Baka Dasai Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 If you were struggling to get your weight forward in turns, which of these would you do: <ol><li><p>Increase forward lean in your boots</p></li><li><p>Move your stance forward</p></li><li><p>Increase heel lift on rear binding/decrease toe lift on front binding</p></li><li><p>Learn to ride better - it's not about the equipment</p></li></ol> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 try riding with your boots in walk mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Your boot/binding set-up might be too stiff. Or you need to improve technique to use your hips to drive your turns more efficiently. A lot of times when riders try to get their weight forward they end up bending at the waist, so when they look down at their board they are visually more forward. But usually when you bend at the waist your hip move back in order to maintain balance. So you really aren't more forward your the same, but this time it' harder to get forward because your hips are so far in the back seat. Learn to use your hips to drive forward in your turns. But remember if your too far forward your tail gets light and it's hard to hold a clean carve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 4 (and ditto what the other Phil said) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Question for those of you who answerd with something other than option 2: what do you think his setback is now? :) Option 4 assumes that your setup is already in the ballpark. Unless you have some reason to believe that it is NOT the problem, why not make an adjustment and see if it helps or hurts? Perfect posture and perfectly aligned legs won't mean **** if your bindings are an inch behind where they ought to be. No amount of practice will fix that, except maybe by teaching you how to get by with a botched setup. Unless you're a masochist, I suggest tinkering with the setup to see if it's part of the problem. :) I moved my stance forward, and liked the results. So maybe I'm biased. But if your main problem is getting your weight far enough forward, moving the bindings forward may well take care of it. It only takes a few minutes to try it, and if you don't like the results it only takes a few minutes to put it back or try yet another setback. Personally I found that carving got easier and some other stuff (moguls especially) just felt weird. But I adjusted, and overall I like this better. I'm about 2cm aft of the center of the effective edge. I tried being centered but it felt too weird. The extremecarving guys like that though. What setback does everyone else here use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted January 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 I already ride my Raichles in powder mode. And my stance is already centered on the sidecut, 63f/55r, about 19.5" apart, Bomber 3 deg disks front and rear. Option 4's looking likely, huh? To be a bit more specific, the problem is worse on heelsides. I can drive my knees forward OK, but that doesn't seem to engage the heelside edge in the front half of the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleaman Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 have you tried riding with your front foot flat instead of 3 degrees? I used cants on my Coiler front and back, I thought it was the right thing, but I realized when I took the front one off, I could ride so much smoother. I was having a hard time initiating turns with both cants. Not anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thomas_m Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 I have the same problem but the opposite side. Tonight I was doing ok on my heelside but I just could not seem to get low and/or get my weight on the front of the board on my toeside. It was a complete and utter kookfest. I was sooo glad I couldn't see myself. Very frustrating... T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 NateW, this is my reason for not moving stance forward. The way most snowboard inserts come you'd have to be an idiot to mount the board so far back you couldn't get forward enough with the proper technique. Also if you simply sidestep the problem by moving your stance to make up for your lack of technique you're cheating yourself in the long run. My thoughts are you adjust the stance for/aft to find the sweet spot on the board, and to dial in how you want your board to handle, not to make up to technique. If you are riding you boots in the powder mode try locking them in. You might be flexing through the boot and never getting that energy to the board. I know I originally said your boot/binding set-up might be too stiff, because this is a common cause for people not getting the movement that they need in their turns. But if you go too far in the other direction (ie too soft) you move so much without any effect on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMU Alpine Boarder Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by philfell Your boot/binding set-up might be too stiff. Or you need to improve technique to use your hips to drive your turns more efficiently. A lot of times when riders try to get their weight forward they end up bending at the waist, so when they look down at their board they are visually more forward. But usually when you bend at the waist your hip move back in order to maintain balance. So you really aren't more forward your the same, but this time it' harder to get forward because your hips are so far in the back seat. Learn to use your hips to drive forward in your turns. But remember if your too far forward your tail gets light and it's hard to hold a clean carve. Unfortunately describes me perfectly.... Breaking at the waist is an ongoing problem I have, and I would like to eliminate it this season.... I know I need to get forward, but I constantly find myself making this mistake.... It's very easy to fall into this habit, I know I have :rolleyes: ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northcoast Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by thomas_m I have the same problem but the opposite side. Tonight I was doing ok on my heelside but I just could not seem to get low and/or get my weight on the front of the board on my toeside. It was a complete and utter kookfest. I was sooo glad I couldn't see myself. Very frustrating... T. Thomas, Are you going up to the Summit on Saturday? If so we could take a couple runs together after I get off work and work on that toeside. K. ________ UGGS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by Baka Dasai I already ride my Raichles in powder mode. And my stance is already centered on the sidecut, 63f/55r, about 19.5" apart, Bomber 3 deg disks front and rear. Option 4's looking likely, huh? To be a bit more specific, the problem is worse on heelsides. I can drive my knees forward OK, but that doesn't seem to engage the heelside edge in the front half of the board. 