UPZ RC10 vs. Deeluxe Track 700

[Michael Pukas]

What the hell is wrong with a traditional overlap boot

That's been my beef w/ alpine snowboard (AS) boot design for the past decade - where did this tongue design idea come from, and why? Why does an AS boot have to be so significantly different than a ski boot? Sure it's got to do some things a little bit differently, but not so differently that it warrants an entirely different design.

One could take latest and greatest freestyle ski or ski mountaneering boot (prolly not a race boot - too stiff to start with) and;

• change the sole design to be shorter and accept toe & heel bails bails and Fin-tecs
  
• soften the forward flex and increase the range of motion
  
• have an adustable ski-walk mode mechanism (like the UPZ for a start) that can be swapped out for a BTS if desired
  
• beef up the lateral stablity, if need be, but I doubt it
  
• make two different models w/ different durometers of plastic - one stiffer than the other
  
• There's probably a couple other things....

I like Fin's idea of a boot shell that flexes freely @ the ankle with resistance and length of travel controlled by a machanical device - an ideal device would be something adjustable like the BTS that has a ski-walk mode.

[ohiomoto]

I agree, but I think a "soft" race boot of 130 flex or below would work fine. As a matter of fact the Dobermann boots I'm skiing right now would be prefect if it had an adjustable forward lean and a BTS.

There are four t-nut/bolts that hold the upper shell to the lower shell. Two at the pivot point on either side and two right above the heal that runs along the Achilles tendon. These can be removed to allow for a softer flex. If you remove both, the boot will pivot forward freely. The lower shell has a shelf that keeps the boot from moving rearward. That could be ground down to allow a more up right stance. Now if it were possible to put a BTS on there I think I would have a boot that would be pretty soft compared to the RTR I'm in now. Hell, I could even chamfer the bottom of the the toe and heal to make it look like a snowboard boot. :)

[bobdea]

That's been my beef w/ alpine snowboard (AS) boot design for the past decade - where did this tongue design idea come from, and why? Why does an AS boot have to be so significantly different than a ski boot? Sure it's got to do some things a little bit differently, but not so differently that it warrants an entirely different design.

One could take latest and greatest freestyle ski or ski mountaneering boot (prolly not a race boot - too stiff to start with) and;

• change the sole design to be shorter and accept toe & heel bails bails and Fin-tecs
  
• soften the forward flex and increase the range of motion
  
• have an adustable ski-walk mode mechanism (like the UPZ for a start) that can be swapped out for a BTS if desired
  
• beef up the lateral stablity, if need be, but I doubt it
  
• make two different models w/ different durometers of plastic - one stiffer than the other
  
• There's probably a couple other things....

I like Fin's idea of a boot shell that flexes freely @ the ankle with resistance and length of travel controlled by a machanical device - an ideal device would be something adjustable like the BTS that has a ski-walk mode.

you just described the burton fire and wind.

BTW where the tongue design comes from in raichle/deeluxe boots and UPZ is the raichle flexon ski boot.

the head boots are a overlap boot still, even come in a ski model.

[LeeW]

It's pretty awkward to get in and out of UPZs. But, as noted above, that's only a couple minutes at the start and end of the day.

Don't you hate it when you're riding (or skiing, which was the case for me), that your ankle starts to itches and you're too keenly aware it's a major PITA to get 'em off -just- to scratch that itchy spot ?

:lol:

[kitu]

Hi!

I've used Burton Reactor, Burton Fire and now using UPZ Virus Special Edition.. Points goes to Burtons - too bad (from harbooter with rather wide front foot and rather thin ankle and bones, but big volume bones in ankles)

Best combination to ride has been the Fire with Burton Physics race. Very stiff binding to boot hold and no movement side to side, connection to board was like magic. Had to get rid off the Fire's because of shell's cracking.. (Had them bootfitted, a bit more volume to toe parts and a Comformable Alpine thermo liners. Good liners, but rather thin, anyway very good fitting shell even with that very thin liner. Had to make more padding to the liners tongue, as a hint of shin bang started to show..)

Most comfortable boots were the Reactor's, no kind of molding to shell or liner, and a perfect fit. Very poor bindings to boot connection, which made me to move to step-in's and Fires.

Now UPZ RTR's (Virus) red ones for about 3-4 years with Deeluxe liners (thermo, black and white) and a shell bootfitting with Cinderella Fit to four places (now excellent fit but not on the shells tongue), and TD2 SI. Tried the Deeluxes before UPZ's in the shop and they vere too narror in toe part and a hint of heel lift..

UPZ have very stiff shell, and shin bang results very easily - at least to me. Mondo 28 - as Burtons - but the shell is a lot worsely designed than the Burtons. When fitted without liner, foot seems to be too far behind in the shell and a result is that the shin attaches tongue in a small angle only in the upper part of the tongue (so that the whole shin is not touching the tongue all the way from the lower part to the upper part)

Tried shintroric's (Manoove's), not helping a lot. Now Eliminator, a lot better. Booster Strap is rather good.. And have the old Burtons padding/clip added to upper part of the tongue.. I think I should have a Mondo 27 shell with a lot of moding, which might fit, and a more supportive tongue in a liner.

Might be that the over 10 years of usage of these various boots, and the changes in the foots too, that the boots require a lot of molding, but might be that not all the people have the ideal foot that the shell designers dreams of

[WinterGold]

I find it interesting that quite a lot of people look back favourably at the Burton boots. I also loved my Burtons (Reactor, Wind, different Fires), but on the slopes you saw Raichle/Deeluxe almost exclusively. I was never a fan of the older Raichle/Deeluxe models. From the alpinecarving site:

If you want to buy Raichle/DeeLuxe boots, get them used. The general consensus: because of problems with the buckles, the lean adjuster, and the cant adjuster, they are not worth their full retail price.

Which is (was?) quite true ...

And the same story could be told about the Northwave boots. Many World Cup riders have a stock of old Northwaves at home (not to mention the extremcarving community ...)

So why did Deeluxe survive and Burton/Northwave didn´t? It´s really sad for us.

One more thing - I´m pretty sure that the newer Deeluxe models (with the new buckles, etc.) are decent snowboard boots. But some years back it was a different story ...

[tenorman]

Luckily for me where Dan Yoya lives is about a four hour drive from me. Well worth it to be able to try on the boots, before you buy.

hi DAVE

upz has a big sale right now: http://www.upzboots.com/pricelist.html

DAN YOJA emailed me back and said stuff was selling fast and couldn't guarantee holding stuff for me until i passed through on the way to the vernon dh skateboard race on june 13th.

i just sent him payment a few hours ago with instructions not to ship the boots but to just hold a pair of size 26 for me until i can stop by on my way to vernon on june 13th. hopefully when i pick them up there will be at least one pair of size 27 remaining unsold so i can try both sizes on and take the one that fits best. otherwise, i'll have to pay a bootfitter to punch out the size 26 boots or amputate my longest toes if the size 26 prove to be too small. the new style stock upz liner looks interesting with the flow around filler material. looks like i'll be able to downsize without resorting to a thermal liner with an inadequate cuff.