iphone 4

[bobdea]

most of the new features are nothing I need and maybe not even enjoy but that thing is cool.

really nice hardware, not a terrible price point either considering the mandatory data plan is now tiered.

thought?

that video chat is crazy! and built in video editing is sweet too!

[kieran]

if you're happy doing only the things steve jobs lets you do, and only the way he lets you do them, go for it.

for everything else, there's Android. ;)

[piusthedrcarve]

if you're happy doing only the things steve jobs lets you do, and only the way he lets you do them, go for it.

for everything else, there's Android. ;)

Well.. iphone is like iPod. For mp3 player, there had been a lot of better mp3 players available on the market such as iRiver. But marketing and vibe of iPad of Apple had dominated the market. Nowadays, you can find many arm bands, cars, stereo system, and many more gizmos just comparable with iPod. I see that same pattern is already happening in smart phone market.

If then, what are you going to choose, iPhone vs Android?

[Kent]

In a twisted way...it was nice to see another tech company botch a demo, esp Jobs. :)

Remember my post last year? Things are coming along pretty fast.

http://gizmodo.com/5547676/how-a-silly-phone-for-teens-reveals-microsofts-plan-for-us-all

[kieran]

If then, what are you going to choose, iPhone vs Android?

already an Android user, so i am biased.

apple hardware is impressive stuff. they pack a lot of nifty into a very small space.

the software? well, it isn't how i want to use a device i own.

[bobdea]

if you're happy doing only the things steve jobs lets you do, and only the way he lets you do them, go for it.

for everything else, there's Android. ;)

yeah, notice apple and rim are the only two vendors that take security seriously in terms of smart phones. symbian might too but IMO symbian looks to be on the way out of favor and I know in the past there was a bunch of malware on symbian.

just the other day I read about some widows mobile malware that's now in the wild. IMO for a phone the apple approach is fine and really if you want to install anything else there's always jailbreaking kinda PITA but really if you're at that point there's android to skip a hassle but it's no better and in many cases worse than the iphone for the average user.

the average user is not too bright about where their software is downloaded from!

just watch though, give it a couple more years and most platforms are going to offer something like the app store but they will be more optional but the apps will be certified to not contain anything crazy.

yes, I am waiting for something crazy to slip through the app store approval process but it has not happened yet.

the issue here is some platforms treat the mobile space like the PC world in terms of software but the user base is a touch different and also there's higher potential for headaches for the obvious reasons.

I do have to say though, as far as UI goes mobile 7 is pretty hot. that article you posted is kinda over the top fanboyism though. anyone could write something with as much substance about having motorola razr on verizon and being locked into having to pay $2 to download a ring tone and how awesome it is because it's easy.

as of right now the kin is like $100 but it has no selling points for that price range compared to other phones. could have android, rim or apple devices that all blow it away.......

[Alaskan Rover]

What pisses me off about things like the iPhone and Android and the like is that most carriers allow these phones to have UNLIMITED internet access. I have friends who have iPhones and they spend inordinate amount of time per day on YouTube...easily half a gig or more per day. At no additional cost for using up this band-width.

Yet my Acer Aspire One netbook (subnotebook), using a verizon "air-card" broadband wireless is CAPPED at 5 GB a MONTH !! and until recently, 25 cents per megabyte for any overage (now 5 cents per megabyte). But a megabyte on the internet goes by LIKE THAT!!! What a RIP. Yet, Verizon and ATT don't charge their smart-phone customers any overage AT ALL for using the same internet services.

That is totally lob-sided and just not right. That's my pet-peeve.

[Kent]

yeah, notice apple and rim are the only two vendors that take security seriously in terms of smart phones.

Oh please Bob, that is simply inaccurate and farsighted, esp considering the news this week/today......

