AASI just maybe seeing the light...again

[Steve Prokopiw]

Again, as we saw the importance of carving in the late 80's and then pushed it aside in favor of jibbing and freestyle.Grownups,as I've always said,'were left out in the cold'.

Well,with Dave Espi being allowed to pass cert 1 and a few other bright spots like the Symposium I'm going to this weekend,it looks like carving might be coming back to AASI;even if it will be done on softies by most instructors.

The titles of the two clinics I will be taking at Mission Ridge this weekend are 'Trenchin It Out" which sounds like something my Mom might say;and 'All Mountain Riding',always a crowd favorite.

Fittingly, I will use the same board and boots for both just like the softbooters will.:)

[Phil]

Steve,

When was carving not a part of AASI? I realize that alpine/race specific equipment is ignored mostly, but carving has always been a part of it from what I have seen. Most of the examiners and L III's that I know would go into our poll as "Master Freecarvers" ;) (wink for bringing up the poll, not because the riders are not Masters). In the east, they still have carving events every year - of course I realize that the east also has more events than most. It is also still possible to pass Level II and Level III exams on alpine or race boards - if you can meet the standards. Maybe your division has a different feel?

All of this being said, I know some of the newer examiners are clueless when it comes to alpine issues.

Could you elaborate on where your view of them being in the dark comes from?

Thanks.

[Steve Prokopiw]

From personal experience; I watched for years as carving was less and less emphasized and more and more relegated to something treated as far less useful than a typical skidded turn.Same with the ability to ride moguls.

I've seen people who could carve extremely well all mountain fail cert 2 and 3 riding,and people who couldn't carve their way out of a paper bag pass.Sort of like getting a diploma without being able to read.

In fact, ski schools,most of which use PSIA/AASI as ther basis for acredibility all over the country have made sure hard boots and,or alpine were phased into near extinction.

I've seen over the years at least several examiners who did not or could not exibit high intensity carves.That's not to say that there are not some very good,even great riders that are examiners.Gregg Davis and the late Jeff Patterson come to mind among others.Edit;That said I agree that the East has more carving orientation than other divisions.

I will grant that the old guard have been more or less phased out and most examiners possess very up to date skills these days.That's half the reason I'm excited to see what's on tap for this weekend.But I stand by my personal impressions of the phasing out of carving and it's apparent comeback as a worthwhile pursuit.

[bobdea]

as far as I know AASI always has and hard boots have always allowed just discouraged.

anyone on anything resembling a snowboard should be able to pass level one. the requirement is a snowboard and a pulse. not even sure a pulse is mandatory, maybe just encouraged.

lev 2 is switch turns

basic carve, and I mean basic

fast skids basically, I think they called them dynamic

and some air

for lev 3 you have to be a pretty decent rider, carving is a big thing with both 2 and 3 AFAIK but you have to look at the limitations of some people's gear. specifically with people that have big feet and narrow boards.

with the switch and the bumps and the spins I think you COULD ride plates according to AASI because I know people that have done it just for 2 and particularly 3 it would be tough.

[Phil]

Your experience is a bummer.

I can assure you that in the east, you had better be good in the bumps. They seem to really be emphasized. In fact, switch bumps are emphasized as well (I thought that I remembered you saying that you had to do switch bumps at yours - I know a few others on here had to) I have never heard of anyone going and not having to carve well, either. By tomorrow I should have the full report on the exams this year as they are going on right now at Killington. I know one hardbooter who is there, but he is taking it in softies. There are at least six others that I know who are taking it, so I should be able to get a clear picture of what went down this year.

I had a great hardboot clientele until two years ago when my wife's job uprooted us from my old mountain. Now I don't see nearly as many. I have also stopped most of my teaching in hardboots because my knees cannot take kneeling/sitting with angles anymore. In fact, my 90 days on board this year were all on softies at some point in the day - I never made it a full day on hardboots. :( That is in direct contrast to previous years where I did the exact opposite.

