WinterGold Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 Here are some impressions from my Apex TheFast 163 SL and the Kessler KST 162 SL. Both Boards are from the 09/10 season. As you can see from my profile, I use Ibex bindings and UPZ RC10 boots. Specs - Kessler - Nose: 26,3cm Waist: 20cm Tail: 24,6cm Apex - Nose: 25,3cm Waist: 19,8cm Tail: 24,2cm Both boards use two titanal layers. The titanal on the Apex looks slightly thicker than on the Kessler. Talking about modern SL boards one has to mention plates. The Apex doesn´t have 4x4 inserts in the board, so you have to use their Flex plate. The Flex plates I have used are a 2 piece construction - so there is one plate under each binding (see pic). Apex is also working on a one piece construction (like the Vist) at the moment, but I haven´t tried these so far. I used the Kessler with Vist plates and without plates altogether. To learn more about the plates see my "Plates" thread. I won´t go into details here, but I think that weight is quite an issue for the freecarver (and maybe also some racers ). The Kessler weighs 3,2kg without plates and 5,5kg with the Vist. The Apex (with Flex Plates) weighs about 5kg. No problem when carving (even an advantage considering all the benefits), but the handling does change ... It is amazing how the decambering works on both boards, if you are used to more "conventional" shapes. These boards drift like freestyleboards ;) ... steering becomes much easier and precise. Once you put them on the edge you experience their true character - edgehold is UNBELIEVABLE! Something interesting here - the boards are about the same size, but while the Kessler has a setback of 4cm, the Apex has an impressive 9cm! Adding the slightly rounded tail, I thought that the tail of the Apex might slip sometimes when overpowered, but that never happened! I thought that was really amazing! And this short tail is so easy to handle ;) ... Looking at the specs, you can see that the Kessler has a smaller radius at the front. Adding the more centered inserts, there is no need to pressure the nose much. You find a comfortable centered stance and you hardly have to worry about moving your weight back and forth (as mentioned many times in this forum already). The Apex likes a little nose pressure - not much, but still noticeable. For me as a freecarver coming from classic raceboards (which also like some nose pressuring), it wasn´t a big issue, but I can see people liking the fact that there is one little thing less to pay attention to. At first I thought that there would be a "winner" and that I would sell the other board sooner or later, but both of these boards have their own character and I wouldn´t want to have to choose ... absorbing bumps, edge change, edge grip, ... all these things are on par for me. If you are still sceptical about plates, you have to go with the Kessler (because of the missing inserts on the Apex) and it wouldn´t be a bad choice ;) ... hey, it´s a KESSLER :D. But the Apex is also a hell of a ride ... can´t wait to try the new plate from them ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 Hey, this is interesting info, thanks! One would think that Apex, that has way less taper then Kessler, would have less offset too? Also, with less taper, did you find the Apex to be more willing to finish the turns / hook-up a bit more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted January 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 @BlueB - after reading your comment, I went out today and tried to focus on what you asked. I was a little bit tired after spending 2 hours on a Kessler 185 + Vist + Ibex binding (7,5kg ... ;)), but I didn´t really feel much difference in how the two boards finish a turn. The difference is noticeable at the initiation (as I mentioned), but I guess that the radius from the waist to the tail is pretty similar on the two boards, so I couldn´t tell much difference. The "new" shapes seem to come off the edge easier if necessary, but if you want to "finish" a turn, you can :D ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 ...if you want to "finish" a turn, you can :D ... I know I can... Yesterday, on nice hero pack, quite a few times I rode way uphill on Kessler GS and BX, both. It's just the feeling that board wants to "find" the fall line all the time, as opposed to less tapered shapes that feel a bit more hooky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted January 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 I know I can... Yesterday, on nice hero pack, quite a few times I rode way uphill on Kessler GS and BX, both. It's just the feeling that board wants to "find" the fall line all the time, as opposed to less tapered shapes that feel a bit more hooky. I totally agree with you here ... Apex and Kessler are very similar in that way ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 What I also found, is that the board is willing to make the next turn in rush from the fall line to approx. 60-75 deg past the fall line, after that it feels more willing to finish the full "C". I guess, by that time one has the wight well settled to the tail already... Now the interesting part: past the 90 deg to fall line (perpendicullar), the board feels VERY hooky, almost unwilling to let go. My specullation is that past the perpendicullar, one has to release the nose first, rather then the tail. Also, as one is travelling uphil now, the tail is naturally loaded, meaning locked, while the big wide nose still holds like crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted February 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Small update - today I had the chance to ride the new plate system ... it is similar in construction, but the front and the back are connected via two curved strips of metal on both sides - felt very nice, but I didn´t notice that much of a difference - maybe more riding time would bring up something. And I have been on an Apex TheFast 178 GS - it had rained two days ago and tonight it was rather cold, so in