Apple's Worst Security Breach: 114,000 iPad Owners Exposed

http://gawker.com/5559346/

Apple launches Safari 5, patches record 48 bugs

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9177860/Apple_launches_Safari_5_patches_record_48_bugs?source=rss_news

And if you want an opinion from the kid himself:

Marc Maiffret--the quick rise of a teen hacker (Q&A)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20002317-245.html

Quote:

Bill Gates released his Trustworthy Computing memo [in January 2002]. He stated this was the No. 1 objective of the company, to have the software become secure to the point where people actually trust it. There was a lack of faith in Microsoft and security, especially after all the computer worms like Code Red and Slammer. Banks were talking to Microsoft about switching. Now when you look at Microsoft today they do more to secure their software than anyone. They're the model for how to do it. They're not perfect; there's room for improvement. But they are definitely doing more than anybody else in the industry, I would say.

It's even a little scarier with [Apple] because they try to market themselves as more secure than the PC, that you don't have to worry about viruses, etc. Anytime there's been a hacking contest, within a few hours someone's found a new Apple vulnerability. If they were taking it seriously, they wouldn't claim to be more secure than Microsoft because they are very much not. And the Apple community is pretty ignorant to the risks that are out there as it relates to Apple.

The reason we don't see more attacks out there compared to Microsoft is because their market share isn't near what Microsoft's is.

http://www.intomobile.com/2008/03/18/microsoft-windows-mobile-50-and-60-earn-federal-security-certifications.html

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc512651.aspx

Sure...say what you want about chasing the pack for app-related items (for another few months), but the facts are pretty clear when it comes to mobile security.

The reality is that you still need a PC/Mac to use a iPad/Phone. They are simply stacking devices on consumers rather than replacing them...esp when you consider 75% of Mac users also have a PC.

But hey...people like spending a lot of money.

[bobdea]

kent, I was under the impression that att had ****ed up for the ipad thing to even be possible.

safari 5 is a desktop product, but since we're on it do I really need to mention any incarnation of IE? worst argument ever. if you want to include all webkit browsers they have some issues, still better than IE. I'm betting all webkit browsers combined have had less exploits than IE maybe even all webkit and gecko browsers combined. well, that might be a stretch.

the market share argument kinda goes out the window if you look at the malware circulating for windows mobile............. you pointed to a article that talks more about MS holes than anything else. not to mention the dude works for a company who's whole business is dependent on compromised windows products.

[bobdea]

The reality is that you still need a PC/Mac to use a iPad/Phone. They are simply stacking devices on consumers rather than replacing them...esp when you consider 75% of Mac users also have a PC.

But hey...people like spending a lot of money.

no, you need a pc to activate it, can be and is often done in store lots of the time and then if you want to install OS updates. I know 5 or so people with iphones two of them do not own a desktop or laptop. they use someone else's machines for updates. one such person uses my laptop.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

What pisses me off about things like the iPhone and Android and the like is that most carriers allow these phones to have UNLIMITED internet access. I have friends who have iPhones and they spend inordinate amount of time per day on YouTube...easily half a gig or more per day. At no additional cost for using up this band-width.

Yet my Acer Aspire One netbook (subnotebook), using a verizon "air-card" broadband wireless is CAPPED at 5 GB a MONTH !! and until recently, 25 cents per megabyte for any overage (now 5 cents per megabyte). But a megabyte on the internet goes by LIKE THAT!!! What a RIP. Yet, Verizon and ATT don't charge their smart-phone customers any overage AT ALL for using the same internet services.

That is totally lob-sided and just not right. That's my pet-peeve.

or a blessing

[Sinecure]

Alaskan Rover - unltd data just went away for iPhone. Although I don't usually use more than 300-400MB/mo and that includes some utube vids, maddow show app, lots of email. When I upgrade to the new iPhone I might have to start using the wifi option.

Here's my opinion in a very abbreviated fashion:

Android - the phone you want if you are a UNIX geek, programmer, or other tinkerer/power user. Mike T comes to mind.

This was especially true a year ago. Since then, IMO, Android is quickly approaching iPhone in terms of ease of use and availability of apps.

iPhone - the phone you want if you like things to work right out of the box, and to have a huge network of support, accessories, etc.

iPhone is by far the easiest to set up and configure of any smartphone. Blackberry is pretty easy too, but Android is still a PITA for lots of quirky things. Symbian isn't hard, but there's nearly no support for the OS here in the US. Nokia pissed off ATT a few years ago, ATT dropped them and Nokia has been struggling to get back some footing ever since. In Europe, there are Symbian phones everywhere.

iPhone has the most apps. Well, if the ones you need are available for Android then who cares? And pure numbers don't mean squat. But there are a ton of apps for iPhone and you know they'll work right away. Lots are free too.