At the same time, I have continued to make new converts regularly. Most are instructors, though, so they get free hardboot clinics as opposed to being paying customers.

[Phil]

For those who don't know, there are a handful of riders on Bomber that HAVE passed the Level III Exam on plates, be it on a race, alpine, or even a freeride board.

Some have even done so with aplomb.

[Phil]

That said I agree that the East has more carving orientation than other divisions.

I either missed that before or it was an edit. I would agree with that statement, although they are still not "alpine oriented" but they carve.

[Dave ESPI]

Steve, thanks for the props . There are a lot of us who really rip in softboots (such as myself) long before we ever put hardshells on our feet and swung to the right on the "Y" diagram and went from freeride "all mountain" to Alpine "Carvers". I for one have seen way too much emphasis on the far left (parkers) "freestyle" aspect of boarding, but it is what makes people want to become boarders in the first place.... "Cool factor", but that is only because it is what they see the most (media and videogames and on the slopes, etc). The legions of HB carvers is growing again.... I've seen this a lot this year, or perhaps my eyes are just more alert and "looking" for it. Someties there are those in hardboots, but riding big decks and you really have to look close to see they are indeed in HardBoots and Plate bindings.

Next year, Im following your lead (from Windham) and putting up "Extreme carve" lesson flyers in hopes of some Private request and upper level rider lessons. Ive come a long way this year having spent the better half of my season in hardboots for atleast the mornings on many days, or entire weekends, and it improved my style and skill a lot going out and just watching other hardbooters and seeing how they tackle conditions and situations. One of the key things AASI teach is that people learn in many different ways, and being a good instructor means you can communicate and connect on multiple levels with students and other boarders alike.

that being said......... .... :AR15firinBob.

as far as I know AASI always has and hard boots have always allowed just discouraged.

anyone on anything resembling a snowboard should be able to pass level one. the requirement is a snowboard and a pulse. not even sure a pulse is mandatory, maybe just encouraged.

lev 2 is switch turns

basic carve, and I mean basic

fast skids basically, I think they called them dynamic

and some air

for lev 3 you have to be a pretty decent rider, carving is a big thing with both 2 and 3 AFAIK but you have to look at the limitations of some people's gear. specifically with people that have big feet and narrow boards.

with the switch and the bumps and the spins I think you COULD ride plates according to AASI because I know people that have done it just for 2 and particularly 3 it would be tough.

You know Bob, you really need to shut the fuck up sometimes as all that comes out of your mouth is pure rubbish.

Why dont you take a level 1 exam and see what it really is all about or atleast read the manual before sitting down on the computer and speuing bull sh it.

The only thing you are correct about is that Level 3 is damn near impossible to do in hardboots under current AASI requirements. Some people just "skate" thru their exam, but if you actualy get a good examiner, they will put you thru the proper paces and make sure you EARN said title.

seriously... STFU ... please.

[carvedog]

The only thing you are correct about is that Level 3 is damn near impossible to do in hardboots under current AASI requirements. Some people just "skate" thru their exam, but if you actualy get a good examiner, they will put you thru the proper paces and make sure you EARN said title.

Dave - dude, why we do need the hate? We don't

I used to be an examiner and the politics and mandatory freestyle requirements moved me away from AASI. I'm not even a member anymore and really don't give a shiite about it. I learned quite a bit while in, but it seems to come with a pretty high price at times. You undoubtedly know what clinic ass is?

Give me a break though - switch bumps, 360s - I don't care. I actually rode an asym Mistral for most of my level 3 - and I did ride it switch in the bumps just to prove a point. I have not done, and don't really feel inclined to try, a 360. Does that make me not a level 3 rider? Such crap.

I am getting close to 50 :eek:, does that mean because I am not willing to attempt some of the more "athletic" (read aerial manuevers) requirements, that I should be put out to pasture?

