energyrail Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Ok so the UPZ flo liner has good heel hold, but does this with having a very thin spot in the liner. In a hard toe side carve it feels like my heel is digging into the plastic shell. Doesn't feel nice, anyone experience this, and try and remedy it by adding a little padding on the outside of the liner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpboots Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 I don't know where on the heel you are talking, but it might be that the liner is moving in the shell? Maybe? I was thinking this stuff, Sugru, (http://sugru.com/) might be a good way to take up space in the process of boot fitting. You might be able to fashion around the upper parts of the heel to make the fit in the shell better, preventing shift in the shell. OR, you might want to take some of the space out (if any) with a shim under the liner. The Sugru could pad the thin spot too. I was also thinking this could be used to reinforce seams and outerwear to avoid premature wear. Lots of ways to use this stuff. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyrail Posted January 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 thanks for the reply. The liner does shift in the boot when they aren't tight feels weird for sure. but once tight they feel snug. well opposite end of your toes really, not the bottom of the heel but the back. Stand with your back to the wall with your feet against it, right where the wall would touch the back of your foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXFR70 Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 go to a GOOD bootfitter and be done with it, any other issues you have can probably be resolved. once I went to a bootfitter my problems disappeared. after going, it is amazing all of the mins-information or bad information I have recieved from local shops or so called bootfitters locally and on the internet also. also, I had heel pain from just having UPZ RC-10's on in my house, from what I remember, the liner may have had some stiffer material in the heel which may also be causing it, digging into your heel more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyrail Posted January 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 You may be right Timeless I'm thinking now that the firmness of the liner is hurting my heel. as my back foot gets held in the liner, may be my setup. But I know some will say throw the stock liners away. In case somebody is interested, Wow does a flo liner in a head boot ever make it feel big. The head liner in a upz no way can't even get my foot in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Go to a bootfitter first. If you can't and want to try to improve things on your own, note that you need to pad the area around the sore spot, not directly over the sore spot. Think of a donut with the painful area poking into the hole. The idea is to spread the pressure to the surrounding area. You likely don't need much padding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXFR70 Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 You may be right Timeless I'm thinking now that the firmness of the liner is hurting my heel. as my back foot gets held in the liner, may be my setup. But I know some will say throw the stock liners away. In case somebody is interested, Wow does a flo liner in a head boot ever make it feel big. The head liner in a upz no way can't even get my foot in. yes, the UPZ are very low profile, and the liner is very low profile also, not sure if you would have to upsize in the future if wanting to use a non-stock liner. but go to a bootfitter, it should be a pretty easy fix for them. your problem seems to be more straight forward, but I have learned that its not always what you would think causing a certain problem, at least in my case it wasn't. hopefully it works out for you, foot pain is very annoying, I cannot beleive I delt with it for so long, I did not know bootfitters existed until a year or 2 ago, but I was also in soft boots until this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpboots Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 Agreed about getting into a reputable boot fitter. Preferably who have worked in that type of shell/liner before. It would be impossible to try and trouble shoot anything for real on this forum. Only to point you in certain directions of resolution. Boot fitter is always best. FYI, 13 years ski shop boot fitting experience here and 3 years warranty experience with a ski boot manufacturer. Ultimately it doesn't matter, but sometimes people see that new forum members have nothing to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyrail Posted January 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 Well I'm on trip so boot fitting is possible. Normally I'm six hours from someone that knows anything. I have put the broke in liners from my old rtr in and so far so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpboots Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 I am always afraid of switching liners in shells. Just me though. The custom liners are nice especially if they expand to fill the void in different shells. As for the heel movement. Since it is on the toe-side turn, your probably lifting out due to lack of heel hold. You might be able to replicate the feeling in the shop if you try and "stand on your toes" while in the boot. Let the boot fitter know this. He should have a remedy for you. It might just be a few pads in an inverted V on the left and right side of the back seam of the boot above where the pain occurs. I personally have used Dr Scholls moleskin over hot spots as emergency on the hill. Keep some in your pocket, you can put it on your bare skin (under the sock) when you take a break in the lodge. It might be just the right padding. If your at a ski area, ask a ski patrol, guide or instructor who the best fitter is in the area, or a boot rep if there is someone there demoing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleWhiteLine Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 I had this exact problem on my UPZ's that I boought this year. Only on the right heel for some reason, the left is fine. On day 1 I could only last about an hour or two before the pain around my achilies heel was too much to bear. I tried again on my second day but the same issue. Day 3 on them I went to a local boot fitter. He heated the shell and pressed it out. I went and rode for a couple of runs. It was better but still not up to scratch. Then he went in and machined out some of the plastic on the inside of the boot around the heel. He removed just enough material to relieve the pressure without any heel lift. The best $25 I've spent. The only problem now with my UPZ's is the coldness. They are the coldest boots I've ever worn and this is one of the coldest winters for a long while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyrail Posted January 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Good thing you got it fixed. My 08 rtr are exactly the same and I never had problems. So I swapped liners. The toe box is so much roomier than my technica icon x ski boots. They feel warm to me. Was it your front or back foot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleWhiteLine Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 It was my rear one. I have never had cold feet in any snowboard or ski boot ever but these are frost nip cold. I put it down to 2 things. One they fit perfectly