If your iPhone breaks or acts up, you can take it to the Apple store and actually talk with someone who knows how to help. With Android do you take it to your carrier, the manufacturer or Google to ask questions? Sort of like the old difference between a Windows PC and a Mac. In Windows, everyone points fingers at others for problems. With Mac, you go see a "genius" and they help - no problem.

Do you want accessories? Like an alternate case, a docking station, toilet paper holder that you can plug your phone into? All available for iPhone - much less so for all the Android options out there.

It is awesome that Android is getting so much closer to iPhone and has done it so quickly. Microsoft can't get their heads out of their rectum and decide what they want with a mobile OS - they'll tell you it is Enterprise, but I see tons of iPhones in enterprise situations and relatively few WM phones. They serve so many masters that every effort they make gets diluted in some fashion. Plus they make so little on the OS and can't figure out a decent revenue stream for the product - despite years of trying. Google seems to be banking on mobile advertising to support Android - and given the critical mass that Android phones seem to be attaining, I think the advertising side may really pay off within a year or two. I think Apple is going to start minting money with in-app advertising on the new iOS - assuming they can maintain their lead in the market. In my opinion, Microsoft should either buy RIM (Blackberry), or sell its Mobile division to Blackberry (or Nokia). Three mobile smartphone OS's is probably a number that the market can support. Four may be a stretch, but as the ratio of smartphones to dumb/featurephones increases, maybe four is sustainable. Poor Palm - they were one of the first (and at the time, best) and now they're nearly dead.

I've owned a smartphone since 2001 (Kyocera Palm brick with a flip-number pad). Mostly I've used Palm OS devices and iPhones. But I've also had 3-4 Windows Mobile devices, two Blackberries and one Symbian device for various periods of time or to demo/try. The iPhone is far and away the best smartphone I've ever used. And lately I've been looking around the garage to see what stuff I can sell to fund a replacement for the iPhone 3G that I've been using for the past two years. Yes, I'm a victim of the hype.

[Terryw]

I am struggling with this decision right now. I have had an iphone 3g for two years and had no trouble with it at all. I am probably very fortunate to live in an area that is very well supported for the att network. I live about an hour east of LA, so I benefit from that large population center without having to actually live in it!

My wife is also in the market for a new smart phone. This will be the first one for her. It is down to the incredible or a new iphone 4. My one beef with the iphone is the lack of voice integration. Seems to me to be more a matter of software, not hardware. So I hope to see it very soon. I think it would be so cool to do video calls to each other. Love to see every one trying so hard to innovate and beat the other guy to the market place with the latest greatest device.

[Kent]

kent, I was under the impression that att had ****ed up for the ipad thing to even be possible.

safari 5 is a desktop product, but since we're on it do I really need to mention any incarnation of IE? worst argument ever. if you want to include all webkit browsers they have some issues, still better than IE. I'm betting all webkit browsers combined have had less exploits than IE maybe even all webkit and gecko browsers combined. well, that might be a stretch.

the market share argument kinda goes out the window if you look at the malware circulating for windows mobile............. you pointed to a article that talks more about MS holes than anything else. not to mention the dude works for a company who's whole business is dependent on compromised windows products.

Bob - The point is that you said Apple and RIM are doing more than anyone else when, in fact, Apple is doing less than anyone and RIM is simply a non-factor for dev. Rather than address the problems of the iPhone, they are releasing a new phone. Wow....that's a great way to address a problem. What if MSFT chose not to go XP SP3 and told consumers to wait for Vista?

I'm totally onboard with hobbyists and technology (former Apple and open source guy myself), but when it comes to stuff that works....it's tough to argue the facts and trends.

