Bail entropy

[lamby]

Just a heads up - plate binding bails may fail after many days of use. If you purchase used bindings you may want to consider replacing the bails.

I’ve been snowboarding for 27 years and using plate bindings and hard boots for the last 25. I used to break bails after about 300 days of use. I don’t use them that long anymore. I replace the bails with new ones or purchase new bindings at that point.

I mark my bindings with purchase date or when I last changed out the bails to new. Doing that allows me to know how many seasons/days of use, I have on them. With that I know when its time to change out the bails or use new bindings.

My wife who is 110 lbs. (dripping wet) and who is not a “hard-carver” (I'm not either, any more). She rides over 100 days a year and has broke bails about three times. She no longer breaks bails, as I changes out her bails or get her on new bindings before they are too worn (she likes Carve Company Speed CC bindings).

Its my understanding that metal bails fail due to metal fatigue. This can be demonstrated by a simple experiment. Take a metal coat hanger and repeatedly bend it back and forth at the same point. As you do this, you'll notice the hanger changes behavior – at the location of the bending, it becomes stiffer and more brittle with each bend. This experiment is similar to the cyclic loading that snowboard bindings endure, causing microscopic structural changes within the metal over time.

When you repeatedly bend something like a coat hanger or a snowboard binding bail, it's as if the tiny atoms in the metal are aligning themselves, almost like soldiers standing shoulder to shoulder in a neat formation. This alignment makes the metal structure less random and less strong. Over time, this organized alignment makes the metal more vulnerable to breaking.

Best, lamby

[ShortcutToMoncton]

What bindings?

[lamby]

Have broken bails on Burton Race Plate/Ibex/Carve Company type. I have also broken bails on Bomber Trench Diggers. I later went to Trench Digger II bindings and did not break bails, but did change out the bails after several seasons of use. I now ride primarily F2 Titanium and have not broken bails, but I do not have many days on them. Will change out before they are old.

[st_lupo]

Just to add more data, I broke a toe bail on an F2 Race Ti after approximately 5 years of riding.  I keep thinking I should make wire leashes that clip from the boot to both the toe and heel bails so that one of the bails fails, the board is still at least loosely attached to two feet and hopefully keeps me from twisting off one of my knees.

 

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Agreed that after a few years and/or getting up past 100 days, I’d be checking any new binding carefully on a regular basis, even more so if you’re a beefy guy or ride heavy. Nothing lasts forever, especially when you’re levering it a few thousand times a winter. 

I will point out that a some of those bindings first listed are 20-to-30 years old (I remember lusting after the “new” TD2s after they came out, what, 20+ years ago?). And some of those bindings had thinner bails in the first place. The IBEX/Carve Company Bindings had notoriously terrible bails and I still can’t believe they made a product were they used to tell you to replace them 1-2 times per season. 

Personally I wouldn’t touch any Burton Race / IBEX / Carve Company products with a proverbial 10-foot pole regardless of use history. And I’d even be pretty careful with the otherwise bombproof but getting-super-old Bomber and Catek bails, too.

check ‘em twice and ride hard!!

[Aracan]

The new CC bails available from Carver's Paradise are notably different from the old ones. I am no expert, but they look a lot more trustworthy.

[Odd Job]

My current SG bindings are going strong after about 200 riding days. But this post has me paranoid....

[lamby]

Yes, the bindings pictured are old. Some 20 plus years ago I was riding riding them as new, or used, and breaking bails after some period of use. That is when I started replacing bails with new after a period of use. I saved the old bindings and parts that are in the photo, as I've just been lazy about unloading them. I also was reluctant to replace a broken bail and then sell the bindings, as the un-replaced, but unbroken bails, may not be reliable.

I started this thread about this topic after having made a comment about such potential failure, and the need to inspect your equipment for wear, on another thread. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so started this one.

Back in the day, I went from using Burton Race Plate binds, to using Bomber Trench Diggers. I loved the beefier bails on the trench diggers. The bindings were much stiffer than the Burtons, changing the way my boards rode in subtle ways. A very capable binding that I thought might be indestructible. Wrong, I rode them hard and for too long, breaking a bail. Changed out all the bails and all was good.

My next bindings were Trench Digger twos. Very strong bails and an improved attachment system from bail to binding base plate. I traded out bails on those after about 300 days of use. Never broke a bail.

I now ride mostly F2 Titaniums. I'm occasionally using Ibex/Carve Company bindings. (My split is mounted up with Phantom's.)

My wife likes the flexy feel and low profile of the Ibex/Carve Company bindings. I think she likes the colors they come in too:-) I was looking at their site recently where they state that they are using an improved hardening/tempering process in the manufacture of their bails, which they suggest changing out after 50 days of use. That seems so short of a time for replacement, but perhaps they are covering some liability concerns. But, maybe a number like 50 days is not so off the wall. If you were able to ride all day long for 50 days, you might get in 300 hours of riding on them. (lifts open 9 - 4:30 = 7.5 hours a day of riding x 50 days = 375 hours of potential time on the hill).

I change out the bails on Ibex/Carve Company bindings after about three seasons of use. We ride about 100 days a year.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Yesh, the manufacturer recommends to change the bails after 50 days of “regular use”…….

They probably have to state that outright on their advertising or else potentially be liable under consumer goods laws around durability. Honestly, wtf kind of product is likely to break within a season? And I find it amazing that the solution has never been to make larger bails that could be more robust, because apparently that would be a bridge too far…. I see zero reason to ever buy their bindings over an F2 Carve RS, if even more binding flex is what you’re after.