Because I choose to ride 50 degree angles ( not so conducive to switch although I still play at it ), not able to do movement analysis on a freeballer?

Last year at the end of the year a skier buddy and I went to hit some "corn" bumps. We were about oh..... 3 hours too early. My buddy Scott knew that I am good to go any conditions any time and didn't think much about it.

The run was entirely frozen chickenheads on a very steep bump run. Ggggnaarly. I didn't go fast but linked turns down the whole thing somehow without falling.

We were both laughing at the bottom about the "corn". He says to me "I hope no one saw you go down that, cuz you made it look pretty good and most people would die on that." He still talks about it.

That is what level 3 is about, to me, as much as any spinny bs that can be put into an exam.

There are only a couple of examiners that I have ridden with (and I been to symposiums with other divs too) that I would consider Master Freecarvers.

Some great riders, but you have to have a love affair with the carve to live there.

Discuss.

[Steve Prokopiw]

We must have been brothers from another mother.My short term as an examiner left me with a similar taste in my mouth except;I love freestyle and jibbing.But I hated seeing it all go one direction because of fashion.That's not say that softies aren't better for some things or that hardboots are the holy grail.It just seemed to go the way of 'you can pick any color you want as long it's brown and wears soft boots.

I agree wholeheartedly that the organization took too much emphasis away from real world ,all mountain skills and put too much on jibbing.Now there's a push to get adults into rails and boxes(way more dangerous than rails in my opinion).I do them but I don't see as much need or even demand for that as I do for embracing carving,both alpine and soft,in order to get adults into the lesson fold beyond just turning both ways and stopping and then never taking another lesson.

I pushed for years to get a 'parallel certification' to cert 3 to keep great and knowledgable 'mature' instructors in the professional loop.Instead of squashing their credibility and income power with arbitrarily difficult and dangerous maneuvers designed soley to pander to the under 20 male we should have had more options for continuing professional development.

The carving community stands at the precipice of an emerging market if AASI and resorts will pull their collestive heads out and sieze the opportunity.

[Dave ESPI]

Carvedog, re-read my post, I was actualy giving props to the Examiners for not just saying "ok; lets just go out and ride around all day... oh and here is your level 3 certificate after lunch...."

I whole heartedly agree with you about the requirements and what makes a "Good" rider is not being able to throw massive airs and ride rails all day. I'm 32. Been riding since I was 17. I don't do half the stuff I used to at age 22. It hurts too much, and the risk is too high for all the other areas of life we have... careers, home, responsabilities, bills, etc. Staying out of the park has kept me out of the hospital and I learned that lesson the hard way in 2005.

If there needs to be a "uniform" way of riding and grading a level 3 person, it should be in the discipline they are focused on. Park, All-mountain, or Alpine. All the above is not exactly everyones' cup of tea. being able to do something, versus being able to explain HOW to do something and coach is what it is all about.

Atleast to me as a senior instructor that is. I've never thrown a corked out 720 with a mute grab over a 80 foot kicker, nor do I care to, but I'd like to know HOW to teach someone the mechanics of it, and being tested on such is what is important.

[philfell]

I've been out of the AASI loop for quite some time, but to add some history I passed my level 1 in '97 in soft boots, passed my level 2 in '97 entirely in hardboots, and passed my level 3 in '98 half in hardboots and half in soft boots.

[Dave ESPI]

I've been out of the AASI loop for quite some time, but to add some history I passed my level 1 in '97 in soft boots, passed my level 2 in '97 entirely in hardboots, and passed my level 3 in '98 half in hardboots and half in soft boots.

A lot has changed in the industry since then (aasi was created in 1993), and as has the technical ability and requirements for some of the stuff, but the core values and teaching tools remain the same with minor revisions. I believe they are on a SEVENTH ed. of the handbook at this point in time. Id be curious to see what has changed.