As for requiring a PC/Mac...you might wanna dig a bit deeper into what Jobs is saying and where technology is going. Tethering is the fatal gap as is the App Store. Check back this thread in 12 months.

[bobdea]

sooooo, a month later........

how's the kin doing?

[patmoore]

I've had the 3G for 18 months and the bride got the #4 model two weeks ago. Immediate advantages of the new one: Voice dialing, multi-tasking and HD video. The sharp display (four times as many pixels as mine) blew me away. The human eye cannot discern the pixels in the display.

We did our first FaceTime video call with someone in Pittsburgh. Cool feature!

[Kent]

sooooo, a month later........

how's the kin doing?

Do you actually have a job or continue to cut/paste your tech knowledge from websites? If so, you missed these...

http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2010/06/microsofts_kin_retail_challenge.html

http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/26/microsoft-numbers/

[patmoore]

One of our customers discovered something the iPhone can't do - survive a run through the washing machine.

It was the first generation phone. Guess it's time to upgrade.....

[bobdea]

Do you actually have a job or continue to cut/paste your tech knowledge from websites? If so, you missed these...

http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2010/06/microsofts_kin_retail_challenge.html

http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/26/microsoft-numbers/

well, I was just asking....... since you were talking about how its gonna be the future despite it's flaws. turned out it was a massive fail.

this is more like it http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/06/four-reasons-why-microsofts-kin-phone-failed/

if the kin is what's to come MS has some serious thinking to do.

BTW, their idea of the cloud if it is consistent with what they wanted to with the kin is sorta retarded, not to mention the monthly bill is the same as the iphone and more than some other smart phones that are actually smart.

[twelsch42]

if you're happy doing only the things steve jobs lets you do, and only the way he lets you do them, go for it.

for everything else, there's Android. ;)

or simply jailbreak your iphone and do whatever you want on it.

retina display kicks ass.

[Kent]

well, I was just asking....... since you were talking about how its gonna be the future despite it's flaws. turned out it was a massive fail.

this is more like it http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/06/four-reasons-why-microsofts-kin-phone-failed/

if the kin is what's to come MS has some serious thinking to do.

BTW, their idea of the cloud if it is consistent with what they wanted to with the kin is sorta retarded, not to mention the monthly bill is the same as the iphone and more than some other smart phones that are actually smart.

Bob...you're the retard. Seriously Dude....do some homework. Good grief. I think you're going to join Macek in my "ignore post" feature. You talk so much **** without knowing what you're talking about. Sorry for being so rude....but sheeez dude, c'mon.

There was NEVER a point in time when the KIN was the future of MS Mobile. Did you even read any of the release notes? Good grief. Do you know the history of the Danger, Android and the iPhone? Do you even know who Nokia is and how much they dominate the market? Do you REALLY know where the money really is in mobile or are you just after cool **** that doesn't really do anything?

The point I made above...(original link) is definately still valid today. People will ultimately need a connected device WITH services. Have you tried a "Live Mesh" type of service? Yep...certainly confusing right now to the average joe today, but remember a few years back txting was considered technical.

"Apps" are NOT services! This is why the iPhone is getting its ass kicked by the Android my friend...and why one lil CEO isn't on Apple's board. An iPhone simply won't work unless you have tethering on a PC or a MAC. Duh. Cool silo'd device? Yes.

Anyhoo...there really isn't any use responding to you silly post. You sling mud without substance yet don't undersand the game.

Certainly not a good allocation of MS acquistion and development dollars. But, the good news is that MSFT makes more profit than Apple and Google COMBINED. Check the facts.

I'll leave you with this before the ignore button goes into effect. Has MSFT ever invented a product? Well...many. But, if you look at the markets where they excel (no pun), they weren't the first, but ultimately figured it out and came out with a better product at a lower price. The market doesn't lie.

[boarderboy]

I know almost nothing about the Apple, MS, Google mobile competition.

I have built a few PC's from scratch, though, and hope someday to build a Mac clone.

Given that background, open source software has always been attractive to me.

Herewith, NYT article on a developing Android "Everyman's" programming initiative.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/12/technology/12google.html?_r=1&hpw

BB