is the east coast really that bad?

[jtslalom]

Although this happened in the 1990-91 season, it definately applies to skating powder flats. My brother-in-law and I were in the mongolian or sun down bowl at Vail, I can't remember which one. We dropped in a steep part that leveled off and then got steep again (not real steep though). I knew enough to tuck the steep so I would coast through the flat. I was successful, my bro was not. He was about 100 yards from me and was having difficulty skating through the deep snow, so he took his board off and pushed it along as he waded through the snow. Well the board caught some momentum and took off towards me. I made an attempt to stop it but I missed. The board flew down the slope at mach 10 speed and after a few seconds it was gone. What sucked was that it was a Sims blade. It was a 90% white board with a couple of colered graphics. I went down to look for it but it was lost. Well, my bro ended up leaving with out a board but fortunately for him they found it before any big snowfalls came. They mailed it back to him. Powder flats suck!

[Miguel]

I'm from the great state of New Yawk and of course I like powder....I mean who doesn't. True ice...I hate...but when it comes to carving I like it just soft enough to get a good bite and no softer. For instance on Saturday at Okemo we got some nice powder on Saturday so I broke out the wider board and just floated all day. The next day it was all groomed out but it still sucked for carving because it was just too soft.

I've never rode out west except for Whistler and that felt about the same as here. I've always wondered what it was like in Colorado, Utah etc, does it firm up real well or does it remain on the soft side? I just feel more confident on hard snow. Is that just because I'm a Easterner?

[D-Sub]

it firms up pretty nicely. Ive seen "too soft for carving" plenty of times, yes. definitely like the 3 days after a storm stuff!

[Mike T]

Western snow is often that ideal "firm but edgable" variety, as long as it is groomed well and you wait a couple of days after a dump.

The Pacific Northwest and lower elevations at Tahoe (e.g., bottom of Mountain Run at Squaw) can get downright east coast-like at times, especially early and late season when there is a nightly freeze-thaw cycle. This happens especially when runs are groomed just after closing - they freeze solid.

I suspect we all have trouble carving on soft groomed after a big dump, when it hasn't been buffed out yet - on the other hand, if it's a few inches soft groomed or slush over even hardpack, it can be a blast. Just takes some getting used to. I probably make my best turns in 3" of slush over hardpack. You get a lot of practice on that at the Hood!

[Phil]

"I probably make my best turns in 3" of slush over hardpack."

The forecast indicates that we will have these conditions the rest of our season. (two weeks:( )

[wavechaser]

slush over hardpack at Hood? No, you're kidding...:rolleyes:

Ahhhhhh...memories!

[Guest Mark Jeangerard]

When the soft gets hairy is when it's just packed down enough to get your confidence up then you turn on to a trail or section that's inconsistent...

Fooonk!

In goes the nose.

I like carving in the fresh pow... then I wait two or three days.

[kinpa]

You know, it almost seems like comparing apples and oranges.... each type of conditions have pros and cons and I think it's all a matter of what you are used to. I lived in Pennsylvania just about all my life, but I've been in Montana for 3 years now. Still, even after 3 years here, I find myself sticking to the groomed runs because that's what I'm used to. (Most of my home mountain seems to have double fall lines, so that's a whole different challenge! That and all the cat-tracks and flat parts that you need to navigate!) Before I got out here I never had the chance to venture in the trees much and powder days back in PA are nothing like powder days out here! Yes, we still get icy conditions at time.... or windblown hardpack which is basically the same as ice. For me, just being at a bigger mountain has presented many new challenges... like getting top to bottom without having to stop too many times! So, once again, I'll say IT'S ALL JUST A MATTER OF WHAT YOU ARE USED TO!

[Allee]

I'm sure this is a hangover from when I was learning ... I learned really fast that ice leaves you black and blue when you crash on it. Every time I see ice now, it just psyches me out really badly.

It's only sensible that riding in all sorts of conditions makes you a much better rider, but if I lived on the East Coast, I don't think I'd snowboard.

As Kathy says, it's all what you're used to ... and I'm used to the lovely mountains of Banff, where the runs are huge and go for miles, and the snow is firm and squeaky. Sometimes even in May.

;)

But having said that, I had a GREAT three days at Stratton in January and the conditions were awesome.

[Kirk]

The Pacific Northwest and lower elevations at Tahoe (e.g., bottom of Mountain Run at Squaw) can get downright east coast-like at times, especially early and late season when there is a nightly freeze-thaw cycle. This happens especially when runs are groomed just after closing - they freeze solid.

Yep. Observed this in UT, So. Cal and CO as well. Early season and spring time can really run the gammut as far as snow conditions. Real hard/icy in AM (about 9 to 11/11:30), small window where its just right and after about 1:30 PM or so, its mashed taters and slush:rolleyes: Already had several days of that this season - the warmer weather makes the whole experience pretty darn pleasant though!

[gdboytyler]

If I ever end up at an East Coast ski resort for a couple days, I think I would actually wish for the stereotypical ice coast day. Just to see what all the hype is about.