perhaps too well causing circulation problems or two I have the thinnest liner in the shell to make a good fit so less insulation. I do release my buckles for the ride up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyrail Posted January 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Ya it was my rear one too. I think my last set got broke in slowly as I Iearned. The liners are very thin. But the tighter the fit the colder the feet. 15 years ago when my ski boots were two sizes to big. My feet would sweat at -25 Celsius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmartshopper Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Ya it was my rear one too. I think it's the rear one because your rear foot/ankle tends to have a more acute angle than the front, thus driving the heel harder and at a more pointy angle into the back of the boot. I know the exact spot you are talking about, and although I have no recommendations how to fix it :( I would advise against trying to just play through it and break it in. I actually had the problem years ago with 'stiff' soft boots - burton ION's... and by the time I gave up and sold the boots to a friend (who they fit well), I had developed an actual calcium deposit on that spot on my heel. It's a solid extra physical bump on my heel that now makes fitting boots etc even more difficult than they already were. Don't get that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levinnyog Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Ok, this might be a bit different..... I spent hours and hours to read all reviews, pros and cons of UPZ boots vs. Deeluxe track 325. Is there anyone out there who may have tried both boots and could give me an advise which one to buy? I know it's up my personal preference yet it would be nice to get some feedback. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleWhiteLine Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Levinnyog, I went from Deeluxe track 700's with btms system on that I bought used from a very agressive rider to new UPZ's this year. Here are my general comments: 1) UPZ with standard tongue is stiffer than my 700's with the bts 2) UPZ's have a much more roomy toe box and significantly tighter heel box (I had to boot fit my right heel) 3) The UPZ inner boot looks like a high made boot liner that works together with the shell to make an exceptional fit (for me). The Thermoflex liners I had in the 700's didn't feel like they worked so much in unison with the shell. I think the liner on the 700's was one of the reason I was getting shin bruises. No such bruises with the UPZ's 4) The UPZ are the coldest boots I've worn. I never had cold feet with my 700's (but the last few winters were warmer by far than this one). 5) The UPZ have a removable toe piece on the sole in order to make it a touring boot or downhill boot I think. The bolts that hold this on protrude slightly beyond the rubberised sole and I attribute this to a couple of slips I've had walking on smooth surfaces. I'm also concerned at this two piece system may come loose over time or as the plastic gets old the bolts may pull out of the plastic. 6) The sole length on the UPZ's is smaller for a given size of boot than the Deeluxes. 7) The UPZ have much more options for canting the boot than the deeluxes and it is a better method in my opinion. .... Hmm that's all I can think of right now. I might be up for selling my Deeluxes (was thinking of keeping them for buddies to try out some hardboots). I hope that all helps. SWL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyrail Posted January 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 About the upz. Well the fit is what most say. Tight heel wide toe box. The short sole length is a farce. Getting them centered on a board can be difficult. With some Bindings like ibex/Burton. They now come with tnuts in the heel for Intec adapters. But should have the toes done as well. They improved the type of screws over the old ones. Which means they know they have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcarve Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 The only problem now with my UPZ's is the coldness. They are the coldest boots I've ever worn and this is one of the coldest winters for a long while. Check out Dryguy.net, and their Boot Gloves. From what I've read in the consumer reviews, they add a layer of insulation that will keep your feet quite a bit warmer. I bought a pair, and will be arriving any day. I'll post an update here when I've had a chance to use them on my UPZ RC10's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLikeSnow Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Check out Dryguy.net, and their Boot Gloves. From what I've read in the consumer reviews, they add a layer of insulation that will keep your feet quite a bit warmer. I bought a pair, and will be arriving any day. I'll post an update here when I've had a chance to use them on my UPZ RC10's Please do, i've yet to put my UPZ RC8 in use but i'm already worried about the liner/coldness. It looks so thin :) About comparison Deeluxe - UPZ: I have short feet, wide at the toes (widest part right behind toes) and, i guess, narrow at the heel. In numbers, 25.5cm long and 10.8cm wide. Form's Greek ( http://www.hallux-forum.de/pics/fussform-1.gif ) I have a hard time finding fitting boots. Softboots i wear too big, can't find football (soccer) boots, boots at basic military were torture for the first month (and slightly better after, i put a hammer to their thick leather to loosen/widen the side)... Anyway, I've just bought my first hardboots. I got to try Track 325 at the resort, i immediatly felt them pressing on the outside of both my feet, right behind the little toe. Quickly turned to slight pain. i'm pretty used to this and know it will get worse very quickly, as i've tried skiing 2 seasons back with similar fitting boots. Also, they didnt hold my heel down very well, so i left them at the store. They also had UPZ there, and the guy told me they wouldn't fit because their shafts are tighter and i have strong calves... This week i ordered and tried RC8s at pogo. What can i say, they're almost perfect. Hold the heel down, wider at toes. Probably stiffer than the Track 325, but it's been almost 2 weeks since i had those on. After wearing them at home for 2 more hours, walking around, wiggling, doing squats, putting an imaginary board on edge, and reading up on more hardbooting stuff, i've found them pressing at a similar spot to the Deeluxe. But differently, usually boots that don't fit me only press from the side, in this case it was diagonally from the top down. And not even close to the hurt i got from Track 325 after just a couple minutes. I'll try them on the piste, if its a real issue i'll get them punched out a tiny bit. For all i read, that should never be a problem. Too wide, on the other hand... Calves are no problem of course, closed the boots to the 3rd buckle-holder-thing with no issue at all. Just snug fitting, as i imagine they should. Maybe it will be different on stress/piste, but i don't believe the 325 would do any better. Thanks for making me drive an extra 150km back at home, mr helpful guy at the resort store :P Edited January 15, 2013 by iLikeSnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levinnyog Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Yesss, helped a lot! Thank you so much for all the help. Going UPZ now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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