Also, "Passing" with a 65 while indeed is acceptable, doing it well and with high marks is not always attained. I know a few people who are level 3 and can't complete a turn or stay on a box to save their life, but are nonetheless Level 3 certified and are superb instructors.

EDIT: If they gave the option to switch gear out for various parts of the exam, It would make it much more likely to get Level 3, but they usualy want you on the same gear for the duration of the time start to finish (or atleast that is what I was told).

[philfell]

I just wanted to put my experience.

I thought the wording in the OP was odd.....you were "allowed" to pass your level one exam.....Either you were good enough to pass it or you were not. Who would be "allowing" you to have the skills required to pass?

The criteria is set, you know what you have to do. No one allows you to pass you earn it or you don't.

Keep in mind that instructing is one thing and coaching is another thing. Sometimes they overlap, but sometimes they differ. Going through the steps to teach someone to do a 720 cork is more coaching.

[carvedog]

Carvedog, re-read my post, I was actualy giving props to the Examiners for not just saying "ok; lets just go out and ride around all day... oh and here is your level 3 certificate after lunch...."

I was commenting on the what you said after ripping Bobdea a new one. About agreeing with him on not being able to/ or almost impossible to pass level 3 in hbs.

And believe me when Bob was in his anti-Burner stage, he made my ignore list, so I don't worship at his altar. Sorry Bob. You seem to have mellowed a bit since and I have been enjoying your contributions fwiw.

But he pretty much hit the requirements right on the head of what the stages are. I don't know why he gets a STFU for that.

Atleast to me as a senior instructor that is. I've never thrown a corked out 720 with a mute grab over a 80 foot kicker, nor do I care to, but I'd like to know HOW to teach someone the mechanics of it, and being tested on such is what is important.

I couldn't disagree more. If you are on the FS path, that might be. But I am not and don't choose to.

In our school we do have a separate clinic for those who want to teach pipe and park. You are not allowed to teach freestyle unless you go.

I always volunteer for those clinics when they are looking. It gets a laugh.

Not having done anything on the ski side accred wise, are skiers required to do switch bumps and 360 air?

Steve - mom always did like you best. That's prolly why you like freestyle more. Can't wait till we get to burn some turns. Next season? Unless I have to sell all my stuff to save the house. :angryfire:angryfire

I went to National Congress twice and we talked a lot about the different paths to accreditation. but the money ( and certs ) follows the baggy pantsers. Oh well.

[bobdea]

from http://www.psia-e.org/ed/aasi/AASIExamGuideII-III.pdf

now, Dave espi, I did not mean you when I wrote what I did.

I put in over a decade in the industry, mostly in mountain ops but also in retail and in skier/rider dev.

I stayed out of your thread about your level 1 cert because I specifically did not want to piss in your cheerios.

I went so far as to even say to someone in a IM who brought your post up that I try not to piss on you too much because I think you're way out there but a nice guy. I used to give you more **** and I've honestly tried to tone it down because I think your heart is in the right place.

It's getting really hard not to give you the treatment that people divebomber around here.

Please, hit the ignore button or just realise I say what I think and I'm not new to the game. I also have made more than one AASI/PSIA uncomfortable with the things that I say.

Now, to the pulse comment. sunday river used to take people who had hardly and in some cases never skied or ridden before on work visas in november to work as instructors for never evers and by march get them their level 1 cert.

I made a snarky comment about the practice to one of the higher ups that I'd gotten to know and his response was that for never evers it does not take that much and they are more worried about someone who is able communicate and articulate very well while teaching more than any ability level beyond the basics for the majority of lessons given.

I myself have tought and I know a few examiners.

I'f I'd had more time and drank less when I was 18 I'd be certified for adaptive skiing programs because that's where my heart is and what I'd find the most rewarding and be willing to take the lack of hours to do. I've always been doing something else and for the next 15 years I'll have a daughter taking up my weekend time so I guess I dropped the ball.

haha, the burners, never was anti burner. I think it's stupid to more for them used than they retailed originally and also more for them used than used metal boards are going for.

