need help

[frochild]

I live for carving but.......

I love the ungroomed steep stuff and think that my hard boots and board was never ment for it. Has anyone here been to Gore mountain in ny? There is one hill, called the rumor very very steep and very bumpy (naturaly) and I cannot board it very well like people with soft boots. Also, I really like ungroomed stuff and I seem to stuggle way too much becuase it does not allow for much absorption of energy causing and inability for true carves and a ton of lower back pain. I should say though that I have been boarding for 14 years, 8 on hard boots and consider myself able to board just about anything without a problem. I guess what I am asking is, do I need more practice or is this a problem other people with plates encounter? Also, if there is a board that might help someone like me I would apreciate it.

[frochild]

I should also add that I have a burton e-deck 63 which I thought was designed for this kind of thing

[ar(angel]

in fact I just got home from my local hill where it was nothing but "mashed potatoes". I actually have a harder time carving steeps when they're hard and packed (un-groomed) So I'd say you just might have to work on your technique. I do find that a softer board in the crud is better for control, the new Oxygen I just picked up loved it, but my F2 was harder to control and less forgiving as is my Burner. My steep riding needs improvement for sure, maybe I've just spent to much time on the blue groomers and mash-potato greens? Do you ride a really stiff board? What are you're angles like? All this plays a part, I know from experimentation. One last thing, when I'm fresh (as in first couple runs of the day) I find that even if there is chop or mush, I just commit to the turn and keep my board on edge to "bust" or "slice" through the piles of snow. This year I've been alot better at not losing control if I just tell myself to plow right through it instead of backing off and flattening out.

Good luck,

Paul

[philistine]

I experience this same sort of thing. Boots, bindings, board, stance, angle, I'm sure all these things contribute however I have a feeling technique is the thing I need to work on that will take me through rough stuff on plates.

I saw a video on ExtremeCarving.com of Patrice Fivat riding an alpine board through moguls and doing it extremely well... alot better than I could ever do with softboots.

Anyway, he mentioned somthing about it all being technique..

[willywhit]

Fro, welcome to BOL. I ride hard boots for steeps, woods and chunky stuff. Race boots don't work well but softer flex boots and squishier bindings (burton race plates) and a twin tip with a stiff nose and tail power through just about anything. Softies are good for powder but my ankles like a plastic shell much better. Race boots on the groomers, tho...and fast turns.

[frochild]

I appreciate the input, do you guys think that a boardercross board would be a worth while investment? ALso, if I wanted a stiffer and longer board than a 63 (I'm 5 10 188 lbs) would I be stuck doing nothing but groomed stuff?

[philfell]

Your e-deck should be fine for the type of riding you are doing. What boot/binding combo are you on?

[ar(angel]

I was actually trying to purchase one of the Oxygen Boards that guy had on ebay all the time, but they kept getting too pricey. I'm definitely interested in trying one, I just can't justify laying out the cash for one right now (it would cut into my Alpine habit:D ) The Palmer BoarderX boards are supposed to be nice too. As far as the stiffer longer board, you'll only limit yourself if you believe you can't take it into the crud or chop. Maybe I'm miss-understanding the kind of conditions you're specifically talking about, but there are longer boards that are softer that would perform well in sloppy/bumpy conditions. My old Rossi 171 Throttle comes to mind, a good long board, but soft and really easy to ride. I'll be posting my impressions of my new Oxygen 2002 LTD later and I feel it's a soft board that I could take anywhere on the mountain (I did today) and have fun on. I think you could ride whatever you want, you've just got to figure out if you want to go stiffer or softer for the runs you're wanting to ride.

Paul

[Guest Randy S.]

IMO, if it has bumps, it can't be that steep. Really steep stuff can't hold bumps. Hell, it barely holds snow.

Careful in Burton bindings on that stuff. I've pulled right out of the toe bail of my forward foot when executing a jump turn in a very steep chute.

As for bumps, I don't like them but only because I've had so many knee surgeries. I'd think a shorter (sub 170) freecarve board and softer boots or boots in walk mode should be fine. Just point it.

[Mike Tokar]

Haven't been to Gore in years, but I can relate to the ice-coast steep bump runs. The steep runs do hold bumps (no offense meant to the previous posts), and they're typically icy with little piles of snow on the uphill troughs, formed by skiers in panic mode going across the fall line, so there's no smooth zipper line.

I have a friend that loves riding bumps, and rules them in softies.

When I was telling him the trouble I have riding bumps (I was on a FP185 at the time), he said he wouldn't even take a race board and plates in there.

Sounds like you're on the right board. It could be that your boots are a bit stiff, and you're a glutton for punishment riding the most difficult run on the mountain.

What you're trying to do is tough, probably the toughest thing to do on a board, so keep at it and you'll get better.

