't let other shops monkey with another's problem. Go back and tell them to get it right.

However, if you boots are too big.....you're best to gather your losses and start over.

K

(edited - goof'd my verbiage)

[Skwalleur]

Im wondering if these are worth the relatively steep price.

They are really cold compared to Thermoflex anyway.

[Nickie]

I think we need to go back and ask for clarification. Formable liners and EVA Foam injected liners are totally different.

I have the foam injected liners, not the thermoflex or formable liners. I see I didn't word my sentence right...

I'm thinking about switching out the injectable for the thermoflex though.

[snow|3oarder]

To the o.p.:

You're talking about going to your 3d bootfitter in roughly 3 weeks at the ECES, and in the meantime trying to make more bootfitting decisions for yourself after looking at advice here, after having dropped your boots off a 2d time at Surefoot. That's kind of like carrying your turkey around to three different restaurants to get it roasted on Thanksgiving.

It sounds like the first bootfitter you went too was not easily accessible for a return visit? A guy you visit at ECES would not be, either, in all likelihood. Bootfitting often takes several visits, particularly if you sized your shells right to begin with...and you are not being fair to any bootfitter or yourself if you don't stay the course through the process (assumming they're not proprosing toe amputation or something else really whack).

So, my 2 cents, rather than speaking to foam or Zip Fits, etc. directly is: get thee back to Surefoot, which sounds accessible, talk to them, and work it through with them.

I dont appreciate being accused of "not being fair" to any of these people, especially when all of the detailed facts are not laid out. The first bootfitter I went to simply was not good. The people at surefoot are good, but they will not install a thermoflex liner. My pain is at the level where it is prohibitively painful. I can only snowboard one day and then I have to stop. Therefore, I am trying to fix this as soon as possible.

If my boots are truly too big, and all the shims in the world dont help, then im probably going to go for the thermofit liner if such a liner would help. In the worst case im going to buy new boots. In the best case some tongue shims and the overnight stretchign will help.

[Guest jschal01]

I dont appreciate being accused of "not being fair" to any of these people, especially when all of the detailed facts are not laid out. The first bootfitter I went to simply was not good. The people at surefoot are good, but they will not install a thermoflex liner. My pain is at the level where it is prohibitively painful. I can only snowboard one day and then I have to stop. Therefore, I am trying to fix this as soon as possible.

If my boots are truly too big, and all the shims in the world dont help, then im probably going to go for the thermofit liner if such a liner would help. In the worst case im going to buy new boots. In the best case some tongue shims and the overnight stretchign will help.

If your boots are too big, the new liner is not going to help you. Ask the guys at Surefoot to shellfit you, if your shells are in fact too big, fix that problem first -- meaning: buy shells that fit --and then go from there.

I didn't mean to say you were intentionally being unfair, but process-wise my point was that you were not giving either the initial bootfitter or Surefoot the chance to "finish baking the cake." I'm only giving advice anonymously on the internet, so take it fwiw, but you did post asking for the advice.

[Bobby Buggs]

I had conformable foam injected like the picture above. I would not want them in my carving boots. They were VERY firm and my feet froze in them. I have been in 3 pairs of Thermo fit styles and loved all of them. For the cost and convenience you cant go wrong with Thermofitting versions.

[k_t]

Every one has different feet, different boots, and different needs.

I had foam liners made for my boots. They are a bit on the heavy side and the stiff side, but what I like is that you put on your boots and they fit like a glove. My feet do not even begin to move around in my boots like I remember thermo fits can in what seems like a short time.

I also use a good custom foot bed (cannot remember the brand) which should only keep your foot from deforming and flattening out when you are pressuring it hard. I do not think that a foot bed will help heal movement. That should be the job of the liner. Grant it, it may take up more room in the boot making a tighter fit. It could be that I am lucky and do not get cold feet either. I do believe that keeping your core warm will increase the heat your body sends to you extremities'.

I also wear an AF700 which is already stiff, some of you in the AF600, 121/3/5 and 324/5 boots might not like the added stiffness.

I have over 2 years in my foamed 700's and the fit is just as good as the first day they were made. I almost changed back to the heat moldable liners (weight and flex) but was told by my boot fitter that I would never have the heal hold down that I have gotten from the foam injected liners that I am using now.

There, another experience...............another thought..........

kt