the morning the slopes were VERY hard. But this board has incredible edge hold. On my backside my bum was already sliding along the snow (or should I say ice?) and this board didn´t care at all - I was very impressed. And although I normally only use boards with a 20cm waist, I had zero boot out problems on the 178. It has a 19,4cm waist and the plate gives you a bit more room ... nevertheless it was surprising for me ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I just finished my first day on this board, thought I'd add on to this as the information here is probably more comprehensive than that I'm going to add. The board's very easy to ride, and it has a wider range of "input tolerance" than the glass boards I've been riding until now. By that I mean that my F2 SL is a killer board, but it'll not behave well if you don't push it hard. The Kessler, in contrast, will carve 360s at walking pace, but it'll also thrash big pistes as fast as I'm comfortable with. Sure, it's not going to go as fast as a GS or speed board, but then the useful speed range is pretty wide and it's where I think I need it for resorts. It holds an edge well, no question. I couldn't make it judder, although if you get your weight too far back which I did a couple of times on my first run then you can make the tail slide away. Everything has it's limits. I have an old "free carve" board from the narrow-waist days, and that would hold an edge pretty well, but it would also have resistance to making a transition. The Kessler holds the edge, but there's no resistance to the transition. The lack of "pop" I thought to be a shame at first; I wondered how that would work as I like being thrown from edge to edge. But later I found that the Kessler would switch edges almost before I told it to, so it seems to be not an issue, it just feels different. You can certainly get air in the transitions if you want to, but it's not coming from the board in quite the same way. If you ride the board way too fast then it behaves pretty well, although obviously not as well as a board designed for higher speeds. At one point I hit a mogul field somewhat faster than I anticipated; you feel to be riding slower than you are, I think. Overall, it's a fun board, and easy to ride. On my last run the crowds seemed stationary, just little slalom gates moving relative to each other ever so slowly. As the only hard booter in Whistler that would have been so irrespective of the board though. I like the board and I think it's so easy to ride that I'll be able to push it to interesting places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 philw, excellent observations ! I must say that I never missed the 'pop' in this kind of boards, especially not in the SL sizes (where you can push the boards into really tight turns and get a good kick at the end of it), but this is just personal taste and there are definitely boards with more pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow 15 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Hi Wintergold, Just been re reading this post and was wondering if you have a preference between SG, Kessler and Apex slalom boards? Also which 185 would you pick Kessler or SG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Willow 15, you know that we are talking about the top WC companies here, so I wouldn´t say that there is a winner. But of course there are differences in the concepts which according to personal taste might be an advantage or a disadvantage. For my personal opinon, I have sent you a PM ;) ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Feel free to PM me your thoughts on the comparison Wintergold. I have ridden a few different shorter Kesslers now, all without plates. A few things really stand out for me. The edge hold compared to other boards I have ridden is just amazing (these are the only top race boards I have ridden in the last couple of years). Hero (not as relevant) to bullet proof to spring conditions, the board excels. How much speed a 162 and 168 will handle while still being completely stable. These boards do anything I want in a turn, with precision. They complete turns just fine. I do catch air between quite a few turns on the 162 (less on the 168), but the rebound on the Kesslers is forward and into the next turn rather than up, like most other boards I have ridden. They make crappier snow conditions feel like hero. You don’t even know the snow conditions are bad until you step back on your other board (which for me was very similar in shape and materials to the Kessler). How incredibly fast the Kesslers are during and coming out of turns! It is dramatic. At first (and still on challenging terrain) I had a hard time keeping up with the board. I was often a little behind. In some aspects, the Kesslers are so forgiving, but overall this is a board that will require you to push yourself hard as a rider (unless you keep it on easy slopes) or it will kick your butt all over the hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Buell, I will happily comply (PM is on the way ...) By the way, everything you just posted is also true for an SG raceboard, which is no real surprise, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Buell, I will happily comply (PM is on the way ...) By the way, everything you just posted is also true for an SG raceboard, which is no real surprise, right? No surprise at all. I would love to try them too, but I can get custom Kesslers built for my lightweight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowkidd Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 can anyone tell me how much these things are? especially the apex. there is no specific retail price on their website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 For the "normal" production boards (no customization) the price is around 1000€ (for SG, Apex and Kessler) in Europe. Customs start around 1300€ - depending on what you want/need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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