eajracing Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 I'm looking at buying or making a set of risers for my soft set-up. Size 13 feet are pretty unforgiving. I'm looking specifically at the Palmer PLS's and the edge risers, or doing the plastic cutting board approach. The main issue i'm trying to get my head around is the height - they seem to vary from 10mm to 20mm, but without any frame of reference, I 'm not sure which way to go. I understand what the increased height does, but am not sure how it translates on-hill. I see most people riding them have experienced the 10mm's, but has anyone ridden the 20mm's? Do they get too twitchy or otherwise? Does bigger = better to some limit? Finally - it's for Burton CO2's mounted on a Prior MFR 176. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 I did not like my Palmer risers, not because I couldn't get more edge angle before boot-out, but because they did not support the entire length of the baseplate. The toe risers were entirely unsupported and gave a pretty vague feeling on toeside turns. I haven't looked at any of the new ones out there, but if you were, or making your own, I would make sure that they were as wide as the board at the level of the topsheet and flared out to the length of the baseplate. The Palmers were opposite to this: They were narrow-ish at the base and the same width at the interface to the binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 yeah, like rob said. I have used the palmers with a few bindings and they just don't work well with some bindings. the edge brand risers look like garbage to me. maybe make your own set, can't hurt to try and you could do a few sizes to try. I would try to throw in some boot foam or rubber in there. might help the plate from migrating under the binding. if you come up with something good I'm betting you could sell some 'round here. haha, could just go get a VIST, make a wider binding plate and be done with it LOL. joking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eajracing Posted February 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 I'm concerned about the palmers for the same reason - specifically the extending toe piece on the burton binding seems like it will hinge over it as it is not that structurally integral to the rest of the binding leading to too much flex for a solid feel or even failure. I contacted a local plastics guru and was told the 5/8" UHMW poly sheet I was looking at will run about $550 for the smallest sheet they sell - 4'x10'; and that using it as a laminate with, for instance, some elastomer or damping material will be difficult. I am told the UHMW is awful stuff to work with in the sense it is not weldable and finding epoxies that work with it is difficult.... so back to the drawing board on that one.... specifically - does anyone have experience using the different heights? I'm still trying to figure out what thickness to go with and at $400-$600 per sheet depending on thickness I don't know if this bit of experimentation will ever get off the ground if i've got to drop that kind of money. I'm going to look at cutting boards at walmart later, metric ruler in hand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 Good (propper) cutting board is actually the stuff you mentioned above... There are also not so good ones, sold by Dollar stores and Ikea. The Ikea's come in different colors, various thicknesses and are very soft. They have a bit of damping property too. However, they compress a bit and creep. You could also look at Sintra board as an alternative. It needs to be good only in compression, no shear (or next to none) loads for the simple riser application... It is cheaper, lighter and way easier to cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 There are a couple problems with using sintra. It isn't really made for outdoor use and becomes brittle in the cold. I have used it for this application knowing that it is brittle and did end up breaking the riser. Cold and board flex was enough to end its life. I am currently using Palmer risers, not sure of thickness, with my flow bindings. I will check the thickness when I get home. I like them and don't have any problems with feeling unsupported on the edges. Ink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 Good to know. I never tested it in extreme cold. Makes sense what you're saying. However, we used it a lot for the doors of outdoor cabinets on superyachts. In signage industry it is used outdoors too. It is closed cell foam and UV stable, so it is designed for outdoor. Given your experience in the cold, I wouldn't use it for the risers, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eajracing Posted February 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 did some shopping around on my way to hockey... looked at a lot of cutting boards. My problem is that I can't seem to find any over ~10mm thick. So, for about $20 and a bit of work I could throw those together but am not convinced the 10mm will be enough. When I hold it, it just seems too thin. Starting to consider the palmers again. Has anyone (preferably with novelty-sized feet) ran CO2's on the palmers? Does the toe ramp flex over the end? Has anyone ridden the 20mm or anything over 10mm? Finally.... has anyone actually owned a set of the edge risers? Any feedback to share? They dont look all that substantial, but I'd rather hear from someone who actually rides them. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 really, try 10 mm going past that you might not like. I wear a 11 though. I've run c14s on palmers the bindings were more gushy. for whatever reason the taller plates I THINK had a smaller surface area to place the bindings on compared to the older clear ones. I think it was that with the clear ones I could extend out the wings more. it's been a long time so my memory might be failing. I'd also advise getting the shock model, there's some dampening component to it and it does not makes as much noise as the other two I have used. when it's all said and done though I was not too happy with the damn things though. IMO making some sort of laminate or even cutting board would not be much worse. ohh, my, just thought of something. could take a td2 or catek disk and mount a steel or ALU plate to it and thread the plate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 I have and rode quite a few different risers, Palmer PLS, blue/clear, grey/clear, black/black, Palmer shock silver/black and Burton Elevator... Palmers have more damping and rise then Burtons. The ones with clear wings are stiffer then the black ones. Shock I didn't ride, but it looks very soft when I handle it. I'm not even shure that I liked them with the soft boots. More power and pressure to the edge, yes. But, there was something that bothered me, not 100% shure what. Maybe like less precision then direct mount? On the other hand, I like the risers a lot undrer my plate bindings on freeride and all-mountain boards. Palmers for flatter angles on wider boards, Burtons for steeper angles on narrower boards. I even used Burtons under TD3 on Kessler KST. Works nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 ahh, boris, I'm right there with you. a big part of why I said I was not very satisfied with them. seemed like the board would self adjust edge angle on it's own in a bad way, seemed to notice more chatter. the shock are not softer really that I noticed but they rattle less and that's a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eajracing Posted February 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 After sleeping on it, I think I'm going to buy the cutting boards from yesterday and give the 10mm home-mades a shot to give me a baseline before spending on bigger/newer/proper ones. ohh, my, just thought of something. could take a td2 or catek disk and mount a steel or ALU plate to it and thread the plate Thats the idea that kept me awake last night. similar to the TD set up where an elastomer base is bolted to the board with a disk and some frame, then a plate or something is bolted to the frame to avoid any shear loading on the bolts. And I kept coming back to how the TD's do it. It probably wouldnt be that tough for Fin to figure out some plate (or plates of varying thickness, or height where it mounts to the cant) to mount on the TD3 cant & bumper that we could bolt a soft binding to..... until then - low tech. simple works best - it's just not always easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnfusion Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 I'm curious...Have you checked out the Burton Elevators? I have them on my Bx boards and they work great. My buddy who also has size 13 feet use them and love them. Burton does not make them anymore but you can still find them on ebay and at The House (link below) http://www.the-house.com/bt1elevbk7zz-burton.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eajracing Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 I have not tried those. Ended up jigsawing & dremmel-ing a set out of cutting boards. Picking up bolts tonight to ride them Saturday. Figured i'd rather spend the $20 to see if i like it before spending $100 (crazy CDN money) on proper ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 I'm curious...Have you checked out the Burton Elevators? I have them on my Bx boards and they work great. My buddy who also has size 13 feet use them and love them. Burton does not make them anymore but you can still find them on ebay and at The House (link below)http://www.the-house.com/bt1elevbk7zz-burton.html I hated mine, does not mean they suck per se but it does mean they do for me. the way they attach you to the board kinda scares me a bit too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattis Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 I have been riding the Palmer PLS for many years, can't live without them. And I have used both 10 and 20mm, prefer the 20mm for better clearance. I'm riding hard carving on softboots and have used them on many different boards in length from 158 until 186. Together with Burton C60 it's precisiontools for deep carves or cut through the moguls. But, I think they could work less good on big bootsizes, as written already. I use size M on the binding and have size 8,5 on my DriverX. /Mattis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eajracing Posted February 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Got out on the homemade 10mm's on saturday - dont know how i rode without them before. Not so much a leverage thing, but more of keep my toes out of the snow thing. A riding buddy remarked it looked like i had mounted my hardboots to it. Now I need to find thicker cutting boards and continue the experiment.... As an aside, it got me wondering why there aren't any BX specific bindings on the market yet.... if theres a market for big $$$ kessler's & oxxess boards... one could think theres a market for something built stiffer, big highbacks with an integrated riser that comes with 25 or 30mm bolts...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Got out on the homemade 10mm's on saturday - dont know how i rode without them before. Not so much a leverage thing, but more of keep my toes out of the snow thing. A riding buddy remarked it looked like i had mounted my hardboots to it. Now I need to find thicker cutting boards and continue the experiment....As an aside, it got me wondering why there aren't any BX specific bindings on the market yet.... if theres a market for big $$$ kessler's & oxxess boards... one could think theres a market for something built stiffer, big highbacks with an integrated riser that comes with 25 or 30mm bolts...? maybe forgiving but not sloppy is what's needed for BX? lots of people ride burton for BX, not sure why but my experience with them is my above statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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