There's some specifics about it too that I was watching someone pick them up and turn them over at really inflated prices, when they got called on it they'd delete the thread and relist the same board under a alias then delete the thread when it sold.

burners were awesome a decade ago but some here were leading n00bs to believe things about them that were not true.

was trying to set the record straight.

Anyway, Dave if you want to have a slap fest with me I'll go a few easy rounds but otherwise I'm not in the mood right now.

[bobdea]

BTW, anyone who could rock lev 3 on plates has my admiration and respect because I could not do lev 3 on plates.

the bumps, switch and some of the air for 3 on plates up to par with what they want I could not do on plates. Softboots, IDK, probably. On plates if the conditions suck in the bumps (glazed) I go into survival mode and it's not pretty. soft I am alright.

I'm not a killer rider, when I put in 5 days a week and am in great shape I can be competent anywhere but have gotten the most comments banging out lines in the woods or charging spring corn.

[Phil]

I pushed for years to get a 'parallel certification' to cert 3 to keep great and knowledgable 'mature' instructors in the professional loop.Instead of squashing their credibility and income power with arbitrarily difficult and dangerous maneuvers designed soley to pander to the under 20 male we should have had more options for continuing professional development.

What do you HAVE to do at a L III that is so dangerous for the geriatrics among us? Again, I find that the exams are pretty balanced. I just got off the phone earlier with the hardbooter that I mentioned above. He finished his exam (in softies) today. He was telling me that there ended up being five main modules that were brought up: Carving (on blacks FWIW), bumps, pipe, trees, and switch. That all seems pretty well balanced to me.

If there needs to be a "uniform" way of riding and grading a level 3 person, it should be in the discipline they are focused on.

I respectfully disagree with this. We are just instructors at resorts. We are not at the top of any discipline. That is what coaches are for. We are to be the "jack of all trades, master of none". The L III exam modules I listed above cover a lot of bases, but don't force anyone to specialize. If you want to specialize, they have freestyle accreds for that. Unfortunately, there is no "carving accred", but remember, AASI does not lead an industry, it tries to follow it and give its membership the tools to do the same.

A lot has changed in the industry since then (aasi was created in 1993), and as has the technical ability and requirements for some of the stuff, but the core values and teaching tools remain the same with minor revisions. I believe they are on a SEVENTH ed. of the handbook at this point in time. Id be curious to see what has changed.

AASI was created in 1997 and the AASI handbook is in its second edition (first released in 1998 and then released in 2007). Dave, no big deal, but knowing this stuff may help at some point when you rock the hardboots for your Level II.

As far as technical ability and requirements (assuming you are talking to Phil Fell) I don't know how much they have really changed from his time. He was strongly discouraged from taking his Level III in hardboots because of what the exam entailed (this by the examiner he ended up having at the exam), but did it anyway. He went on to kill it at the exam. (Phil Fell correct me if I am wrong) It wasn't easy then either. Go back a few years from there, and it did get easier. They had to start somewhere, and sometimes it was not with the best riders. In my early days, I heard a lot of "I did not really like _______ PSIA (snowboarding) event. I was better than the clinician/examiner" Since the inception of AASI, I have heard that less and less and have rarely heard it at all in the last 8 years or so. It seems that those who were less talented riders either faded away, got better, or went unnoticed because of how well they teach and/or coach.

EDIT: If they gave the option to switch gear out for various parts of the exam, It would make it much more likely to get Level 3, but they usualy want you on the same gear for the duration of the time start to finish (or atleast that is what I was told).

I don't see what the advantage to this would be. I have seen and heard where the guy on the freestyle board was asked to teach in the gates and the guy on plates had to teach in the park. Again, it is about being a jack of all trades.