63/55 is part of the problem, unless you are naturally more duckfooted than "normal". That's too much splay - it's encouraging your hips to open up and face downhill on heelside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncermak Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 3 deg front and rear could also be a problem with engaging the heelside. you may be locking your rear leg when going to heelside, not allowing you to pressure the hell edge through the entire turn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Yeah, if you're already centered, the setback is probably not the problem. :) Where are your hands when you're making a heelside turn? If they're not up in front of your, try putting them there (especially your trailing hand) and see if that helps bring your posture forward. Also try leaning your spine forward - if your butt is back over the tail, tipping forward at the hips should be easy and will bring your CG forward. That's what I was doing (too much) when my stance was too far back. I was able to carve well enough, the problem was that my front thigh was getting burned out too quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thomas_m Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 I don't think I'll be there this Sat due to work, if I am it'd probably be at night. I'll hold you to it another day though! Thanks, Thomas Originally posted by northcoast Thomas, Are you going up to the Summit on Saturday? If so we could take a couple runs together after I get off work and work on that toeside. K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywalker Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Maybe this helps: My little sister teaches her students to push hard with their rear leg during the extensoin. At extension turns i.e. this automatically brings your C o G forward. Maybe flexing front leg on extension turn more than rear leg has the same effect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted January 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 OK, I rode all this morning while thinking about this, and I think I can better describe the problem. First, the 8 deg splay between front and rear bindings is due to a natural splay in my feet. Any less splay and I get a very sore knee and my rear foot fights my boot to get to a shallower angle. Anyway, I realised I have no problem actually putting weight on my front foot during heelside turns, but the problem is how. If I simply flex forwards, with my front knee moving over my toes, it decreases the edge angle and I feel a bit too side-on, butt-on-the-toilet-seat. The result is that the front of the board doesn't engage, and I just end up carving the rear half of the board. If I try to correct this by pushing my front knee down towards the snow, the front of the board engages, but then tends to dive in and turn too sharply, causing the board to skid out. Finding a happy medium between these two options is proving elusive. My boots are flexible enough for me to push my knees in any direction, but which direction is right? On toesides it's obvious, but heelsides have me confused. I can already hear people starting to advise that it's all about using the hips, but if I think about my hips and ignore the position of my knees, my weight naturally falls all on the back foot. I've got to know where the knees should go! (The problem really only happens on steepish slopes. On blue and easier runs I can carve cleanly regardless.) Here's a series of photos of me initiating a heelside turn: <img src="http://img119.exs.cx/img119/3443/01057mr.jpg" width="318" height="1194" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncermak Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 you had to go there, didn't you kent :D what the hell. I'm with you...But I do use the norm as step towards the perfect carve... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by Kent WHAT? But c'mon Kent.....that is what EVERYBODY says is a perfect carve!!!!! Well, it's not. *sigh* Kent is suffering from MILFS (Madd In Limbo Forever Syndrome) Telling newbies to face the nose is a good way to get them to break the bad habits of facing their edges. It's not necessarily the perfect way to carve. It works for some people (notably <a href="http://www.maddmikes.com/images/CMC-copy.jpg">this guy</a>) quite well. Check my avatar, I'm actually a face-the-bindings guy. Here's a pix of what I'd have you strive for.... Aside from the general postion...you need to get your butt lower (with your knees bent) k An excellent example, (despite the quality of the pic, and that Klug is goofy) but notice that his butt is not any lower than his edge angle dictates. Simply bending your knees and sinking into a turn is rarely necessary. Just like on toeside, where you don't want your upper body leaning into the turn more than your lower body, on heelside, you don't want your butt to be unnecessarily low, or hung into the turn way beyond the plane of your edge angle. (can't seem to find a pic of this at the moment, sorry) By the way, here is a good example of what philfell was talking about - leaning the upper body forward but still being in the back seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 You are a brave man Kent. Will there be any troll wars on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 I wasn't going to say anything either becuase of the troll wars implications, but because Kent already did,.....Ditto what he said. It looks to me in the picture that you have way more rotation than you need to initiate the turn, and it may be causing a number of problems down the kinetic chain from your hips to your ankles. I'll explain in more detail what I mean if you want me too. Remember, its only a suggestion based upon static pics of 1 turn. To really get good advice you'd need to post some video somewhere, or ride with someone because a snapshot doesn't usually tell you enough information to make a really good diagnosis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maciek Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 "But remember if your too far forward your tail gets light and it's hard to hold a clean carve." That actually causes falls in icier conditions as it is difficult to rebalance tail. Also you may be stuck/locked on tip and not a chance to make nice and quick transition to toe side. It is going to be an ugly workout. Been there, done that.... myself. Think of this kind of mistakes as how they impact joining turns rather than how impressive your carve was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleaman Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Another trick I learned was to pressure the side of your front boot into the turn by trying to drive your knee down to the snow. It feels weird and you think you will fall over, but if you have some speed and try it, it works great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WC Rider Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Hey, so you're having problems getting the wieght forward eh? I think your positioning looks fine in the pics, tho you might try driving your knee to the snow a little more (not forward, but more sideways, about 45 degrees off the centreline of the board) If it were me, I would 1) loose the cants... that front cant is not helping you get weight forward.... I used to ride with the old school circular Burton cant plate in the rear, but it kept my knees too close together and threw off my balance through the carve. So I ditched it. Never been happier (I dont have to take off my binding to tighten an extra set of screws anymore... ) 2) move my front binding forward, not the whole stance. In the past, I've found as little as a half inch to an inch can make a difference... try a small adjustment and see how it goes... try a big adjustment and see how it feels... fiddle until it feels right.... when I slap bindings onto boards, I aim for the centre marks that Burton so nicely provides.... then, I give'er... should be some video upcoming at some point on carveitup.net..... my first time on a Burton Factory Prime 178, I threw the bindings at the centre marks, picked my angles (60-56 or so), and took about half a run till I had both hands on the snow... then we took video I advocate taking the "mystery" out of setups and riding... if it feels wrong, or you're having problems, change it.... for example: -need weight forward? move front binding forward -sore foot/ankle/knee that feels like its trying to twist the boot out for more 'splay'? rotate your binding till it doesn't hurt.... -edges not sharp enough to stick on the ice? find the snow on the sides of the runs and rock out there when you can't stick a carve anyhow, have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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