MT

[Guest alakata]

well if youve never seen steep bumps i suggest you check out gore mtn. rumor - really steep and bumpy

[Phil]

"IMO, if it has bumps, it can't be that steep. Really steep stuff can't hold bumps. Hell, it barely holds snow."

Man it must be nice to have good snow. Bumps tend to get longer and crappier on steeps, but come on out east and we will show you what we are talking about. Maybe it is not your snow, but your lack of crowds all going down the same 50' wide slope.

I was on all of the mogul runs at Gore when I was there last year. I can't remember which was Rumor. I generally don't pay attention to names when I go places. Anyway, I would second the boot question. Your E-deck is great. Unless your boots are just too stiff, you probably need to work on your technique a little more. If it is causing you physical pain, you may want to forego rumor altogether. It is not worth getting hurt.

Did you find that you were able to do this stuff in your six years on softies?

[frochild]

I got a stiffer pair of ski boots only becuase they were the only ones that fit my feet (I have wierd feet and its not like they have these boots laying around), and they felt right at the time. They stiffness is 80?, so I guess it is not too bad, and I like the control they give me. I dont mind the pain as much as I think it means I might be able to do better. I would rather give up some things in oder to carve than to be able to do one or two steeps. ANd when I mean steeps this one had multiple 10-15 foot cliffs iced over. But I am always trying to find better ways to do things.

[Phil]

"ANd when I mean steeps this one had multiple 10-15 foot cliffs iced over."

Now I know which one you are talking about. I remember that well. I had a lot of fun there, but the bumps were very icy and had poor shape. And, yes, I remember the big icy drop offs.

This can be done in even stiff ski boots. I have really large feet and used to wear stiff ski boots because I could not find hardboots in my size. Even though it can be done (and can be done well), it is a lot more work than if you were on snowboard hardboots.

[bobdea]

a good binding like a td2 with the yellow rings or maybe snowpros, I would not want a binding that is going to fail on that sort of icey death feild

Boots I would go with something soft, the two boots I liked the best were the af 700/deeluxe indy with the springs removed(so all the stiffness comes from the tongue) and the spoilers on the calf removed with those two things done to the AF it is super soft

another boot that I felt great in the sketchy stuff in was the burton freecarve, check ebay I saw some freecarves on there for about $40

the problem with the freecarve is that its useless on longer stiffer boards on hardpack

I hate to recomend the other Raichle/Deeluxe boots because the cants really suck on them

Ski boots scare the hell out of me in everything but perfect conditions even then I am not a fan of them, they are like driving a car with NO suspension

years ago I broke my left Boot so I tried to ride in ski boots it sucked then what I ended up doin was riding with a ski boot in front and a Burton Fire in the rear that was ridable

the E-deck make sure its tuned well it is not a board that holds a edge well

if you upgrade a Coiler AM would work and is my choice most of the time

you could go with another all mountain carver or a BX deck a burton coil or wire might be worth a try and can be had really cheap

remember that is those conditions that you are talking about nothing is going to make you ride leaps and bounds better other than skill and strong legs

[Guest Randy S.]

For those of you that didn't like my post.

I grew up in NH. I snowboarded down Tuckerman Ravine in 1988 in soft boots with no high backs. Then again in 89 and 90 with hard boots (fairly soft AT boots). I've ridden some pretty steep stuff.

I'm sure the hill is steep and I'm certain it is difficult to ride. I hate east coast bumps more than anything. They are rock hard, sometimes the size of VWs and often have terrible lines because the skiers suck and don't take the zipper line.

I probably should have stayed out of this thread. Sorry if I offended anyone. Carry on.

[philw]

To answer the question, you need more practice. We have enough icy bumps from time to time out here in Urp, and that's why many of us ride hard gear. I seldom if ever see any people on soft gear in the bumps, and then they're either sitting on their baggy pants or sideslipping.

You have to pick your bumps and your conditions, just the same as skiers.

If you're disatisfied with your gear anyway then perhaps taking that out of the equation will help anyway.

[Guest jeremiah]

One thing that I've found helps is to keep your top buckles relatively loose, so that the tongue can slide around. This effectively softens the boots. Since you're in ski boots any softening will be a good thing.

In my Head boots I found that if I do the powerstrap a bit less tight than normal, and do the top buckle two notches less tight than normal, I get really good soft flex in the bumps. With the walk/ride levers in walk mode it's similar to softboots, but with a lot better fit on the lower part of the boot.

Jeremiah

[frochild]

Wow, you guys have given me some great information. I have found that I like to losen the top of my boots to ride softer stuff. I should say thought that I had a pair of Rachle snowboard boots that performed really poorly due to their lack of stiffness. When I put on these skiboots they just felt so right ( in the store). I feel like I have gained a ton of control but with many costs. And unlike before I feel like I can handle the board much better. It sounds like I could use a new board, but not that badly. I dont think I will trade the boots in, mostly becuase they were too expenseive and becuase I hope to get a long board to start racing and feel that these boots would do well in both situations.