Keep in mind that instructing is one thing and coaching is another thing. Sometimes they overlap, but sometimes they differ. Going through the steps to teach someone to do a 720 cork is more coaching.

Exactly, and this is something from a FS accred, not a Level III.

Not having done anything on the ski side accred wise, are skiers required to do switch bumps and 360 air?

No. I think that it is a real shame that Ski certs are totally about turning. I strongly believe that PSIA is not following the industry. Skiing switch, small jumps and easy (low consequence) rails/boxes, should be in the exams IMO. PSIA needs some young blood to revive a geriatric system.

[Steve Prokopiw]

All good points, but on the subject of geriatrics;I've met and know some 'geriatrics' who harbor no illusions of passing cert 3 riding but are fantastic instructors who would benefit from some other type of accred that might expand their knowledge base without demanding they go back in time physiacally.I also know one who probably should not have passed as his demos are not what seems to be the intensity required for cert 3,but they gave it to him after three tries.Good for him,not so good for consistency of standards.

I agree that the skill level of most trainers/examiners has risen over the years.The double standard of examiners requiring demos that they themselves cannot do well happens less and less.Still, most of my gripes the last few years have been to do with what I have seen up here in the Northwest division.The kind of stuff that reduces participaton and ruins credibility(although up here $ cost reduces participation more than anything) .Things seem to be improving overall,however, and that was the main point of my original post.

[Dave ESPI]

Phill I stand corrected; and yet vindicated.....

AASI was official in 1997 as a recognised sub-division "Brand" and it was initiated in 1993 by PSIA with a manual called "SNOWBOARDskiing" but only realised as a viable "Certification Program" by resorts in the early 2000's. Saddly, things again are not as they were back in the early stages as it was still in the devlopmental stages, and took a few years to become honed to what it is now almost (almost as many years as I've been riding) 17 years later.

Bob pissed in my cornflakes ( and many others in the past) and I've yet to IGNORE a single person on the forums as I feel everyone has a valid poinnt (albeit as absurd as some are) and let slide many of his comments in other threads. I hate the internet for a lot and love it for the same reasons..... saddly, they are yin and yang.

\Lord knows I have my moments of poop post too. but It is not just a "pulse and a plank strapped to their feet." that gives people certifications, let alone doing it well.

Perhaps I took an afront since I put a good effort in to represent the hardbooter contingentcy in such a forum of learning and prowess, but I feel if you are good at something, show it and do it right.. not "just passing".

Hope that makes sense.

cheers,

D.

[Phil]

I think that the hardbooters who have passed higher levels of cert have not "just passed" by any means. It takes a serious hardbooter to even consider taking the exam.

I would encourage you to take this attitude and continue to your higher exams. It would be great to see someone pass a Level III in the east on hardboots. It would be even better to see it on a race board. It has been a few years since it has been done and I hear that the last guy was a real goober. ;)

Be the future of hardbooting in AASI - my hat will be off to you.

[noschoolrider]

The AASI Northwest Division’s Snowboard Exam Certification Guide is at the following link:

http://www.psia-nw.org/alpine-certification/snowboard/snowboard-certification-downloads/

If you read pages 12 through 21 you will see that the Level 1 exam is not as easy as some would lead you to believe, and it is not just given out to everybody who shows up.

I worked as an Examiner and Divisional Clinic Leader in the Northwest Division for 6 years. During that time I worked primarily as a Level 2 and 3 examiner and an exam prep clinician, and I helped create the study and certification guides and the written exams.

However, I also administered Level 1 exams to more than 500 candidates and approximately 10 percent of those candidates failed the Level 1 exam (about 70 percent of them failed the written exam and the others failed the riding exam). I can’t speak for other divisions but in Northwest Division the Level 1 certification has never been just given to a person who shows up – you have to earn it by passing a ‘real’ riding exam and a 40 question written test.