I've had around 20 days/nights of snowboarding in MI and the snow gets super hard. People would call it icy, but it wasn't ice.

Only one night did I see an actual patch of ice on the run that was of considerable size. It was about 20 yards wide and 100 yards long. It looked like it was caused by a snow gun malfunction. Some crazy skiers were traversing the ice patch at high speed, but no one was taking the fall line down the ice patch.

So when people say you need ice skates for an "icy" day on the east coast, I just take that as an exaggeration.

[Neil Gendzwill]

When I say "ice" I mean it's blue/clear and you can see through it to the snow. When I say "glazed" I mean it's opaque but it's got a crust worn to a glossy finish. When I say "hard" I mean it's super-compacted and compressed (and often composed of man-made snow) but no crust and most people could put an edge into it if they weren't panicking and skidding across it.

Saw all three of these in abundance at Panorama a couple of weeks ago.

[Guest jeremiah]

Personally, when I refer to "ice" on the east coast, I am generally referring to very, very hard, glazed snow. As in hard enough that even with a fresh tune you can't really edge it.

However there have been days at certain resorts where certain runs have patches of clear, blue ice. I spent a weekend at Jay Peak after a rainstorm followed by an icestorm, followed by a minor snowdump. One the exposed slopes it was literally nothing but clear, blue ice. All the snow that fell on top of the ice was blown into the trees, which made the trees very nice, but the access into them extremely hazardous.

Growing up in the west, and generally skiing/riding smaller, local resorts, I've seen my share of sketchy conditions, but it just doesn't get regularly bulletproof like the east coast. Again, a large part of it is number of customers at a resort. A 600 acre resort in the east may have 8 high-speed lifts (quads, 6-packs, gondolas) plus another 6-8 low speed and/or drag lifts.

I just checked and Loveland Colorado has a total of 8 lifts for over 1300 acres. Compare that with Stratton Vermont which has ~550 acres with 14 lifts. Assuming that they have similar average lift capacity (and I'm sure that Stratton is actually higher), Stratton has almost twice the lift capacity but only 40% of the terrain. In other words, they will generally have 4 times the skiers per acre. Combine less snow, wider temp swings, and much greater traffic and you end up with some nasty conditions.

Of course no matter how icy it is, it still beats work.

Jeremiah

[Aisling]

Originally posted by Allee

I'm sure this is a hangover from when I was learning ... I learned really fast that ice leaves you black and blue when you crash on it. Every time I see ice now, it just psyches me out really badly.

oh... Allee... here's a funny story. when i was taking my first riding lessons ever... it was at night. on basically... ICE.

ya know that whole learning curve thing where your first day you fall about a gazillion times? oh yeah. picture that at night on ice.

but i kept getting back up and going for more.

my instructor looked at me in awe and said , "damn. you REALLY want to snowboard don't you?"

haha

[Chubz]

Tyler

I think it is important to identify that the "whole mountain" on EC resorts are not something the NY Rangers are playing on. It mostly comes in patches and areas that are continually scraped day after day and subject to thaw and freeze. And I dont think it is "hype", it is just a variable condition , that little, if any skiers/boarders like to ride on. That would be like me saying Utah powder is a bunch of "hype". It's not, it exists and so does our less than perfect conditions.

I have stopped and looked at ice patches up close, I would say that if you flattened the hill, one could literally lace up the Bauers and skate around on the typical ice patches that arise on some of our mountains. I have also seen entire slopes become rinks where the skier rider population is abundant and the conditions allow it to happen.

When dealing with "patchy" ice it creates a booby trap effect in that you could start a nice carve or do several carves and then hit the ice, which causes an quick loss of balance and break in form, thus creating a level of frustration b/c I think everyone likes doing smooth, solid carves. Generally, if you are there for first chair at any, if not most EC resorts, you will get good, carvable snow until the masses skin the hill of its cord and Mr. Boilerplate appears.

I am totally confident that if you ever get the chance to embrace such conditions, you will be able to adjust your riding style to be able to handle the ice, it just doesnt permit extremecarving.com type of turns. If you can, then let me know what you're riding and who your tuner is. I think we could all agree that "Hero" snow is much better than than less optimal conditions, i.e EC Boiler.

[gdboytyler]

From the replys, it sounds like the Midwest snow conditions are very similar to East Coast conditions.

The biggest difference is the size of the resort. Mt. Brighton and Alpine Valley in MI, that are by my parent's house has around 300ft of vertical. Mt. Brighton should be sued for false advertisement for using Mt. in their title.

Still, riding around a tiny hill is better than watching TV during the occasional holiday visit.

[gdboytyler]

Originally posted by Chubz

...you will be able to adjust your riding style to be able to handle the ice, it just doesnt permit extremecarving.com type of turns.

According to this recent report, Zinal, the Extremecarving.com resort of choice, has East Coast like conditions:

http://www.tahoecarvers.com/riders/forum/read_TC.php?f=1&i=4957&t=4957