[bobdea]

Bob pissed in my cornflakes ( and many others in the past) and I've yet to IGNORE a single person on the forums as I feel everyone has a valid poinnt (albeit as absurd as some are) and let slide many of his comments in other threads. I hate the internet for a lot and love it for the same reasons..... saddly, they are yin and yang.

D.

christ, it's really effing hard not to tear you apart right now.

what I let slide when you say things that are sooo wrong. I now feel like to tool though because I was sort of defending you the other day in a IM.

I'm not the only one who feels you're out to lunch,I've had this conversation with three people, and that's putting it very gently.

now, I have been told when I'm wrong on this forum by people who know, you're not one of them.

Now, back to AASI, it's a product of the industry as a whole. as much as I make fun of them and have issue with them they HAVE done a better job staying current compared to the ski program.

OHH BTW plates and AASI around 2000 a clinic was done where they put a bunch of the softboot instructors on plates and alpine rigs for a few hours. was hilarious.

[philfell]

Phil you are pretty much right on with my experience.

I was told by many people when I took my level 3 not to do it in hardboots. The test then was one day rideing assesment and one day teaching assesment. I did the riding portion in my hardboot mostly out of spite to show that it can be done in hardboots. Rails weren't around much at resorts so we didn't ride rails, but we did ride the HP and had to ride switch off piste at Snowbird, I can't remember exactly, but I think I was riding an F2 Speedster SL board. I didn't just barely pass, I did so with flying colors, out of the 10 people taking the exam I was one of the four that passed the riding.

I choose to do the teaching portion in softies because at that level of instructing I felt I needed to be on soft boots in order to properly teach what I wanted to teach the group. I, not aasi, made this decision. I was the only person to pass the teaching portion, thus the only person that year to get their level 3 cert in the intermountain division. And at the time I think I was the youngest level 3 in the country (I was 19 years old).

The reason I stopped going to AASI clinics was a differance of opinion and direction around 2000. It had nothing to do with their stance on hardboots. Actually I felt that the guys giving the clinics were psyched to see someone on hard boots do the requirements in hardboots. It mostly had to do with the ultra effeciency they were pushing. I felt it was too much, snowboarding is a youthfull sport most people taking lessions are younger and full of energy, they don't want to go down the hill as stagnate as possible they want to charge. I think my final comment at the last clinic I took was something along the lines of....."If all you want to teach is being the most efficient rider, why event teach a turn, just heelside sideslip everything and that is the most efficient way to get down the mountain".

I still see clinics from time to time, and it still echos much of what was being said when I took the exam. You may think a lot has changed but it hasn't.

Also yes AASI came from PSIA a SKI organization......Where the hell else was it going to come from we were at SKI areas and working for SKI SCHOOLS, it was common to not be allowed on all trails and snowboarding was too unorganized at the time to pull off a professional organization of their own at the time.

[Steve Prokopiw]

and more positive light after the symposium this weekend.

Philfel,I agree about the static appearance of the riding image.I still see that a bit.It seems in their quest to present a unified image that hundreds of robots were created.That seems to be changing as well.Much of what I see in their vids does not exibit much liveliness though. Plenty of control though.

I personally feel that hardboots on a freeride board are a logical choice in a cert exam.The requirements for 2 and 3 are not beyond the abilities of a skilled all mountain hardbooter.

BTW,I've mentioned before,but I received freestyle accred in 04 while on hardboots.That was the first or second time it was held and it was in the 'big park' at Vail.All 40 of us had to use the same features which wouldn't happen now.Whether you got fundemental or advanced depended on what you pulled on the features.The two guys that could pull more than 5's got advanced,the rest of us fundemental.It was three days and was run very much like an exam.I was technically still an examiner at the time but had been out of the loop so I decided to get back in by showing what I'd been doing with my boots while out.The highest marks or compliments I received were for my teaching segment,but I did get some 'holy craps' from the advanced guys for the Indy 3's and oldschool combo grabs I was pulling in the superpipe and over the big kicker:)